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Thread: Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#16

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    Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#16

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    Currently, we are considering Allison's husband to be a suspected person of interest in this case. There is a possible second party involved per MSM and it is okay to discuss that aspect, but please refrain from accusing anyone of murder at this juncture. Speculating is one thing, accusing is another.


    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169529"]Thread 1[/ame]

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    http://resources2.news.com.au/images...baden-clay.jpg
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    Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#16

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    Just on the comments about whether the white 4wd spotted on the night Allison went missing was indeed the little gold suzuki of the Baden-Clay seniors. I am thinking it doesn't probably fit. The suzuki is a small 4wd. The witness report said the blue 4wd was a smaller car than the white(maybe gold).. I am not sure there would be too many smaller 4wd's than the little suzukis..MOO
    MOO!

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    Some people are now of the opinion that police don't have enough for an arrest. However, Supt Ainsworth seems to be a highly respected professional and I recall him saying early on that they were confident in making an arrest. Why would a smart detective put out such a statement early on, if they did not have enough to know who the perp(s) is/are and that they could nail them? The comparison with Daniel Morcombe's case I believe is not justified. That case involved many unknowns and no body for many years.

    IMO police know exactly what happened, how it happened and who did it. IMO it's just a matter of finalising the necessary procedures and handing over to the DPP, who am sure, will also take their time to do their work properly, in particular as it appears this case is more complex than originally thought. All just my opinion.
    *** The above comment is my personal opinion and may be based on known facts or just my imagination ***


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    Originally posted by zookyliz
    I live close to the BC residence, and a mate of mine was driving past on the night that she went missing and there were cop cars there at 9pm (note, she apparently went missing at 10pm!). My mates sister later told me that when the police door knocked she asked about it and the cops said they were there for a domestic distrubance... and that they were looking for a body (this was about 5 days into her being missing). The domestic distrubance story was mentioned in the first few news stories, but then was taken out - maybe suppressed on request from the police???
    Would the police send two cars out? I thought one car with two police officers would be sufficient IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseClosed View Post
    Some people are now of the opinion that police don't have enough for an arrest. However, Supt Ainsworth seems to be a highly respected professional and I recall him saying early on that they were confident in making an arrest. Why would a smart detective put out such a statement early on, if they did not have enough to know who the perp(s) is/are and that they could nail them? The comparison with Daniel Morcombe's case I believe is not justified. That case involved many unknowns and no body for many years.

    IMO police know exactly what happened, how it happened and who did it. IMO it's just a matter of finalising the necessary procedures and handing over to the DPP, who am sure, will also take their time to do their work properly, in particular as it appears this case is more complex than originally thought. All just my opinion.
    I agree. I wasn't saying I don't think they will make an arrest. I just said I have been feeling it may take a little longer than expected, or than I had hoped. I have noted a couple of comments in the media the last few days from Police, making me think maybe they are trying to let people know it might be a bit slower going. I don't doubt they will get their person eventually. (the reference I made to Daniel Morcombe was from The commisioner, I believe, stating how long that took as a comparison. I agree it was a totally different scenario though)
    MOO!

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    As suggested earlier, if we move away from the possibility the husband did it, who else could have a motive? TM? I don't think so. She seems to have been co-operating with QPS from the beginning. No, no bikes or triads. This is still an intimate homicide and she knew her killer (as per QPS believes). Another family member from the victims side? No, don't think so. A male friend of Allison's? I feel that if she had a male friend, this would have already been reported by media, the same as TM.

    Any other people who could have had a motive? I just can't find any with the info we have at the moment!
    *** The above comment is my personal opinion and may be based on known facts or just my imagination ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mani View Post
    Earlier this evening there was a post about a local driving past on the evening that Allison went missing and seeing two police cars in the driveway.
    Would the police send two cars out? I thought one car with two police officers would be sufficient IMO.
    I don't think it was specified as 2 cars by the person who posted that?
    *** The above comment is my personal opinion and may be based on known facts or just my imagination ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfoldingTruth View Post
    I agree. I wasn't saying I don't think they will make an arrest. I just said I have been feeling it may take a little longer than expected, or than I had hoped. I have noted a couple of comments in the media the last few days from Police, making me think maybe they are trying to let people know it might be a bit slower going. I don't doubt they will get their person eventually. (the reference I made to Daniel Morcombe was from The commisioner, I believe, stating how long that took as a comparison. I agree it was a totally different scenario though)

    Sorry, I wasn't referring to you in particular as many people have made those comments in the last few days. And yes, they are indicating bit by bit that this will take longer than the public is expecting.
    *** The above comment is my personal opinion and may be based on known facts or just my imagination ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mani View Post
    Earlier this evening there was a post about a local driving past on the evening that Allison went missing and seeing two police cars in the driveway.
    Would the police send two cars out? I thought one car with two police officers would be sufficient IMO.
    Sending 2 cars, don't know. depends how understaffed they were. However I had my doubts on some of what was said re the police there that night. I outlined them back in the previous thread, I would post again but my brain is half asleep now. But timing doesn't necessarily fit, and if they had been called to a DV then, I would tend to think GBC would be officially POI.
    Last edited by UnfoldingTruth; 05-31-2012 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Deleted some info for personal reason. Sorry.
    MOO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseClosed View Post
    I don't think it was specified as 2 cars by the person who posted that?
    I went back and found the post by zookyliz and quoted it in post #9 and they say that 2 cars showed up at 9pm.

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    Can't think anymore .... off to slumberland I go. 'Nite.
    *** The above comment is my personal opinion and may be based on known facts or just my imagination ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseClosed View Post
    Can't think anymore .... off to slumberland I go. 'Nite.
    me too.
    MOO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfoldingTruth View Post
    Sending 2 cars, don't know. depends how understaffed they were. However I had my doubts on some of what was said re the police there that night.
    I think it depends on what else it happening locally, how busy they are or what sort of priority they classify the situaion when you make the 000 call.

    I live smack in the middle, borderline between two ambulance stations and two police stations and it's not that uncommon in my street, when calling emergency services, people end up with 2 ambulances when only one is needed and more cops cars than anyone would ever want sitting in front of their house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseClosed View Post
    As suggested earlier, if we move away from the possibility the husband did it, who else could have a motive? TM? I don't think so. She seems to have been co-operating with QPS from the beginning. No, no bikes or triads. This is still an intimate homicide and she knew her killer (as per QPS believes). Another family member from the victims side? No, don't think so. A male friend of Allison's? I feel that if she had a male friend, this would have already been reported by media, the same as TM.

    Any other people who could have had a motive? I just can't find any with the info we have at the moment!
    I read early on in these threads that ABC spoke 6 languages. It was supported by a media link but I can't link from my handheld sorry! Anyway - that is incredibly unique and unusual to me, I don't know anyone who has 6 languages in their kit bag. This is going to sound very implausible but what if ABC had some involvement in espoinage???

    Also keen to hear thoughts on my salon theory from late in the last thread???

    Not trying to stir up trouble here - I recognise why the main thoery is the focus. But genuinely trying to unearth another angle - the longer this goes on without arrest the more I think the answer is going to be very unexpected / left field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfoldingTruth View Post
    me too.
    Me three. Night all.....

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    Radster- I'm starting to think perhaps you are actually hearing some inside stuff.

    ****snipped****
    "Apparently GBC told one of the girls the next morning that "Mummy has fallen down a hole".

    Very early on when the thread started we had a poster who to me seemed very informed/informative. He/She stated that when the police arrived one of the girls said something strange to the police.

    To say she fell down a hole would be strange to say in the least and would also explain why they kept saying they were looking down old mine shafts etc.

    Keep digging there radster. Thumbs up

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    Originally Posted by Mouse Detective:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rudra
    Apologies, I don't post often, but try to read all the comments when I get the chance. I'm puzzled by the strong emphasis on DV in this case which has been brought up in many of the posts. I am not denying that DV may have been an issue in the marriage, and I am not denying that DV is a bad thing; but what confuses me is that it seems DV at times is being put forward for the motive of the murder, or even the cause of death.

    DV may have resulted in ABC's death, but speaking technically it was not the cause of her death: cause of death would be a blow to the head; drowning, suffocation etc. An as yet we don't know what COD was.

    A trickier question is whether DV by itself is the motivation for murder. I can see some people would believe it so; that there are men who are naturally inclined to inflicting violence on their spouses for the sole purpose of having control at any cost. But even then I would argue that DV is an outcome of a control issue. That is, the spouse who wants more control uses violence to get it. In fact there are many people who use violence to get control over others.

    I think I am trying to say that when it comes down to the basics, someone wanted to get control over ABC, and they did. When it comes to motive, the question is why did they want / need that control over her?

    I realise that this has been implicit in many of the discussions before, but I have never really seen the question of motive explored in detail so far.
    I agree "control" is at the heart of many of these more complex cases. Who may have become frustrated by the control Allison had? or Who felt that they had no control over Allison or the domain that she controlled?

    Motive - well there were a range of financial and relationship reasons. GBC had a mistress who the BC parents favoured and they possibly saw her as someone who could help revitalise the failing business, whereas Allison had already turned her interests to something that was more humanitarian and something that would benefit the girls directly, as well as other children - the Pathways program.

    The family name and strong and successful image was very important to the Baden-Clays, evidenced by their adoption of the Baden prefix, and the touting of NBC's hunting prowess. I feel the elder BC's saw themselves as leaders and above others. A big financial fall and business bust might have been the ultimate humiliation for this family. Gerard had for some reason decided to expand and take on larger premises at a time when people were downscaling or consolidating, and a lot of money was risked including the BC seniors money.

    They had invested everything into this, it wasn't working out well enough, and Allison had abandoned ship and gone her own way - possibly a way of feeling like she was doing something more worthwhile, and removing herself from the environment where the mistress had worked and staff had possibly known. Maybe Allison was sick of the financial problems and just wanted Gerard to get out of it all and simplify their life.

    Family pride and pressures on Gerard by his parents, particularly father, to live up to the standards and image set would have been a big issue. If he and Allison had been arguing and she was speaking about the affair, the money problems, the control of his parents etc, it could easily have escalated into him killing her. The expression 'the truth hurts' is taken to extreme in a sociopath or narcissist, (IMO) and when they hear things they don't want to hear, especially about themselves, they come to hate the source of that information and can easily go into a rage and have to immediately silence the person, eliminate them, the source of all their pain and problems as they see it. I believe that is what happened on that night. This would have been part of GBC's motive whether it was pre-meditated or not.

    If it was pre-meditated, there was the insurance policy and possibly also the issue of a divorce and settlement which would not be financially beneficial to the BC's, and there may have also been some sort of position in the company held by Allison, which if she withdrew would have a detrimental effect.

    If it wasn't premeditated, if Gerard got himself into problems with body disposal and needed help, help would have been provided by NBC, a choice to cover up would have been made to try to ensure the family name and image was preserved.

    This of course, is JMO. If it is true, makes me so sad to think of how someone can be considered so disposable, and used as a scapegoat for everyone elses mistakes and failings.

    Have considered other options but I can't see anything unless the entire police case is wrong.


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    Just rethinking possible motives if this crime was premeditated.

    1. Life insurance. Why would someone be so obvious and take out a recent life ins policy for what could be perceived as relevantly piddling amounts (rumours from $250k to $600k)?
    Maybe it was to 'topup' existing policies? As given the reported mortgage drawn upon Nigelaine's home of $300k? Wonder if GBC had similar 'keyman' insurance taken out at same time?
    2. Until potential beneficiaries are fully excluded as persons of interest, no Ins Coy is going to pay out anything in the near future.
    3. Property settlement issues - looks to me there may not be much to split, given their financial situation other than whatever financial interest remained in the business. After payback of family loan, payout of staff entitlements, ATO obligations, breaking of commercial lease etc could not be much..
    4. Children.
    5. New 'happy family' with potential new partner well accepted by GBC family and no 'reminder' around to make someone's fantasy awkward. More sympathy for GBC as a widower trying to raise those 3 little girls 'on his pwn' than being like everyone else having shared care arrangements and arguments over child support etc.

    These are just my rambling 3am thoughts and just speculation.

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    Another fantastic post itsthevibe. You are undervalued here.

    While the sleuthers sleep I can do some work : )

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    and to you too Woombite. : )

    My thanks button won't let me thank your post.

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    [QUOTE=itsthevibe;7989931]Motive - well there were a range of financial and relationship reasons. GBC had a mistress who the BC
    I feel the elder BC's saw themselves as leaders and above others. A big financial fall and business bust might have been the ultimate humiliation for this family. Gerard had for some reason decided to expand and take on larger premises at a time when people were downscaling or consolidating, and a lot of money was risked including the BC seniors money ....

    Family pride and pressures on Gerard by his parents, particularly father, to live up to the standards and image set would have been a big issue. If he and Allison had been arguing and she was speaking about the affair, the money problems, the control of his parents etc, it could easily have escalated into him killing her. The expression 'the truth hurts' is taken to extreme in a sociopath or narcissist, (IMO) and when they hear things they don't want to hear, especially about themselves, they come to hate the source of that information and can easily go into a rage and have to immediately silence the person, eliminate them, the source of all their pain and problems as they see it. ....

    SNAP! Vibe! Maybe we have all spent so much time on this forum that we are in sync with our thoughts? LOL
    Last edited by Woombite; 05-31-2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Typo

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