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Thread: Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

  1. #926
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    Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

    Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
    IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


    TLM
    See Page 63 of linked PDF.
    Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

    http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod...l_evidence.pdf

    Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
    Link
    At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

    Or*
    transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
    http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty%20Transcript.pdf
    I have copied in from the PDF.
    (LE) JOHNSON:
    so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
    RAFFERTY: uh
    JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
    RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
    JOHNSON: did ya
    RAFFERTY: and that’s when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
    JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

    RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then that’s when...

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  3. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macright View Post
    just to clarify...<modsnip>...I do not think he kidnapped...raped...or murdered TS....I do believe he helped with the coverup and the disposal and of course hid those facts from LE until he was arrested...I do not know if at that time he related this to LE because it has not been mentioned...


    respectfully....JMO JMO...
    So ... in between covering up, disposing of the body and hiding his involvement ... you aren't sure he had something to do with Victoria's death because "it has not been mentioned ..."?

    He may as well be 6 feet under for all he has to contribute. I hope he is never released He seems so slimy and under-handed. I also wonder how the rest of the family is coping.

    I liked MR's moms' shirt. She reminds a bit of Scott Peterson's mother. She was dark haired and wore dark sunglasses. One dragged an oxygen tank around for a while, a bit like a cane. I see them as defeated women that don't want to admit it. She seems to be motoring for a woman with a cane.

    I should apologize for commenting on the family of the accused, but this does speak to the eye witness testimony on the evening of the murder and what the accused was like that evening. Since the mother has chosen to come forth with opinions about innocence and justice, I think that she should be willing to even answer questions about her son on the night of the murder. When Morgan Harrington went missing, her family revealed the good with the bad and hoped for the best.



    RefL CTV

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  5. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmman View Post
    I cannot even bring myself to comment on his mother...I probably would be banned from here

    I will say this: I am a mother to an 8 yr old son. I will start praying harder that I am raising him to be of good morals & judgement. I hope he's of good character & has the strength to never be duped by the likes of TLM.

    Good grief!! I feel like I'm sitting on my hands here & biting my tongue like never before!
    I think that, as a parent, it's reasonable to look at the accused kidnapper/rapist/murderer's background and wonder what went wrong. Naturally, it's not going to be flattering.

    As for the 8 year old, sign him up for the rowing team ... that will be just as effective as all the good one does as a parent for 18 years. The only other thing I know about parenting is to be sure to help your children become the best that they can be.

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  7. #929
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    When I watch MR's family in the media cameras, I think that they know that he is the type of guy that could have done this to Victoria.

    What an all round tragic event. We have McClintic, a child of prostitution that was given to another woman who became a pharmaceuticals addict. McClintic became an addict and sought out other addicts. She foud MR, who was not only an addict, but an addict that had others pay for his addiction (escort hook up). In the middle, we have a single mom with a little girl, 8 hear old Victoria Stafford.

    Perhaps TLM and/or MR knew, or saw Victoria Stafford before the murder. Who knows if the she was targeted or not. The bottom line is that TLM grabbed her off the street, led her to MR's car, they dorve around, got high,
    Last edited by otto; 05-08-2012 at 05:24 AM.

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  9. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple1 View Post
    Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

    Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
    IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


    TLM
    See Page 63 of linked PDF.
    Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

    http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod...l_evidence.pdf

    Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
    Link
    At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

    Or*
    transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
    http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty%20Transcript.pdf
    I have copied in from the PDF.
    (LE) JOHNSON:
    so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
    RAFFERTY: uh
    JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
    RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
    JOHNSON: did ya
    RAFFERTY: and thatís when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
    JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

    RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then thatís when...
    good catch! MOO
    As always, JMO

    Evil is; as evil does.


    Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
    Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....

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  11. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    When I watch MR's family in the media cameras, I think that they know that he is the type of guy that could have done this to Victoria.
    it is in the googley eyes. MOO
    As always, JMO

    Evil is; as evil does.


    Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
    Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....

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  13. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Derstine didn't have too much to say (even though he took all day).

    He soley focused on TLM, while skimming over the culpability of his client's actions and inacations.

    He avoided speaking about much of the forensics, that the Crown will focus on, no doubt.

    All the pings, video, corroborating evidence - not much said, eh?

    What can you say about all that, really? It's all circumstantial, hard, corroborating evidence to TLM's testimony.

    You can't deny that Derstine, so, best not talk about it, really.

    That blood, you know, the "proof" that Tori was in the car (really? that's ALL that was? *sickening*). Not much to say about that, eh?

    The OTHER blood, you know, the stuff that was all mixed up, your client's and the victims? What was that from, just another Michael Rafferty Day?

    Just because you client did a good job getting rid of evidence of his assault, witholding evidence, lying, and criminally, yes, criminally, participating in an unspeakable crime, does NOT make him innocent.

    I bet he enjoys the song and tap-dance you did in the courtroom today, Derstine. I bet he is thrilled that he has someone on his side, who through silence and shifting blame, is defending him, the alleged child rapist and murderer. Hell, you may have even convinced HIM that he didn't do it, he wants to get out so bad.

    I have faith the Jury will see the facts in this case, and render their verdict according to the law, and bring Victoria Stafford the Justice her memory deserves.

    JMO

    So well said. Thanks. MOO
    As always, JMO

    Evil is; as evil does.


    Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
    Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....

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  15. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I think you are mistaken. Victoria's father cycled across the counrty to the Rocky Mountains to make sure that everyone was aware of this case.

    Trial updates are on the daily news across the country.
    yes and the major news is covering this and following this story for the last 3 years BECAUSE ppl in this country want to know what happened to TS; they want justice for her. MOO
    As always, JMO

    Evil is; as evil does.


    Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
    Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....

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  17. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by puppyraiser View Post
    I am having a very difficult time believing MR did NOT know he was part of a kidnapping very early on for one very simple reason: If Tori was told she was going to see a puppy, her mom, friend, (insert whatever excuse TLM gave) etc she would almost certainly start to say something or question once they hit the 401. And if she couldn't see the HWY, then it's true she was being forced to hide. Kids know that's the way out of town to somewhere else. 8 year olds can stay quiet only so long, it's their nature to be chatty. IMO MR had more than enough time and opportunity to right the wrong and he chose to keep driving.
    yes would TS not have voiced her displeasure at "heyyyy where are those puppies you told me you had" when she got to the car. Did MTR miss that? MOO
    As always, JMO

    Evil is; as evil does.


    Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
    Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....

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  19. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple1 View Post
    Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

    Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
    IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


    TLM
    See Page 63 of linked PDF.
    Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

    http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod...l_evidence.pdf

    Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
    Link
    At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

    Or*
    transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
    http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty%20Transcript.pdf
    I have copied in from the PDF.
    (LE) JOHNSON:
    so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
    RAFFERTY: uh
    JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
    RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
    JOHNSON: did ya
    RAFFERTY: and thatís when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
    JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

    RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then thatís when...
    Excellent point. This was a rehearsed detail from both of them. I wonder if the detail about "hearing the helicopters" was another aspect of MR's story he told to friends when he discussed the case with them, I mean, in addition to the whole drug-debt thing. JMO

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  21. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple1 View Post
    Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

    Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
    IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


    TLM
    See Page 63 of linked PDF.
    Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

    http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod...l_evidence.pdf

    Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
    Link
    At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

    Or*
    transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
    http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty%20Transcript.pdf
    I have copied in from the PDF.
    (LE) JOHNSON:
    so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
    RAFFERTY: uh
    JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
    RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
    JOHNSON: did ya
    RAFFERTY: and thatís when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
    JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

    RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then thatís when...
    The closing with the defence was based on TLM's whole testimony as being lies, or I should say what the defence is calling lies, except for one piece that fits for them, so they believe that one!!!!!....reviewing what you posted above reminds us all that MR told quite a few himself....why...becuase he is GUILTY. The duo were really 2 peas in a pod.

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  23. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    The sad thing is ... What if his story is true ...
    If his story is true, he still didn't do ANYTHING stop the savage murder of this girl, he had numerous opportunity to stop it. He could have refused to let her in his car to start with, he could have refused to drive anywhere TLM wanted him to, he could have done many many things and the truth is he didn't. He could have helped LE find Tori's body, he could have come forward before TLM confessed, HE DIDN'T. He is as guilty as she is!!!!!!!!!! I still wouldn't want him living in my neighbourhood knowing all this.
    Our memories shape us, providing a backdrop for our daily lives, a context for our actions, a rationale for our sometimes dubious decisions. Who we are today is inextricably woven through with memories of who we were yesterday, and the days before that.

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  25. #938
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    She Reminds me of Scott Petersen's Mom also:

    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    So ... in between covering up, disposing of the body and hiding his involvement ... you aren't sure he had something to do with Victoria's death because "it has not been mentioned ..."?

    He may as well be 6 feet under for all he has to contribute. I hope he is never released He seems so slimy and under-handed. I also wonder how the rest of the family is coping.

    I liked MR's moms' shirt. She reminds a bit of Scott Peterson's mother. She was dark haired and wore dark sunglasses. One dragged an oxygen tank around for a while, a bit like a cane. I see them as defeated women that don't want to admit it. She seems to be motoring for a woman with a cane.

    I should apologize for commenting on the family of the accused, but this does speak to the eye witness testimony on the evening of the murder and what the accused was like that evening. Since the mother has chosen to come forth with opinions about innocence and justice, I think that she should be willing to even answer questions about her son on the night of the murder. When Morgan Harrington went missing, her family revealed the good with the bad and hoped for the best.



    RefL CTV
    Good comparison--head in the sand and also has a prop (ie MR's mom with a cane SP's mom with oxygen tank) Also both MR and SP are their youngest "do no wrong" sons......interesting comparison.

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