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Thread: TN - Joann Bain, 14 y.o. daughter deceased; 2 missing, Hardeman, 27 Apr 2012 -#2

  1. #801
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    I am guessing his motivation is to keep what he thinks is his bio child (or children). Maybe he thought that the mother would go alone with his plan to be together but she refused.
    Just my opinion

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  3. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by krkrjx View Post
    Well, death is a serious bodily injury.

    Maybe they were bound and gagged, or duct taped then hidden under blankets. And suffocated that way.
    It's possible they suffocated, but then again, why the mother and older daughter and not the younger two children? If the victims were tied up and gagged, it's easier for a young child to suffocate than for an adult, I would think. And I think it's the younger two children he was interested in keeping.
    Just my opinion

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  5. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by BeginnersLuck View Post
    Quoting my own post here, I don't beleive 90% of what this woman says!

    I believe AM was a deadbeat and I beleive her sister was slow but that's about it.

    Sounds like she is trying to cover her own butt and her sisters. I would be furious at her if I was the Bain family.
    I have to say, I do think TM was coerced into this. Her mug shot looks like a person who is truly upset. Her hair has been recently dyed,yet she is left behind holding the bag. Suppose AM did out and out murder Jo Ann and Adrienne. Who wouldn't be in fear for their life?

    I also think that AM probably did tell TM that the kids were his and made her think he was having an affair with JB. Doesn't mean it was so, but I've known plenty of people who would make up that kind of thing to try and keep someone under their control ("I could leave you in a minute, she'd take me.")
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

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  7. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    It's possible they suffocated, but then again, why the mother and older daughter and not the younger two children? If the victims were tied up and gagged, it's easier for a young child to suffocate than for an adult, I would think. And I think it's the younger two children he was interested in keeping.
    Maybe only mom and daughter were gagged...and put in a separate car from the younger ones, who didn't know there was a problem at first so they didn't have to be restrained the way the other two were.

    What I really think, though, is that he killed them. They made noise, so he silenced them. I find it hard to believe two people died accidentally.

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  9. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Her current husband is officially not the father of two older girls. And it's perfectly normal to spend a lot of time with children if he believed to be their (or one of them) father. It doesn't mean "grooming." Apparent adoration is also normal if he was spending a lot of time with the children in that case.
    Her current husband adopted those girls, though. There is nothing to indicate he didn't love them enough to protect them. And he let AM babysit his youngest too. So, if the supposed motivation for allowing this guy to be so close with the girls was because mommy knew that he could be the father of one or more of them, that doesn't explain why the dad allowed his daughters to spend so much time with them.

    IMO, it just shows that this man was very trusted family friend. Probably thought of as family. And that is often the situation with child molesters. It's how they gain access - they are charming and no one could imagine they could hurt a child, especially a child they seem to adore so much.

    Gosh, I feel like I need to take a shower just typing that. Did a little grossed out jerk of my shoulders right then!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roxye View Post
    You are correct and I could be wrong! I just pray to God I am not!
    I am deeply praying that you're not wrong either.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  11. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
    I keep wondering if Adrienne died of an untreated asthma attack and then Jo Ann totally lost it and started screaming at AM. Or maybe Jo Ann was sobbing over Adrienne triggered AM to kill her to make her be quiet.

    Hard to predict because I don't think AM was stable.

    Taking into account his FB comment about being up for two days, I wonder if he had bipolar disorder. Either undiagnosed and untreated or he was noncompliant with treatment (which is a common problem).
    Just a comment about the facebook post, I saw it also. Just wanted to mention it was posted by android, so I think he has a cell phone somewhere. I wonder if LE is getting any pings from it.

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  13. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Well, here's the thing. Early reports indicated that AM took at least one of the girls (maybe more) on trips alone to Mississippi. It was stated that he was a close family friend and around the family a lot.

    That to me is proof that he may have been grooming them.

    He has photos of the girls and photos of himself with them, on his FB. They seemed to adore him in those photos. That is how it starts with grooming behavior.

    It is also proof he felt that this man thought they were his children. Yes, he may of groomed them... but IMO groomed them to think that he was there father. I don't think he wanted to molest them, just 'own' them.
    There is a sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness, but of power. They speak more eloquently than ten thousand tongues. They are messengers of overwhelming grief.. and unspeakable love. --Washington Irving

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  15. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by krkrjx View Post
    Well, death is a serious bodily injury.

    Maybe they were bound and gagged, or duct taped then hidden under blankets. And suffocated that way.
    Yes, death is a serious bodily injury (I cracked a smile over that one). Perhaps they are using that phrase because they are not certain if Jo Ann and Adrienne were murder, or accidental death, so they cannot charge for their deaths yet.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

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  17. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    It's possible they suffocated, but then again, why the mother and older daughter and not the younger two children? If the victims were tied up and gagged, it's easier for a young child to suffocate than for an adult, I would think. And I think it's the younger two children he was interested in keeping.
    Well, if he was interested in keeping the younger two, he may not have bound and gagged them.

    Since his mother was arrested for transporting the family, perhaps he drove the younger two in another car while she drove the mom and older sister in the U-Haul? I know she said she transported mom and all three kids, but maybe she didn't, or maybe Adrienne and Joann were in the back, bound and gagged, while the two younger ones were in the front?

    I do get the impression that Adrienne and her mom died (either via accidental death in the back of a hot U-Haul or via outright murder), because they were in the way of his plans and he felt he had to get them out of the way some how. Being older, they were not as easy to control.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  19. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Well, if he was interested in keeping the younger two, he may not have bound and gagged them.

    Since his mother was arrested for transporting the family, perhaps he drove the younger two in another car while she drove the mom and older sister in the U-Haul? I know she said she transported mom and all three kids, but maybe she didn't, or maybe Adrienne and Joann were in the back, bound and gagged, while the two younger ones were in the front?

    I do get the impression that Adrienne and her mom died (either via accidental death in the back of a hot U-Haul or via outright murder), because they were in the way of his plans and he felt he had to get them out of the way some how. Being older, they were not as easy to control.
    You know, I'm not sure the mother was arrested for transporting them. Her affidavit has the same lines that TM's does, with TM's name in the transporting portion. It could be a typo, either way (maybe should say Mary Mayes not Teresa Mayes or maybe that whole section should not be there).

    "During a non-custodial interview with Teresa Mayes..."
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

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  21. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel View Post
    Yes, death is a serious bodily injury (I cracked a smile over that one). Perhaps they are using that phrase because they are not certain if Jo Ann and Adrienne were murder, or accidental death, so they cannot charge for their deaths yet.
    I don't believe death during kidnapping (even if not intentional) is going to be classified as "accidental."
    Just my opinion

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  23. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxye View Post
    It is also proof he felt that this man thought they were his children. Yes, he may of groomed them... but IMO groomed them to think that he was there father. I don't think he wanted to molest them, just 'own' them.
    You are certainly right. But I'm kind of trying to do a bit of amateur profiling here. The kind of person who kidnaps kids and kills another child or a parent in the process, rarely does so out of a misguided sense of paternity or non-sexual ownership. In fact, I can't really think of one such case.

    There is almost always some depredation going on and by that I mean sexual predation.

    Nevertheless, it is a thought provoking theory and one that just might have legs. If so, at least we know they won't be going through certain kinds of horror.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  25. #813
    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    That's what people thought of the monster who murdered Aliahna Lemmon. Until he decapitated her and stuffed body parts in his freezer as her sisters slept in another room.
    Sure, bring that up....
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  26. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxye View Post
    What I have seen so far has nothing to do with what you just posted. I was a molested child. What you just posted has nothing to do with this case. Thank you.
    I am sorry you were molested. My post wasn't meant to be disrespectful just providing documentation that pedophiles often think they are showing love. Please don't take it personal.

    We have no proof at this point what his motivation for kidnapping JB and her children.
    Always tell the truth. That way you don't have to remember what you said.--Mark Twain

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  28. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel View Post
    You know, I'm not sure the mother was arrested for transporting them. Her affidavit has the same lines that TM's does, with TM's name in the transporting portion. It could be a typo, either way (maybe should say Mary Mayes not Teresa Mayes or maybe that whole section should not be there).

    "During a non-custodial interview with Teresa Mayes..."
    Oops! You're right.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  30. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel View Post
    Sure, bring that up....
    I know, I really shouldn't have. I have become so cynical and hopeless with these cases!
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  32. #817
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    Maybe homicide is rare, but there are plenty of cases where fathers kidnapped their kids from bio-moms.
    Just my opinion

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  34. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    I don't believe death during kidnapping (even if not intentional) is going to be classified as "accidental."
    You got that right:
    Mississippi Code
    SEC. 97-3-19. Homicide; murder defined; capital murder; lesser-included offenses.
    (1) The killing of a human being without the authority of law by any means or in any manner shall be murder in the following cases:
    (a) When done with deliberate design to effect the death of the person killed, or of any human being;
    (b) When done in the commission of an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved heart, regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual;
    (c) When done without any design to effect death by any person engaged in the commission of any felony other than rape, kidnapping, burglary, arson, robbery, sexual battery, unnatural intercourse with any child under the age of twelve (12), or nonconsensual unnatural intercourse with mankind, or felonious abuse and/or battery of a child in violation of subsection (2) of Section 97-5-39, or in any attempt to commit such felonies;
    (d) When done with deliberate design to effect the death of an unborn child.
    http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/97/003/0019.htm
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  36. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    I don't believe death during kidnapping (even if not intentional) is going to be classified as "accidental."
    Makes a difference on the type of charge, though. 1st degree murder, premeditated murder, 2nd degree murder, felony murder, accomplice after the fact, manslaughter, what have you. She might not be charged in their deaths at all if she can prove she had no hand in it and her own life was at stake.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

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  38. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Maybe homicide is rare, but there are plenty of cases where fathers kidnapped their kids from bio-moms.
    Definitely. But my point is that when you add homicide of someone other than the child of the kidnapper to the mix, it is a sign of the predatory nature, in most cases, of the kidnapper. Can you think of a case where a parent killed others in the process of kidnapping their child? I can't and I think it is very rare. The violent act of murder of other parties in connection with kidnappings is usually combined with sexual predation.

    I don't want to believe that, it's just the stats. I can list all such cases but Ghostwheel is right - it's all too horrible to think of. I'm going to try to focus on these girls being recovered alive and unscathed, for the most part.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  40. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel View Post
    Makes a difference on the type of charge, though. 1st degree murder, premeditated murder, 2nd degree murder, felony murder, accomplice after the fact, manslaughter, what have you. She might not be charged in their deaths at all if she can prove she had no hand in it and her own life was at stake.
    I don't know what prosecutions' thinking is at this point. Maybe she is cooperating with them and thus no charges related to victims being dead? But I presume they could always upgrade the charges if they want to.
    Just my opinion

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  42. #822
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    SmoothOperator is online now Sadly what connects all these puzzles is that there's a victim@the heart of each
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    May 1st is the first time that they interviewed AM.. 3 days later on May 4th they actually went back with an arrest warrant and AM was gone.. This is when they started interviewing TM and mom and 24 hrs later they were digging up the bodies..

    The reporter on NG just said that TM actually told her SISTER OVER A WEEK AGO ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND THE SISTER DID NOTHING!!!

    They did not interview him til May 1st!!! He had already long since murdered mom and AB and IMO by that point he already had taken the two younger girls to the place he had pre planned to take them!!!!!!jmo!


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  44. #823
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    Hey guys,
    I was wondering if any of you happened to see my post a few pages back. I have to go find it now.
    I just had a couple questions and i was wondering if anyone knew the answers? I'll go try to find my post again.

    I just wanted to add that i hate the word "grooming". I've wrote about this before, but i was abused by stepfather for years. And our family were/are all "Christians". Pastors and everything. My abuse started when i was 11 until i was like 17. I only told one boyfriend when i was like 14 or 15 until i met my husband. He abused my younger cousin after for 2 years after me. Started around the same age w/ her.
    We finally decided we had to do something and just this past year finally was able to put him in jail.
    It was the hardest thing ever. He wasn't mean and stuff. He was my stepfather from the time i was little. We had the father/daughter relationship and i always still felt that "loyalty" to him and couldn't "tell" on him. I didn't want him to go to jail even though i was so messed up and hated everything about it. I told myself that i would live w/ it all my life. Until i had my own kids. Then something snapped. I realized that i wasn't doing telling on him cuz i hated him or out of revenge or anything, but i had to do something to protect any other kids from him.
    I had so much guilt that i didn't speak up before he got to my cousin. I still live w/ that guilt everyday.
    But yah....the word "grooming" makes me shiver. And feel disgusting.
    Anyway...
    I'm going to find my other post....sorry i went on and on.
    I just hope that Adam isn't doing any of that to the girls. I don't trust anyone...whether they "love" you like a father does or not.
    I sat there for the longest time
    after you were gone....
    thinking about all things we said.....
    and all the things we didn't say...
    I wonder if you misunderstood,
    cause I'm no good when it comes to talking....
    And I'm sorry,I didn't know the words.......
    to make you stay.

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  46. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnoliaMom View Post
    I am sorry you were molested. My post wasn't meant to be disrespectful just providing documentation that pedophiles often think they are showing love. Please don't take it personal.

    We have no proof at this point what his motivation for kidnapping JB and her children.

    Like I have said before, I think JM's motivation was that he was delusional in the parentage of the girls. I truly think in the beginning he thought Alex was his daughter. Over time, he began to imagine a life with her mother. A life that would never happen because her mom was now married to a man who fathered her sister. When the family moved to AZ, he began to form a plan..... I don't know exactly how that planned came together, but here we are now. A Mom and her daughter dead, the Mom's other two girls missing and a man who, for what ever reason thinks at least one of them is his daughter.
    There is a sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness, but of power. They speak more eloquently than ten thousand tongues. They are messengers of overwhelming grief.. and unspeakable love. --Washington Irving

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  48. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Definitely. But my point is that when you add homicide of someone other than the child of the kidnapper to the mix, it is a sign of the predatory nature, in most cases, of the kidnapper. Can you think of a case where a parent killed others in the process of kidnapping their child? I can't and I think it is very rare. The violent act of murder of other parties in connection with kidnappings is usually combined with sexual predation.

    I don't want to believe that, it's just the stats. I can list all such cases but Ghostwheel is right - it's all too horrible to think of. I'm going to try to focus on these girls being recovered alive and unscathed, for the most part.
    Sure, bring that up, too....
    I'm going with, if the deaths were accidental-no pedophile. If they were premeditated-maybe pedophile. I'll try not to fall off the fence.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

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