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  1. #1
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    Where Did JR Go To Check Mail?

    Forgive me if I'm missing something. We've been told that John Ramsey oddly left the house for about an hour that morning, before JBR's body was discovered, to "check the mail." I believe this report first appeared in Vanity Fair.

    How does it take someone an hour to check the mail? The Ramseys must have had a mail box. Where could he have gone for the mail except to the curb in front of his house? Why would anyone not question this?

    The other inexplicable action JR took that day was to schedule a flight to Atlanta very shortly after his daughter's body was discovered. I don't understand how this one act did not get the Ramseys arrested on the spot. To me, they appeared to be blatantly attempting to flee the crime scene.

    I understand very well that the wealthy are accorded a different brand of justice than the rest of us, but this case is in a class by itself in that regard.


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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unreals View Post
    Forgive me if I'm missing something. We've been told that John Ramsey oddly left the house for about an hour that morning, before JBR's body was discovered, to "check the mail." I believe this report first appeared in Vanity Fair.


    How does it take someone an hour to check the mail? The Ramseys must have had a mail box. Where could he have gone for the mail except to the curb in front of his house? Why would anyone not question this?

    I can't remember enough about this, but there are people here who recall all the little details.

    The other inexplicable action JR took that day was to schedule a flight to Atlanta very shortly after his daughter's body was discovered. I don't understand how this one act did not get the Ramseys arrested on the spot. To me, they appeared to be blatantly attempting to flee the crime scene.
    I wonder if JR was simply seeing what he could do? The cops at that point had made no noises about arresting anyone. If you ask the cops if you can leave the state, they might say no. If you simply call your pilot and start making arrangements, and no one stops you, then you have not broken any laws. I think he was trying to get away from the scene, but I think he was also testing what the cops would allow.

    I understand very well that the wealthy are accorded a different brand of justice than the rest of us, but this case is in a class by itself in that regard.
    It sure is.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.


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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unreals View Post
    Forgive me if I'm missing something. We've been told that John Ramsey oddly left the house for about an hour that morning, before JBR's body was discovered, to "check the mail." I believe this report first appeared in Vanity Fair.

    How does it take someone an hour to check the mail? The Ramseys must have had a mail box. Where could he have gone for the mail except to the curb in front of his house? Why would anyone not question this?

    The other inexplicable action JR took that day was to schedule a flight to Atlanta very shortly after his daughter's body was discovered. I don't understand how this one act did not get the Ramseys arrested on the spot. To me, they appeared to be blatantly attempting to flee the crime scene.

    I understand very well that the wealthy are accorded a different brand of justice than the rest of us, but this case is in a class by itself in that regard.

    This is a myth that has LONG been around. This is what really happened. The myth was started by Detective Linda Arndt, who famously lost control of the crime scene. She was unable to figure out how to keep track of the house full of people, even though she had a gun and could easily have ordered them into one room.
    She "lost track" of JR for about 2 hours that morning, approx between 10 am and noon. During that time, she "thought" that JR must have gone to get his mail for no other reason than she saw him looking through mail when she "found" him again.
    For one- the Ramsey house had a MAIL SLOT in the front door through which mail was delivered right inside the house. They NEVER needed to "go and get mail". All they had to do was walk into the foyer and pick it up from the floor.
    Besides, would ANY parent of a kidnapped child who was supposedly waiting for a VERY important phone call actually leave the house to "go and get mail"?
    Of course, THIS child wasn't really kidnapped. She was dead in the basement at the time JR was missing and later "looking through his mail". And her parents knew there was going to be NO phone call.
    Still- at that time Arndt didn't know JB was dead in the basement and thought the kidnappers were still going to call. Yet she didn't think it "odd" that he would have left the house.
    JR never left the house, nor did he say he did. That was all a figment of Arndt's imagination. He was, however, "missing". Many people (including me) feel he was actually in the wineceller, bring her body into a more easily viewed position. Rigor and livor mortis tell us that she was placed on her back shortly after death, and that her position did not change. BUT she could have been pulled closer to the doorway later without that having been evident.

    As far as the "getaway" plans- to me, that SCREAMS guilty. Had they been truly concerned for the safety of their son and family, the police would have gladly provided that protection, or they could have hired security, all without leaving their dead child behind. INNOCENT parents would have been frantic in those first few days, frantic to talk to police, frantic to see that the investigation was in full gear and frantic to be cleared of suspicion. Yet- these two were oddly reticent. They did all they could to stall any police interviews and wouldn't allow them to talk to BR, whose bedroom down the hall from his sister gave him the opportunity to see and hear any "kidnappers".
    The fact is that the police WANTED to arrest the parents on the spot. Or at least that day. The DA refused to allow it and refused to grant a warrant for the arrest. Instead, he told the police to "treat theses people (the Ramseys) like victims and not like suspects.". So the police could not arrest them.
    And from the moment they walked out of that house (unsearched and unquestioned) they never looked back. They left their dead little girl under the Christmas tree, where little more than a day before she happily opened the presents from Santa. They distanced themselves from her when she was barely cold, never even asking to wait until she was taken to the morgue. They never entered the house again, and they never spoke of her death to her brother (according to them) again. When they had the funeral, Patsy was heard to say to BR, while standing at the coffin "See, she looks perfect, doesn't she?"
    She did. All blonde curls and pink funeral parlor lipstick under the pink funeral parlor lamps. Frilly pink pageant dress and tiara. Just as perfect as that MyTwinn doll under the tree in its own "box", dressed just like JB in a frilly pageant dress and tiara on its blonde curls.
    Last edited by DeeDee249; 05-26-2012 at 02:40 PM.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.



  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    They distanced themselves from her when she was barely cold, never even asking to wait until she was taken to the morgue. They never entered the house again, and they never spoke of her death to her brother (according to them) again. When they had the funeral, Patsy was heard to say to BR, while standing at the coffin "See, she looks perfect, doesn't she?"
    She did. All blonde curls and pink funeral parlor lipstick under the pink funeral parlor lamps. Frilly pink pageant dress and tiara. Just as perfect as that MyTwinn doll under the tree in its own "box", dressed just like JB in a frilly pageant dress and tiara on its blonde curls.
    Yet when BR was interviewed it went like this:
    What do you think happened to your sister?
    I know what happened to my sister. She was killed.
    But what happened?
    I know what happened.
    How she was killed? Have you talked to your parents about it?
    I asked my dad, Where did you find her body?
    He said, In the basement. I think someone took her down in the basement ... took a knife out (losing words, he made a slashing jesture) or hit her on the head. ST-ITRMI

    The inconsistensies never stop with this case from the moment they drove into the garage that fatal night. Odd that the knife belonged to BR and the flashlight was a gift from JAR. Sort of matches up to the 911 call that we all heard in the beginning before edit when we actually heard Burke ask "What did you find?" What an odd question to ask; instead of asking what is going on, don't you think?
    Last edited by Flatlander; 05-26-2012 at 08:26 PM. Reason: addition to statement


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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    Yet when BR was interviewed it went like this:
    What do you think happened to your sister?
    I know what happened to my sister. She was killed.
    But what happened?
    I know what happened.
    How she was killed? Have you talked to your parents about it?
    I asked my dad, Where did you find her body?
    He said, In the basement. I think someone took her down in the basement ... took a knife out (losing words, he made a slashing jesture) or hit her on the head. ST-ITRMI

    The inconsistensies never stop with this case from the moment they drove into the garage that fatal night. Odd that the knife belonged to BR and the flashlight was a gift from JAR. Sort of matches up to the 911 call that we all heard in the beginning before edit when we actually heard Burke ask "What did you find?" What an odd question to ask; instead of asking what is going on, don't you think?
    Flatlander,
    He said, In the basement. I think someone took her down in the basement ... took a knife out (losing words, he made a slashing jesture) or hit her on the head. ST-ITRMI
    But not strangled her!

    Burke ask "What did you find?" What an odd question to ask; instead of asking what is going on, don't you think?
    I agree an odd question, obviously one right out of Columbo's notebook.

    This would suggest Burke is ignorant about something , but it cannot be JonBenet, since this is the subject of the 911 call. So it must refer to some object in the basement, something Burke knows exists to be discovered?

    IMO it refers to forensic evidence, Burke is asking indirectly is there anything to be found which links to the death of JonBenet?

    What else could it be, its a homicide, we know where the body was when Burke posed his question, looks to me as if the R's were rechecking their staging, and Burke was simply wanting parental assurance that nothing had been found?


    .


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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    This is a myth that has LONG been around. This is what really happened. The myth was started by Detective Linda Arndt, who famously lost control of the crime scene. She was unable to figure out how to keep track of the house full of people, even though she had a gun and could easily have ordered them into one room.
    She "lost track" of JR for about 2 hours that morning, approx between 10 am and noon. During that time, she "thought" that JR must have gone to get his mail for no other reason than she saw him looking through mail when she "found" him again.
    For one- the Ramsey house had a MAIL SLOT in the front door through which mail was delivered right inside the house. They NEVER needed to "go and get mail". All they had to do was walk into the foyer and pick it up from the floor.
    Besides, would ANY parent of a kidnapped child who was supposedly waiting for a VERY important phone call actually leave the house to "go and get mail"?
    Of course, THIS child wasn't really kidnapped. She was dead in the basement at the time JR was missing and later "looking through his mail". And her parents knew there was going to be NO phone call.
    Still- at that time Arndt didn't know JB was dead in the basement and thought the kidnappers were still going to call. Yet she didn't think it "odd" that he would have left the house.
    JR never left the house, nor did he say he did. That was all a figment of Arndt's imagination. He was, however, "missing". Many people (including me) feel he was actually in the wineceller, bring her body into a more easily viewed position. Rigor and livor mortis tell us that she was placed on her back shortly after death, and that her position did not change. BUT she could have been pulled closer to the doorway later without that having been evident.

    As far as the "getaway" plans- to me, that SCREAMS guilty. Had they been truly concerned for the safety of their son and family, the police would have gladly provided that protection, or they could have hired security, all without leaving their dead child behind. INNOCENT parents would have been frantic in those first few days, frantic to talk to police, frantic to see that the investigation was in full gear and frantic to be cleared of suspicion. Yet- these two were oddly reticent. They did all they could to stall any police interviews and wouldn't allow them to talk to BR, whose bedroom down the hall from his sister gave him the opportunity to see and hear any "kidnappers".
    The fact is that the police WANTED to arrest the parents on the spot. Or at least that day. The DA refused to allow it and refused to grant a warrant for the arrest. Instead, he told the police to "treat theses people (the Ramseys) like victims and not like suspects.". So the police could not arrest them.
    And from the moment they walked out of that house (unsearched and unquestioned) they never looked back. They left their dead little girl under the Christmas tree, where little more than a day before she happily opened the presents from Santa. They distanced themselves from her when she was barely cold, never even asking to wait until she was taken to the morgue. They never entered the house again, and they never spoke of her death to her brother (according to them) again. When they had the funeral, Patsy was heard to say to BR, while standing at the coffin "See, she looks perfect, doesn't she?"
    She did. All blonde curls and pink funeral parlor lipstick under the pink funeral parlor lamps. Frilly pink pageant dress and tiara. Just as perfect as that MyTwinn doll under the tree in its own "box", dressed just like JB in a frilly pageant dress and tiara on its blonde curls.
    Nothing personal Dee-Dee but the last part of your post, which compares JonBenet with the MyTwinn Doll, is alsolutely creepy.
    The Hokey Pokey Clinic - A good place to turn yourself around:


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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    Nothing personal Dee-Dee but the last part of your post, which compares JonBenet with the MyTwinn Doll, is alsolutely creepy.
    Yes it IS creepy. Have you ever seen these dolls? I have. Patsy ordered one for JB that Christmas, dressed up in a pageant dress and tiara. When JB opened the box, she tossed it aside, saying "that doesn't look like me". As if the poor child was horrified at the doll herself.
    In their book DOI, Patsy said that when she first saw the MyTwinn doll in its white box, she had a "premonition" of JB in a coffin. HER words, not mine.
    BTW, these dolls, as they are available today, can be seen here:http://www.mytwinn.com
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Yes it IS creepy. Have you ever seen these dolls? I have. Patsy ordered one for JB that Christmas, dressed up in a pageant dress and tiara. When JB opened the box, she tossed it aside, saying "that doesn't look like me". As if the poor child was horrified at the doll herself.
    In their book DOI, Patsy said that when she first saw the MyTwinn doll in its white box, she had a "premonition" of JB in a coffin. HER words, not mine.
    BTW, these dolls, as they are available today, can be seen here:http://www.mytwinn.com
    That is creepy. The doll's eyes and Patsy's statement. Premonition, Patsy was nut's all right?


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  16. #9
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    what happened at the funeral and not only that make me think more and more of MSBP

    The mother attempts to gain attention and recognition for herself by putting on the public façade of dedicated and loving mother. However, when alone with her child she will subject them to abuse, both physical and emotional, as she tries to deliberately make them sick.

    Indicators that a parent may be suffering from Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome include but are not limited to a discrepancy between the child’s medical records and what actually seems logical to have happened,


    The mother attempts to portray an outward image of perfection. She shows compassion and devotion to her child by giving up much or all of her time


    etc,etc
    I've been doing some research lately and I read a lot about MSBP...it starts to make sense re PR and everything what happened...


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  18. #10
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    Also,I always felt that being Xmas played a big part in this...dunno why,just a feeling....maybe she was lonely,at Xmas time you need love,you want attention....JB was getting all of it,she was the beauty queen in that house...

    who got all the attention after the murder?why were the friends called over?the priest?to comfort HER....somehow I think she even liked the bad publicity....the whole world was paying attention....

    it's why some killers do it,isn't it?to be in the spotlight,doesn't matter that it's BAD publicity...


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  20. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Also,I always felt that being Xmas played a big part in this...dunno why,just a feeling....maybe she was lonely,at Xmas time you need love,you want attention....JB was getting all of it,she was the beauty queen in that house...

    who got all the attention after the murder?why were the friends called over?the priest?to comfort HER....somehow I think she even liked the bad publicity....the whole world was paying attention....

    it's why some killers do it,isn't it?to be in the spotlight,doesn't matter that it's BAD publicity...

    Attention is attention even if its negative....
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.


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  22. #12
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    Publicity

    I have often times heard through out the years that there in no such thing as BAD publicity.

    Patsy being a drama queen took what she could get and obviously played it to the hilt.


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  24. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Also,I always felt that being Xmas played a big part in this...dunno why,just a feeling....maybe she was lonely,at Xmas time you need love,you want attention....JB was getting all of it,she was the beauty queen in that house...

    who got all the attention after the murder?why were the friends called over?the priest?to comfort HER....somehow I think she even liked the bad publicity....the whole world was paying attention....

    it's why some killers do it,isn't it?to be in the spotlight,doesn't matter that it's BAD publicity...
    madeleine,
    If I thought all the above about Patsy I would have her diagnosed as suffering from some mental illness.

    I reckon all the drama stuff was Patsy's way of dealing with the death of JonBenet. This was her Persona, her interior representation of herself to the outer world.

    She was hiding behind all the friends, without them she had nobody to bounce off, there would have just been her and John!


    I do agree with you about Christmas though, something was the trigger, it could be the lack of videos or pictures, is a hint something else was going on?

    Why would that doll be ordered to be delivered to Access Graphics, thats one big smoking gun, what relationship does it have to Christmas?

    Why was a collection of JonBenet's photos deposited into the basement, someone was patently attempting to distance themselves from JonBenet?

    Some people think JonBenet was playing a surrogate adult role, and that Patsy was fully aware of this, e.g. pageants, and her ongoing sexualization, topped off with all the forensic evidence suggesting it was Patsy who deliberately asphyxaited JonBenet?

    So would Patsy be that immature as to be jealous of a six-year old girl, and end up whacking or semi-strangling her?


    There is stuff we do not know, lots of it is lying in an evidence-cage somewhere in a police depositary in Colorado. e.g. details about JonBenet's underwear!


    .


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  26. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    madeleine,
    So would Patsy be that immature as to be jealous of a six-year old girl, and end up whacking or semi-strangling her?

    There is stuff we do not know, lots of it is lying in an evidence-cage somewhere in a police depositary in Colorado. e.g. details about JonBenet's underwear!
    There are hugh dynamics in the jealousy factor and to answer you question
    madeleine, yes (sadly) it is entirely likely that PR was jealous of her 6 year old daughter, enough to kill her.

    I would love to know what is in the evidence vault! I was unware of the twinn doll being delivered to Acess Graphics. Learn something new everyday.
    Maybe it was delivered there because she as so large it would have been hard to hide it from JB coming via mail or ups. I don't know but a very good question/statement.


  27. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    I have often times heard through out the years that there in no such thing as BAD publicity.

    Patsy being a drama queen took what she could get and obviously played it to the hilt.
    Flatlander, I have a thread you might be interested in:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Che+Guevara
    Last edited by SuperDave; 05-30-2012 at 08:46 PM.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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