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Thread: Trial Thread 10 May 2012 - Judge's Instructions and maybe deliberations!

  1. #76
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    RaffertyLFP: Heeney says the Crown is not liable for all the statements made by witness - some parts of testimony may be unreliable

    RaffertyLFP: Heeney says he is breaking his charge into one hour segments - jokes that jurors will likely be watching the clock

    Heeney says they are allowed to believe all, some or none of what a witness says

    Heeney says there will be hourly breaks so jurors can prepare "as we all watch the clock".
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoofer View Post
    Were the jurors allowed to watch tv and internet while the trial was on BEFORE deliberations?
    Neither. They are not allowed to have any contact with any information related to the case at any time during the trial.

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  5. #78
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    Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
    Judge tells jury he'll be speaking in one-hour segments. Cracks a joke about people watching the clock


    Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
    Judge says jury may believe all, none or some of what a witness said, depending on credibility and reliability of the witness
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  7. #79
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    Heeney says only evidence seen in the courtroom can be considered. Questions from lawyers are not evidence, unless adopted by a witness.

    RaffertyLFP: Heeney says statements of lawyers of himself are not evidence only statements of witnesses and exhibits filed are evidence

    RaffertyLFP: Heeney explains difference between direct and circumstantial evidence
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  9. #80
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    Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
    Crown: Not a numbers game, can’t decide this based on who called most number of witnesses. Credibility and reliability, not quantity
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  11. #81
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    RaffertyLFP: He explains direct evidence is watching and feeling rain on your face Circumstantial is finding puddles on ground and assuming it rained
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  13. #82
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    AM980_Court Heeney says only evidence seen in the courtroom can be considered. Questions from lawyers are not evidence, unless adopted by a witness.

    ...starting tweets for the day ...just signed in rockin robynhood!...smile
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  15. #83
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    Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
    Judge: Circumstantial evidence – you can draw inferences from circumstantial evidence, but must be reasonably and logically drawn
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  17. #84
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    RaffertyLFP Heeney explains difference between direct and circumstantial evidence
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  19. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    WTF?


    Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
    Jury back. Justice Heeney clarifies that there were three DNA profiles on #Rafferty's gym bag. One could have been Tori, may not be blood.
    That's certainly refreshing ... it's fantastic that the Judge is ensuring that the crown's case factually correct, including the closing arguments. The defence can fabricate whatever they want, but the crown will only work with the facts. That's certainly a point for the integrity of justice system.

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  21. #86
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    RaffertyLFP He explains direct evidence is watching and feeling rain on your face Circumstantial is finding puddles on ground and assuming it rained
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  23. #87
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    AM980_Court Heeney says only evidence seen in the courtroom can be considered. Questions from lawyers are not evidence, unless adopted by a witness.
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  25. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Bug View Post
    Heeney is "helping you make a decision, not telling you what decision to make".

    RaffertyLFP: Heeney tells jury that that they are judges in the trial just like him He conducts the trial - they are the judges of fact

    RaffertyLFP: Heeney said the jury must follow all the legal rules that apply to their process even if they disagree
    I find this so refreshing ... it reminds me of a recent case in Italy ... the jury are the judges of the case and, regardless of their opinions, they must stick to the facts.

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  27. #89
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    AM980_Court Heeney says circumstantial evidence can support more than one reasonable conclusion.
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  29. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    That's certainly refreshing ... it's fantastic that the Judge is ensuring that the crown's case factually correct, including the closing arguments. The defence can fabricate whatever they want, but the crown will only work with the facts. That's certainly a point for the integrity of justice system.
    LONDON, ONT.— Science took centre stage at theTori Stafford murder trial Wednesday as the Crown presented, perhaps, the single most important piece of evidence in the case: a mixed sample of DNA found from Michael Rafferty’s blue and green Goodlife Fitness gym bag.

    Blood stains on the bottom surface of the bag were determined to be a mix of DNA from three people, two of those nearly certainly Rafferty and Tori, said a scientist with the Centre for Forensic Sciences in Toronto.

    Rafferty can’t be excluded, Tori can’t be excluded from the sample, Jennifer McLean said in forensic lingo. She added the chance that it was from anyone other than Tori was 1 in 28 billion.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/ar...y-s-trial-told
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  31. #91
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    Heeney says circumstantial evidence can support more than one reasonable conclusion.

    RaffertyLFP: Heeney says questions asked by lawyers are not evidence unless a witness agrees the suggestion in the question is true.
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  33. #92
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    Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
    Judge: Questions of lawyers not evidence, unless witness adopts the proposition of fact in answer.
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  35. #93
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    affertyLFP Heeney says questions asked by lawyers are not evidence unless a witness agrees the suggestion in the question is true.
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  37. #94
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    RaffertyLFP: Heeney noted that Derstine made a number of suggestions to McClintic about what happened to Tori. Heeney said McClintic said no to all

    Heeney says to the jury series of rapid fire questions by Derstine to McClintic suggesting events of April 8th are not evidence.

    McClintic said no to each of his questions.
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  39. #95
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    RaffertyLFP Heeney noted that Derstine made a number of suggestions to McClintic about what happened to Tori. Heeney said McClintic said no to all
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  41. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Bug View Post
    RaffertyLFP: He explains direct evidence is watching and feeling rain on your face Circumstantial is finding puddles on ground and assuming it rained
    What a refreshing, clear cut metaphor for the distinction between the two types of evidence! I've read so many descriptions on this forum over the years, but that description leaves no doubt as to meaning.

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  43. #97
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    AveryFreeFMNews Judge reminds the jury that the suggestions the defence made to McClintic that she denied are not evidence. Must be disregarded. #Rafferty
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  45. #98
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    Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
    Defence's theory of Rafferty as innocent dupe, came out in his questions, which McClintic didn't accept so Judge says its not evidence
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  47. #99
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    AveryFreeFMNews Defence's suggestion that Rafferty was an innocent dupe and McClintic the 'engine' are not evidence. McC didn't adopt the ideas.
    Five years from now, when people think of Victoria Stafford they are going to think of the little girl that changed Canadian Laws and made it a safer nation for all children.
    *
    Rodney Stafford; Victoria's Dad

    **RIP Tim Bosma...
    Justice Shall Prevail

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  49. #100
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    Court transcript costs might be quite high, even if they would agree to provide only a small specific portion for example a day's worth imo. I've never ordered a transcript for a trial like this though, and haven't in many years, so am not sure about current costs or process requirements.
    "I learned that it is the weak who are cruel, and that gentleness is to be expected only from the strong."~Leo Rosten

    “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” ~Mother Teresa of Calcutta


    "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." ~ Marcus Aurelius

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