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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek&Find View Post
    He didn't take pains to compare it to murder...??

    As addressed earlier, homosexuality is addressed in the Old & New Testament in numerous places.

    This teacher is not advocating violence.
    Not to belabor the point, but in fact he did take certain pains to compare the two when he placed "murder" first in his list of sins following reference (via third person impersonal pronoun "it") to homosexuality.

    Ergo, murder was the first thing that sprang to his mind.

    The problem with interpreting Scripture is that it contradicts itself every little whipstitch, or at least often enough to allow the reader to base his or her beliefs on selected portions of same. I choose to get the general gist of JC's message - Love one another even as I have loved you - and go from there.


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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    If the distribution group were sufficiently limited, I might feel less harshly on the subject. But a teacher should be smart enough to know that anything he puts into print may take on a life of its own.

    And what was the point? All those claiming his remarks are so benign should be able to answer why he jumped to a comparison with murderers, rather than one with adulterers, masturbators or other sexual offenses.



    Of course not, but your history as an individual is not the same as the considerable history of violence against and killing of gay people. The teacher should be ashamed that he contributed to that history, whether intentionally or out of ignorance.
    The point was to stand up for faith. He could've made a much longer list, but he was standing up for what he believes, and yet being clear that, while he does not support gay marriage due to his faith, homosexuality is not especially heinous, but one among a litany of sins. Obama's desire to try to link his decision to support gay marriage (for votes and Hollywood $, IMO) to Christianity to justify it prompted the teacher's post. (I agree with Graham's take on Obama's announcement.)


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  5. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by T4Tide View Post
    Because someone he knows personally or through his work brought it to the public's attention. It was probably brought to his local newspaper or network, and then picked up from there. OTHER people made it known, not him. Same as the guy with the "golden voice." I mean, how else would I know about it? He didn't tell me, but the news caught wind of it and then everyone knew.

    I am the same as a murderer in the eyes of God. My sins are no greater or smaller. Jesus suffered and died for every murderer, just as He died for me. Murderers, who turn from their evil ways and ask for forgiveness, will worship beside me in Heaven one day. Sin is sin is sin.

    I just equated myself with murderers. Does that make you want to kill me or be violent against me? No. (Well... I hope not? ) I don't see the lousy logic. I see salvation.
    When the Bible recommends considering oneself to be the chief of all sinners, I've got no problems with it there - though perphaps a keener assessment of mortal versus venial sins might not be entirely out of the question. Would that Teacher Man here have been obedient to that message. Oh no, no - he had to post on a public forum his hatred of homosexuals. He had to judge. He had to include one thing not against the law of the land and compare it with several that are. He had to play the role of Christian bigshot know-it-all. He should be dismissed immediately and not again hired to teach in a public school.


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  7. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    Not to belabor the point, but in fact he did take certain pains to compare the two when he placed "murder" first in his list of sins following reference (via third person impersonal pronoun "it") to homosexuality.

    Ergo, murder was the first thing that sprang to his mind.

    The problem with interpreting Scripture is that it contradicts itself every little whipstitch, or at least often enough to allow the reader to base his or her beliefs on selected portions of same. I choose to get the general gist of JC's message - Love one another even as I have loved you - and go from there.
    So, I'd asked earlier, would it have been better to some had he listed it last, in the middle, not at all?

    I understand what you're saying. It's especially hard to understand in little bits. The larger message makes each bit fit, IMO.

    That's a great place to start.


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  9. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek&Find View Post
    So, I'd asked earlier, would it have been better to some had he listed it last, in the middle, not at all?

    I understand what you're saying. It's especially hard to understand in little bits. The larger message makes each bit fit, IMO.

    That's a great place to start.
    It does matter if we attempt to reconstruct his mental process for choosing to post what he did. He wasn't out to damn, say, cheaters; he wasn't railing against thieves. He was one of those out to make a statement, and he was entirely free to do so. He had to get his two cents' worth in on gay marriage, by gum, and in doing so he in effect trampled over the lives of some of those he teaches, who have no alternative but to submit to the class schedule and take Mr. What's His Name's class.


  10. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    To Soulmagent:



    Certainly lying and cheating are less severe; we don't usually punish them with death.

    But the fact remains that ALL his comparison are to crimes against persons. Homosexuality is not such an offense. "One of these things is not like the others", as the children's books say.

    Now either God is too stupid to make the distinction or some Christians are too stupid to read scripture with their critical faculties intact. Personally, I wouldn't want the latter teaching my grandchildren, but I realize that depending on district rules, there may be no recourse.
    Lying is a crime against a person?

    Cheating is a crime against a person?

    It's sad to see you resort to calling either God or others stupid, IMO. Not a fan of name calling, insults, or bullying in any fashion. (further addressed in my posts in Romney's bullying thread).


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  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just stating fact and logical conclusions.

    Calling me a "bully" doesn't intimidate me. It's just more right-wing whining.

    And I don't care whether you like it, it's a FACT that nobody follows all the prohibitions of either Testament. So anybody who claims homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says so is cherry-picking to suit his own prejudices.
    You're right. Everyone breaks at least one. Just as the teacher said. We can't be perfect, even with our best efforts. And perfection isn't our purpose.

    But to say that, because all have sinned, no one can call homosexuality a sin doesn't make sense. If he had said he stood against gay marriage due to his beliefs, and had included a verrry long list of every possible sin listed in the Bible, but the rest of the content had been the same, would you feel the same way?


  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by animlzrule View Post
    \

    He shouldn't be speaking about any of them in the public school system except in purely academic terms. Outside of school, he should know enough to keep his ugly beliefs and perspective to himself. Does he really think the average parent wants their child exposed to the likes of him during the school day? It's akin to being fine with your child's teacher being a drug addict, alcoholic or otherwise unhinged individual. He is free to do whatever he wants during his after school hours. But if he doesn't think that there are going to be consequences when he gets caught with his pants down, so to speak, how incredibly ignorant and naive.
    Name calling and insults aren't generally the best way to make a point, IMO.

    So, he shouldn't speak of his beliefs at school. He didn't.

    He shouldn't speak of his beliefs outside of school.

    So, he should never speak of them...? Because you don't share them??


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  15. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Let's don't pretend the Bible doesn't require capital punishment for a wide variety of offenses. If the teacher's argument is that something must be so because it is written in the OT, doesn't he have to own the entire document?

    How about if the teacher had posted on FB that all wives who weren't virgins on their wedding nights (see Deuteronomy) should be put to death? Would that be okay just because he "believes" it?
    His statement isn't that something must be so due to the OT. He said the Bible says. It's one complete work. There's the OT and the Law, Jesus's sacrifice, and the NT and Grace. Each verse matters, but to try to understand it by picking and choosing verses one likes or doesn't is like reading three random pages of War and Peace and thinking you understand the story line.


  16. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardenlady View Post
    It is absolutely bigoted, IMO, to view someone as a sinner, or less deserving of rights and privileges of citizenship because of who they love.

    It isn't just a matter of disagreement when you are talking about discriminating against a class of people.
    Where did the teacher address discrimination?


  17. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappuccino View Post
    No. I'm trying to find where the line should be drawn between freedom of religion and hate speech, because it is definitely apparent to me that some people are using the first as a cover for the second.



    No, that's not what I'm doing.



    But wouldn't that be a waste of time here? We already know your answer to whether or not someone is allowed to use religion as an excuse for hatred of homosexuals. What I'm interested in finding out is whether or not you respect the same right being exercised in a different context.

    For example, how would you feel if a liberal muslim public school teacher posted on his fb page that apostates from Islam are as bad as murderers? He's not saying they should be sentenced to death, or sentenced to anything - just that they are morally equivalent to a murderer.

    Would you be happy with him teaching in a public school? Would you still be happy if you knew one of his students was a young muslim struggling with doubts about his or her faith?
    Several have used the term hate speech or hatred. Where was that in the teacher's post??


  18. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappuccino View Post
    I might get back to you about that in the abortion thread, after I've finished reading about what Abraham was ordered to do to Isaac.
    How does that relate to the teacher's post?


  19. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    More from the Gospel According to Santa Claus. Because the Bible quite clearly supports polygamy.
    This is incorrect. The Bible does not say a man should take more than one wife. While it does relate instances of people choosing polygamy, concubines, etc, it likewise shows the disastrous consequences of those choices, in David and Solomon's lives, for example. And clearly says it was those choices that caused sin, heartache, and turning from God.

    The Bible often follows individual's lives, showing us both examples to follow and cautionary lessons.


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  21. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappuccino View Post
    Because there is no part of your constitution which outlaws discrimination on the grounds of number. There is a very clear part which outlaws discrimination on the grounds of gender. You cannot sue a prospective employer for not employing you and five other people together because you all applied for the job as a group. But you can indeed sue if you are not hired specifically on the grounds of your sex.

    Btw, how many wives did Abraham have?
    So, our Constitution is the basis for determining bigotry??


  22. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek&Find View Post
    Several have used the term hate speech or hatred. Where was that in the teacher's post??
    He has threatend us all to hell unless we accept his religion , In addition to that he has forwarned us heaven will be full of snners who have merely accepted him into their hearts.

    Sinner such as murders ,liars and cheaters.


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