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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisy7 View Post
    So, this narrative could have been written after the Dr. visit? I'm just trying to understand this. I have seen my son's medical records when we switched pedis and there was nothing like this in their records.
    If you need a letter from a doctor for whatever reason you can request that doctor writes you a letter.
    Just my opinion


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  3. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by daisy7 View Post
    So, this narrative could have been written after the Dr. visit? I'm just trying to understand this. I have seen my son's medical records when we switched pedis and there was nothing like this in their records.
    I have gone through many medical records for my job and it is not uncommon to see reports like this.

    Also, don't know how all doctors do it but my pediatrician always picks up the phone and begins giving a narrative of the appointment as we are leaving. I always assumed that this was being transcribed at some point.


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  5. #48
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    If photos of his knuckles are shown to the public, then we will know more.
    Autopsy photos are not released to the public, for good reason.

    How black were George's eyes?

    Were his black eyes documented with photographs that can be proven to be authentic -- not black from his cosmetologist wife, skilled with make-up -- or not black from photoshopping?
    There would have been no reason for a family practice doc or PA to take photos of GZ's black eyes. That is not part of any standard care or office visit. If photos for legal purposes are needed, such as to document domestic abuse injuries, etc, a LE photographer takes those. And any health care povider worth their salt could spot "make up" enhanced injuries during exam.

    Altamonte Family Physicians is a very small clinic-- one doc, 2 PA's, and office staff. Unless this clinic is co-located with other lab and radiology resources, it's unlikely they have extensive imaging capability on site. That is very expensive and cost prohibitive for the size of that practice-- all of the regulations that have to be implemented with a radiology dept, building codes and shielding, etc.

    There would have been no reason, with a minor cartilage nasal fracture, to do any kind of imaging to "document" broken cartilage at the FP clinic. If the doc (or EMS) suspected serious facal injury, there would have been recommendations for immediate urgent care/ ER, and imaging to rule out Le Fort fractures, which are facial and orbital fractures. None of the medical providers thought his injuries looked serious enough to get images. A referral to an ENT is pretty much standard-- and I took that comment as a referral for the tonsil complaint as much as for the nasal fracture.

    I'm just not understanding why there is so much criticism and suspicion of the FP clinic personnel? I think that is not logical at all, and very unfair. There is absolutely nothing at all that has been released that should cause any of us at this time to criticize the doc/ PAs, or clinic staff. They were just doing their job the day GZ was seen there. There was just no reason for them to suspect or cover up ANYTHING. It doesn't matter why he chose that particular clinic and docs-- they were a valid choice for the level of care he was seeking.

    If criticism of medical documentation and care is WARRANTED according to the evidence, then that is a different story. At this point, there is a certain zeal to cast suspicion over anyone who has come into the slightest contact with GZ. In the case of these professionals, that is VERY unfair and unwarranted. At this point, I haven't seen the record, so I don't feel anyone (myself included) should criticize the efforts of the health care providers. I am sure they have been dreading the day their names would be made public in this case, because of all of the extreme hate and rage that has been heaped on the PATIENT they saw in their clinic. Who they didn't even know would become so hated on a national level.

    For just a minute-- imagine someone you know works at that clinic. Imagine the concerns they have for the negative publicity impacting their workplace, potential loss of patients, potentially decreased revenue from lower office visits, etc. Not to mention possible fears for their own safety if a crowd decides to picket or protest outside their clinic. Harrassment of witnesses is a real and valid concern in this very inflamed case. The providers from this clinic will likely be named as defense witnesses if and when this comes to trial.

    I'm just very disturbed that anyone would feel it is valid and acceptable to indirectly bash the health care providers in this situation. If there emerges good reason to heap criticism on them, such as substandard documentation or care, then that is fair game. But to bash them and insinuate that they were complicit in some kind of conspiracy to falsify medical records, or imply that they were a "bad" or "wrong" choice because other docs were closer to his home, or obliquely criticize the credentials of an osteopathic physician because he is not an MD, is ridiculous, imo.


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  7. #49
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    The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...2#.T7O5Znpo9Xa


    I wonder who told him he needed a "legal clearance"? I have never heard of that.
    .............Any man's death diminishes me because I am
    involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    it tolls for thee. . . .
    from Meditation 17
    by John Donne


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  9. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    If you need a letter from a doctor for whatever reason you can request that doctor writes you a letter.
    I don't think that is a letter or note to his work.
    .............Any man's death diminishes me because I am
    involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    it tolls for thee. . . .
    from Meditation 17
    by John Donne


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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandmaTo4 View Post
    Who knows IF he really had black eyes?

    Yes, you certainly can have black eyes from a broken nose. You do not always have black eyes from a broken nose -- and you can have black eyes without a broken or even a bruised nose.

    How black were George's eyes?

    Were his black eyes documented with photographs that can be proven to be authentic -- not black from his cosmetologist wife, skilled with make-up -- or not black from photoshopping?

    I'm sorry. There have already been so many downright flagrant lies coming from the Zimmerman camp that I will not believe anything they say without convincing, authenticated proof.

    I find it very strange that George did not make appearances in some public places where several trustworthy people could observe all his injuries for themselves - and later testify to the severity of the injuries. Why was he in hiding the very next day after the shooting?

    Even pals Joe Oliver and Francis Taaffe finally admitted they had not seen George since before the killing. I think they finally saw him when the rest of us did -- when George was arrested. How come?

    Trayvon's killing did not receive more than small blurbs of news reporting for weeks. And there certainly were no Zimmerman *death threats* early on, either. Don't you think it strange that George was in such deep hiding so fast? _ Why? _
    It's coming from a doctor's report. I should pull up posts from early on where everyone stated emphatically that they want to see to doctor's report as proof of injuries.

    First it's the police report that wasn't accurate in saying GZ had injuries. Then it's the video that's been altered. Then the photo on the back of the head is a fake. Now a doctor's report says he had injuries.

    I mean, how many times do we continue to dismiss this stuff. What if the EMT report also says he had injuries.


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  13. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
    Autopsy photos are not released to the public, for good reason.



    There would have been no reason for a family practice doc or PA to take photos of GZ's black eyes. That is not part of any standard care or office visit. If photos for legal purposes are needed, such as to document domestic abuse injuries, etc, a LE photographer takes those. And any health care povider worth their salt could spot "make up" enhanced injuries during exam.

    Altamonte Family Physicians is a very small clinic-- one doc, 2 PA's, and office staff. Unless this clinic is co-located with other lab and radiology resources, it's unlikely they have extensive imaging capability on site. That is very expensive and cost prohibitive for the size of that practice-- all of the regulations that have to be implemented with a radiology dept, building codes and shielding, etc.

    There would have been no reason, with a minor cartilage nasal fracture, to do any kind of imaging to "document" broken cartilage at the FP clinic. If the doc (or EMS) suspected serious facal injury, there would have been recommendations for immediate urgent care/ ER, and imaging to rule out Le Fort fractures, which are facial and orbital fractures. None of the medical providers thought his injuries looked serious enough to get images. A referral to an ENT is pretty much standard-- and I took that comment as a referral for the tonsil complaint as much as for the nasal fracture.

    I'm just not understanding why there is so much criticism and suspicion of the FP clinic personnel? I think that is not logical at all, and very unfair. There is absolutely nothing at all that has been released that should cause any of us at this time to criticize the doc/ PAs, or clinic staff. They were just doing their job the day GZ was seen there. There was just no reason for them to suspect or cover up ANYTHING. It doesn't matter why he chose that particular clinic and docs-- they were a valid choice for the level of care he was seeking.

    If criticism of medical documentation and care is WARRANTED according to the evidence, then that is a different story. At this point, there is a certain zeal to cast suspicion over anyone who has come into the slightest contact with GZ. In the case of these professionals, that is VERY unfair and unwarranted. At this point, I haven't seen the record, so I don't feel anyone (myself included) should criticize the efforts of the health care providers. I am sure they have been dreading the day their names would be made public in this case, because of all of the extreme hate and rage that has been heaped on the PATIENT they saw in their clinic. Who they didn't even know would become so hated on a national level.

    For just a minute-- imagine someone you know works at that clinic. Imagine the concerns they have for the negative publicity impacting their workplace, potential loss of patients, potentially decreased revenue from lower office visits, etc. Not to mention possible fears for their own safety if a crowd decides to picket or protest outside their clinic. Harrassment of witnesses is a real and valid concern in this very inflamed case. The providers from this clinic will likely be named as defense witnesses if and when this comes to trial.

    I'm just very disturbed that anyone would feel it is valid and acceptable to indirectly bash the health care providers in this situation. If there emerges good reason to heap criticism on them, such as substandard documentation or care, then that is fair game. But to bash them and insinuate that they were complicit in some kind of conspiracy to falsify medical records, or imply that they were a "bad" or "wrong" choice because other docs were closer to his home, or obliquely criticize the credentials of an osteopathic physician because he is not an MD, is ridiculous, imo.
    Thanks was just not enough. You said what I was trying to say so much better.

    I absolutely understand everyone floating theories, etc. My goodness how I have done that myself on so many cases (i.e. Casey Anthony). I guess that because I have a personal connection that I can't talk about now, I see things differently.


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  15. #53
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    But the report also shows Zimmerman declined hospitalization the night of the shooting, and then declined the advice of his doctor to make a follow-up appointment with an ear nose and throat doctor.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...2#.T7O5Znpo9Xa


    I would really like to see the dates on this report. Did George go back to this Dr. at a later time and tell him he did not go to another Dr. or did George just tell him right there in the office he would not go to another Dr.? The wording is funny.
    .............Any man's death diminishes me because I am
    involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    it tolls for thee. . . .
    from Meditation 17
    by John Donne


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  17. #54
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    Am I remembering correctly that MO'M waived GZ's right to a speedy trial and/or a chance to go before a judge and plead SYG for a chance to have the case thrown out? If so, I wonder why, if they had records that show so many corroberating injuries? I would have asked to plead it before a judge in the hopes that he would toss it based on SYG, and then if he didn't, prepare for a trial.




    It Was Ancient Aliens!


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  19. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefmom View Post
    Am I remembering correctly that MO'M waived GZ's right to a speedy trial and/or a chance to go before a judge and plead SYG for a chance to have the case thrown out? If so, I wonder why, if they had records that show so many corroberating injuries? I would have asked to plead it before a judge in the hopes that he would toss it based on SYG, and then if he didn't, prepare for a trial.
    He waived the right to a speedy trial. He did not waive his right to an SYG hearing.


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  21. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
    A medical report compiled by the family physician of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.





    The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered bruising in the upper lip and cheek and lower back pain. The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.




    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16353532
    Was it ABC that released the photo of bleeding on the back of GZ's head?


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  23. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
    Is a likely broken nose a broken nose?




    Webcast: George Zimmerman Medical Records - YouTube
    Is the medical document on line anywhere for full viewing. That actually looks like a set of discharge instructions and not the findings of an exam!


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  25. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
    I'm just not understanding why there is so much criticism and suspicion of the FP clinic personnel? I think that is not logical at all, and very unfair. There is absolutely nothing at all that has been released that should cause any of us at this time to criticize the doc/ PAs, or clinic staff. They were just doing their job the day GZ was seen there. There was just no reason for them to suspect or cover up ANYTHING. It doesn't matter why he chose that particular clinic and docs-- they were a valid choice for the level of care he was seeking.

    If criticism of medical documentation and care is WARRANTED according to the evidence, then that is a different story. At this point, there is a certain zeal to cast suspicion over anyone who has come into the slightest contact with GZ. In the case of these professionals, that is VERY unfair and unwarranted. At this point, I haven't seen the record, so I don't feel anyone (myself included) should criticize the efforts of the health care providers. I am sure they have been dreading the day their names would be made public in this case, because of all of the extreme hate and rage that has been heaped on the PATIENT they saw in their clinic. Who they didn't even know would become so hated on a national level.

    For just a minute-- imagine someone you know works at that clinic. Imagine the concerns they have for the negative publicity impacting their workplace, potential loss of patients, potentially decreased revenue from lower office visits, etc. Not to mention possible fears for their own safety if a crowd decides to picket or protest outside their clinic. Harrassment of witnesses is a real and valid concern in this very inflamed case. The providers from this clinic will likely be named as defense witnesses if and when this comes to trial.

    I'm just very disturbed that anyone would feel it is valid and acceptable to indirectly bash the health care providers in this situation. If there emerges good reason to heap criticism on them, such as substandard documentation or care, then that is fair game. But to bash them and insinuate that they were complicit in some kind of conspiracy to falsify medical records, or imply that they were a "bad" or "wrong" choice because other docs were closer to his home, or obliquely criticize the credentials of an osteopathic physician because he is not an MD, is ridiculous, imo.
    Respectfully snipped; emphasis mine


    Thank you! AGREED.


    Mod note:

    Just catching up on this thread and addressing this now.


    The bashing and these ridiculous accusations without any merit whatsoever that are insinuating these medical professionals falsified anything or had any motive other than doing their jobs in a professional manner STOPS NOW. Unless you have something tangible to support that claim, drop this whole line of discussion now.

    We're not going to accuse anyone of anything so vile unless there is some sort of proof to back it up.

    Further posts like that w/o a link to back up the accusation will result in TOs.
    WEBSLEUTHS ON FACEBOOK


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  27. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
    Is the medical document on line anywhere for full viewing. That actually looks like a set of discharge instructions and not the findings of an exam!
    I don't think ABC has released it yet except in the videos.
    .............Any man's death diminishes me because I am
    involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    it tolls for thee. . . .
    from Meditation 17
    by John Donne


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  29. #60
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    According to a tiny report by Associated Press, "Zimmerman was treated Feb. 27 at Altamonte Family Practice."

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/1...ghborhood.html

    If you look up Altamonte Family Practice you will see that it is headed up by Andrew E. Krupitsky, D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy) and two female Physician Assistants. In addition there is a large office staff (all female).

    When Crump discussed the report on Anderson 360 last night, he kept referencing a female so I assume from that that George was actually seen by one of the Physician Assistants. Since one of them is most interested in Pediatrics and Women's Health, it is likely that George was seen by the other PA.

    Of course, until we see the actual document, it is all guess work based on what O'Mara has shared with ABC and what ABC has shared with other news organizations. And, O'Mara did as much as say he was planning on releasing info. It's in an earlier WESH article on either Monday or Tuesday.

    http://www.wesh.com/trayvon-martin-e...20/detail.html
    Last edited by i.b.nora; 05-16-2012 at 12:26 PM. Reason: add source


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