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Thread: NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #9

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    NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #9

    Please continue here.


    http://www.411gina.org/mauramurray.htm

    21-year-old Maura Murray disappeared on Monday, February 9, 2004 following a minor 1-car accident on Route 112 near Woodsville, New Hampshire.

    Previous threads:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19255"]#1[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26673"]#2[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35400"]#3[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37443"]#4[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39383"]#5[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103377"]#6[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125300"]#7[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146248"]#8[/ame]



    Other links:

    Charley Project - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/murray_maura.html

    Maura Murray Missing - http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/

    Nancy Grace America's Missing - http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2011...ricas-missing/
    FOR THE MISSING: PACIFIC NORTHWEST - Highlighting missing persons in the Pacific Northwest - www.facebook.com/missingnorthwest / www.twitter.com/MissingNW
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    HELP FIND MISSING 7-YEAR-OLD PATRICK ALFORD.

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    Still following Maura's case. I will always be wondering what happened to her.

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    Also still here for Maura, but mostly just lurk the thread. I am in Amherst/Granby/Hadley etc a great deal, and we hike the white mts quite often, so she is on my mind a lot. I also grew up very close to Hanson... So I feel a great affinity for this dear girl.

    Hoping for answers for her loved ones soon.
    “Peace is not the product of terror or fear. Peace is not the silence of cemeteries. Peace is not the silent result of violent repression. Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all." -Abp Oscar Romero

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    other thoughts on the vasi hit and run angle:


    In his statement, fred noted that he brought around 4,000 in cash with him for when he and Maura went looking for USED cars that Saturday.

    4,000 is a pretty hefty down payment even for a new car, yet alone a used car, so I really wonder if they were just planning on starting the car purchasing process that day or if they were in fact really wanting to land something that day.

    Also, wouldn't they be trading in maura's old car?

    Fred picked maura up in his new car and they went looking for used cars for Maura. Surely, they weren't keeping the saturn as a momento. I know each time I have gone to get a new car, I trade the one in that I am driving, therefore I bring it with me when I am car shopping.

    For the record. According to the five-part series done by Maribeth Conway on the maura murray case. Maura and her father had a three year old geo prizm picked out that according to Fred, they were going to buy the following week.

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    This is one case where I think almost all of the options/scenarios as to what may have happened are equally viable. Abduction, or suicide seem the most likely with walking off and being over come by the elements or fleeing to start a new life being slightly less likely in my opinion. I go back and forth between abduction and suicide. So baffling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    other thoughts on the vasi hit and run angle:


    In his statement, fred noted that he brought around 4,000 in cash with him for when he and Maura went looking for USED cars that Saturday.

    4,000 is a pretty hefty down payment even for a new car, yet alone a used car, so I really wonder if they were just planning on starting the car purchasing process that day or if they were in fact really wanting to land something that day.

    Also, wouldn't they be trading in maura's old car?

    Fred picked maura up in his new car and they went looking for used cars for Maura. Surely, they weren't keeping the saturn as a momento. I know each time I have gone to get a new car, I trade the one in that I am driving, therefore I bring it with me when I am car shopping.

    For the record. According to the five-part series done by Maribeth Conway on the maura murray case. Maura and her father had a three year old geo prizm picked out that according to Fred, they were going to buy the following week.
    Since the Saturn had major issues, it is not neccessary to bring it with you on a car hunt. After they find a car to buy, then they haggle later with the final sale with a trade in. The Saturn probably wasn't going to make a big dent in the sale price. The dealership will have it auctioned for parts. You can't just drive a car off the lot the first day you look at it anyway, because you need to get insurance, the registration, and it has to have an inspection sticker. Usually, it takes a week to get all the details together for the final sale. At any rate, maybe Fred had different plans for the Saturn other than a trade in. JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Since the Saturn had major issues, it is not neccessary to bring it with you on a car hunt. After they find a car to buy, then they haggle later with the final sale with a trade in. The Saturn probably wasn't going to make a big dent in the sale price. The dealership will have it auctioned for parts. You can't just drive a car off the lot the first day you look at it anyway, because you need to get insurance, the registration, and it has to have an inspection sticker. Usually, it takes a week to get all the details together for the final sale. At any rate, maybe Fred had different plans for the Saturn other than a trade in. JMO
    I agree with all that you said except the last bit. You can buy a car and drive it off the lot in the same day. Been there and done it plenty of times. Salesmen work hard to make it happen.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Since the Saturn had major issues, it is not neccessary to bring it with you on a car hunt. After they find a car to buy, then they haggle later with the final sale with a trade in. The Saturn probably wasn't going to make a big dent in the sale price. The dealership will have it auctioned for parts. You can't just drive a car off the lot the first day you look at it anyway, because you need to get insurance, the registration, and it has to have an inspection sticker. Usually, it takes a week to get all the details together for the final sale. At any rate, maybe Fred had different plans for the Saturn other than a trade in. JMO
    Hey McSpy! Love your posts here and on other threads.
    Just wanted to put in my two cents - you can, in fact, drive a car off the lot the day you first look at it. I did, twice. I traded in my then-current car both times. I called the insurance company from the dealership while they were trying to sell me that all-expensive warranty (10 years, ten zillion miles, everything covered EXCEPT what you actually need covered, etc.). My insurance agent was able to get me insurance over the phone, added to my current policy. This was with Allstate Insurance (not sure if that matters, perhaps cut-rate insurance companies would not provide this service?) I didn't have to get any special paperwork prior to leaving, other than the sale papers and the documents that typically go along with the sale, inc. the temp. plate information, etc.

    I also traded in my car on the spot - both times. However, the traded-in car was in good condition (fully operable). The first purchase, I put down approximately 3,000 along with my trade-in, but that appeared to be a decent chunk of change for the down payment - they only required 1,000. Just my thoughts!

    Thanks everyone in this thread for keeping Maura Murray on the first page here at WS - I wish Renner were posting more often, but I understand he needs to keep some things for the book.

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    I will add my 2 cents: I have bought a car on the same day and have never traded in a car. I always sell them to a private party. More money that way.

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    I think McSpy definitely brings up some good points.


    And I am also fully aware that each state is a little bit different when it comes to buying cars. I live in Illinois and we don't have to mess with inspections and things of that sort. Pretty much, you want a car, you go get the car, they slap temp tags on it and you drive it away that same day.

    But where maura was, I bet the process is much longer and tougher.

    I just am uncomfortable with fred murray's written statement he made just a few weeks after maura went missing.

    It seems (IMHO) that he is leaving out important details and in some cases was not making a lot of sense. His statement seemed detailed only when it came to mundane things while it appears that he glossed over parts of their day and night that to this day, there are so many questions lingering.

    And then the vasi hit and run angle.

    I swear, I never put a lot of belief into that. Ever since I have heard about maura murray, I have heard about this hit and run that took place, but I always believed (early on) that the hit and run happened far far away in an isolated area away from the school campus. And I always thought trying to tie maura up with what happened to petrit vasi was more of a hollywood type story line then something that could be factual.

    But I have now taken a hard look at the vasi hit and run and have to say that I can no longer comfortably dismiss it like i did in the past.

    The hit and run did happen very close to where maura was working (that is troubling fact No. 1 that I have physically saw for myself when I visited the UMASS campus this past summer) In fact, I couldn't believe just how close the hit and run site was to the dorm she was working the front desk.

    Her being found in that zombie like state by her supervisor actually aligns up way more accurately with the vasi hit and run then it does a conversation she had with her sister on the phone hours earlier.

    Seriously, how many events in life could cause someone to go into a zombie like state to the point they can't even function (that is how maura was described by her supervisor). I know everyone is wired differently, but she was obviously very troubled that night for some reason.

    Also, I just don't believe that she wouldn't have had the chance to leave her post. She is not guarding fort knox. She could've even had a fellow dorm person man her post for 20 minutes or so.

    She may have simply went and got something to eat. drinking didn't have to be involved at all in the vasi hit and run. Youngsters are constantly distracted while driving. She may have just lost her focus for a split second and wham.

    I don't know. I could be barking up the wrong tree. But I no longer am so dismissive of the vasi angle. regardless, it still doesn't solve what ultimately happened to maura, but if we can figure out much of why things went down the way they did in the days before maura went missing, we can get a better feel for what she may have been up to at the time of her wreck. And most importantly we can stop focusing on those days before she went missing and focus on what happened after she went missing.

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    I think it is possible she was involved in the Vasi incident although we will probably never know for sure. What I'm wondering is WHY she was involved in so many accidents in so short a time. I have sold auto and home insurance for 15 years and I can tell you it is very unusual for most people to have this many accidents this close together. Either she was severely distracted by something in her private life or else, as some have speculated and as I have wondered myself, she had a drinking problem and was driving under the influence during all these incidents. In my own personal experience in the insurance business, the frequency of accidents she was having is uncommon, although we occasionally see it with very young and inexperienced drivers and sometimes with very elderly drivers who are sight or hearing impaired.

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    I think its obvious to anyone with experience in the matter than Maura had developed a problem with alcohol. I think she had something troubling her in a deep way....just not sure what that was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogperson View Post
    I think it is possible she was involved in the Vasi incident although we will probably never know for sure. What I'm wondering is WHY she was involved in so many accidents in so short a time. I have sold auto and home insurance for 15 years and I can tell you it is very unusual for most people to have this many accidents this close together. Either she was severely distracted by something in her private life or else, as some have speculated and as I have wondered myself, she had a drinking problem and was driving under the influence during all these incidents. In my own personal experience in the insurance business, the frequency of accidents she was having is uncommon, although we occasionally see it with very young and inexperienced drivers and sometimes with very elderly drivers who are sight or hearing impaired.
    And it is possible that she was involved in the hit and run with vasi and no alcohol was involved in that particular situation. After that, she may have turned to alcohol to try and calm her nerves down and maybe the following accidents she had were more related to that. Basically, she may have been an emotional wreck after hitting vasi and never recovered enough through the weekend her father came and visited and never recovered by the monday she abruptly left her campus and drove to new hampshire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shefner View Post
    I agree with all that you said except the last bit. You can buy a car and drive it off the lot in the same day. Been there and done it plenty of times. Salesmen work hard to make it happen.....
    In Massachusetts? Also, It is doubtful they could get plates on the weekend. IIRC, they looked for a car on the weekend. I live in Mass., but as far as I know you can't get plates on the weekend and you have to have the car inspected. Maybe they streamlined it recently, but I doubt it. Massachusetts is so regulated. They don't use temporary plates.
    Last edited by McSpy; 06-07-2012 at 02:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    I think McSpy definitely brings up some good points.


    And I am also fully aware that each state is a little bit different when it comes to buying cars. I live in Illinois and we don't have to mess with inspections and things of that sort. Pretty much, you want a car, you go get the car, they slap temp tags on it and you drive it away that same day.

    But where maura was, I bet the process is much longer and tougher.

    I just am uncomfortable with fred murray's written statement he made just a few weeks after maura went missing.

    It seems (IMHO) that he is leaving out important details and in some cases was not making a lot of sense. His statement seemed detailed only when it came to mundane things while it appears that he glossed over parts of their day and night that to this day, there are so many questions lingering.

    And then the vasi hit and run angle.

    I swear, I never put a lot of belief into that. Ever since I have heard about maura murray, I have heard about this hit and run that took place, but I always believed (early on) that the hit and run happened far far away in an isolated area away from the school campus. And I always thought trying to tie maura up with what happened to petrit vasi was more of a hollywood type story line then something that could be factual.

    But I have now taken a hard look at the vasi hit and run and have to say that I can no longer comfortably dismiss it like i did in the past.

    The hit and run did happen very close to where maura was working (that is troubling fact No. 1 that I have physically saw for myself when I visited the UMASS campus this past summer) In fact, I couldn't believe just how close the hit and run site was to the dorm she was working the front desk.

    Her being found in that zombie like state by her supervisor actually aligns up way more accurately with the vasi hit and run then it does a conversation she had with her sister on the phone hours earlier.

    Seriously, how many events in life could cause someone to go into a zombie like state to the point they can't even function (that is how maura was described by her supervisor). I know everyone is wired differently, but she was obviously very troubled that night for some reason.

    Also, I just don't believe that she wouldn't have had the chance to leave her post. She is not guarding fort knox. She could've even had a fellow dorm person man her post for 20 minutes or so.

    She may have simply went and got something to eat. drinking didn't have to be involved at all in the vasi hit and run. Youngsters are constantly distracted while driving. She may have just lost her focus for a split second and wham.

    I don't know. I could be barking up the wrong tree. But I no longer am so dismissive of the vasi angle. regardless, it still doesn't solve what ultimately happened to maura, but if we can figure out much of why things went down the way they did in the days before maura went missing, we can get a better feel for what she may have been up to at the time of her wreck. And most importantly we can stop focusing on those days before she went missing and focus on what happened after she went missing.
    Possible, but her getting caught using someone else's credit card number could have been weighing on her mind too. Either way, she had something bothering her which eventually caused her overreaction to crashing her dad's car. Of course, she would have probably felt awful about her dad's wrecked car without any other issues hanging over her, but along with her other problems, the car crash just added more grief. I don't think she felt good about herself at the time. I believe her trip to NH was her attempt to hide out and think things over. JMO

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    Hey everyone ..I havn't been back to maura's thread for some time now . When the guy was going around and digging up details even after maura's father asked him to stop and we found out that he was doing it purely for profit and was almost trying to say he was a P I so even though he was trying to make money the details could help .Thats about when I left maura's forum I didn't agree with what he was doing everyday it seemed like he was or someone had read on his site or FB that this and that had happened as if there weren't enough scenario's allready and I know some maybe all of you were ok with what he was doing from my perspective he was someone trying to make money off a tradgedy while the parents were against it and trying to sell it as though he didnt care about the money . I don't know this is just my take of the whole thing i didn't agree or like it so i took a long break. But I see were not too far ahead from where we were when i left which is so sad . My take right now is untill they find maybe remains or if someone talks though i don't see that happening this case will stay with the scenario's for a while still...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanManEh View Post
    Hey everyone ..I havn't been back to maura's thread for some time now . When the guy was going around and digging up details even after maura's father asked him to stop and we found out that he was doing it purely for profit and was almost trying to say he was a P I so even though he was trying to make money the details could help .Thats about when I left maura's forum I didn't agree with what he was doing everyday it seemed like he was or someone had read on his site or FB that this and that had happened as if there weren't enough scenario's allready and I know some maybe all of you were ok with what he was doing from my perspective he was someone trying to make money off a tradgedy while the parents were against it and trying to sell it as though he didnt care about the money . I don't know this is just my take of the whole thing i didn't agree or like it so i took a long break. But I see were not too far ahead from where we were when i left which is so sad . My take right now is untill they find maybe remains or if someone talks though i don't see that happening this case will stay with the scenario's for a while still...

    You've probably already picked up on this, but we're all still discussing JR's blog ,if that's who you're referring to. He continues to post.

    I can definitely appreciate what you're saying about the family's wishes. At the same time, though, I think some of us are just glad to have someone looking into it, period.

    Just because we discuss what he's doing doesn't necessarily mean we support the way he's going about it, but anything he brings up is more than we had to go off of before, so it's nice to have something new to talk about. I don't think he has bad motives, but I'll agree that some of the angles he's taken have kind of gone down rabbit trails that probably didn't need to be explored, regarding other people who weren't involved in her disappearance.

    But still... he just may be the one to find out what happened. Nobody else seems to be trying. Frankly, I'd like to see someone as dedicated as he is look into some of the other cases I've been following that are incredibly frustrating. Yes, the family is entitled to their privacy, and in this case I believe that the family had nothing to do with Maura's disappearance, so I feel bad that their personal lives are being discussed and that their dirty laundry is being aired, and I sympathize with that and the fact that they probably want to protect Maura's reputation, especially if they really do not believe that any of the events prior to her disappearance had anything to do with what happened to her. On the other hand, you have other cases where the family does seem to be hiding details that, in my opinion, the public who is spending time and money supporting search efforts deserves to know, and this is why we have the JRs out there - to uncover things that wouldn't otherwise come out.

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  35. #18
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    To add to this a little bit... if you happen to look into the things Mr. Renner does, it is quite a bit more than just for the money. The work he had put in for the little Amy girl is excellent. It seems his heart is in the right place...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperKyle View Post
    To add to this a little bit... if you happen to look into the things Mr. Renner does, it is quite a bit more than just for the money. The work he had put in for the little Amy girl is excellent. It seems his heart is in the right place...
    Would agree, and bringing attention to a cold case has to be a good thing. I don't fault him for making a living at it anymore than I fault those of us who, let's face it, enjoy writing our thoughts and theories on websleuths.
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    I've been following this case for a while now....there are so many posts to read it can be all consuming. What a sad, sad case. Completely a mystery.

    Personally, I lean towards the theory that she succumbed to the elements trying to avoid being caught by police. Being the great runner she is, I believe she got further than anyone expected at the time and her remains in the woods not too far from the road. I think she panicked when she had the 2nd accident and all she could think was that she couldn't get caught drinking and driving with everything else that had been going on. I think she likely had a head injury (based on the cracked windshield) and combined with the alcohol, she just wasn't thinking clearly. By the time the panic subsided, she was in an impossible situation due to the weather, or possibly the head injury was bad enough she died from it.

    A question I have is: Is it a FACT that she was caught in credit card fraud? Is it verified anywhere or do we have to simply take Mr. Renner's word for it?

    I have no opinion one way or another that Mr. Renner is good or bad in this case. I've read his blog about MM, but haven't really checked him out otherwise. Much of his blog seems gossipy, but I'm glad someone is investigating. However, anyone can have a blog and say anything they want, so I'd like to know if this particular fact has been proven with any evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clueless View Post
    I've been following this case for a while now....there are so many posts to read it can be all consuming. What a sad, sad case. Completely a mystery.

    Personally, I lean towards the theory that she succumbed to the elements trying to avoid being caught by police. Being the great runner she is, I believe she got further than anyone expected at the time and her remains in the woods not too far from the road. I think she panicked when she had the 2nd accident and all she could think was that she couldn't get caught drinking and driving with everything else that had been going on. I think she likely had a head injury (based on the cracked windshield) and combined with the alcohol, she just wasn't thinking clearly. By the time the panic subsided, she was in an impossible situation due to the weather, or possibly the head injury was bad enough she died from it.

    A question I have is: Is it a FACT that she was caught in credit card fraud? Is it verified anywhere or do we have to simply take Mr. Renner's word for it?

    I have no opinion one way or another that Mr. Renner is good or bad in this case. I've read his blog about MM, but haven't really checked him out otherwise. Much of his blog seems gossipy, but I'm glad someone is investigating. However, anyone can have a blog and say anything they want, so I'd like to know if this particular fact has been proven with any evidence.
    IMHO, I don't think Maura hit her head at all. The cracked winshield was very likely caused by the air bag being deployed. It happened to my mother when she recently wrecked. She didn't hit her head but the force of the air bag deploying left her windshield cracked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    In Massachusetts? Also, It is doubtful they could get plates on the weekend. IIRC, they looked for a car on the weekend. I live in Mass., but as far as I know you can't get plates on the weekend and you have to have the car inspected. Maybe they streamlined it recently, but I doubt it. Massachusetts is so regulated. They don't use temporary plates.
    Just yesterday my niece bought a used car in Massachusetts and drove it off the lot.

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  45. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by clueless View Post
    A question I have is: Is it a FACT that she was caught in credit card fraud? Is it verified anywhere or do we have to simply take Mr. Renner's word for it?

    I have no opinion one way or another that Mr. Renner is good or bad in this case. I've read his blog about MM, but haven't really checked him out otherwise. Much of his blog seems gossipy, but I'm glad someone is investigating. However, anyone can have a blog and say anything they want, so I'd like to know if this particular fact has been proven with any evidence.
    The only "evidence" that has been provided is the redacted receipt information Renner provides, which isn't particularly incriminating in my opinion. These "facts" have not been corrobborated by anyone with the authority to do so.

    I remain skeptical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Birch View Post
    The only "evidence" that has been provided is the redacted receipt information Renner provides, which isn't particularly incriminating in my opinion. These "facts" have not been corrobborated by anyone with the authority to do so.

    I remain skeptical.
    Theres also a "mug shot" of sorts that i believe was taken by either security while in the dorm

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  49. #25
    clueless is offline "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    62
    Yeah, I saw the "mug shot". That has me highly skeptical as well. So, all we have is Mr. Renner's word that it happened, a very unusual "mug shot" and a supposed receipt where the signature has been removed. Credit card fraud is a serious accusation and Maura isn't here to either confirm or defend herself. If she was arrested, then where is her real mug shot and arrest record. If she wasn't and this was treated more like a theft by deception charge people get when they bounce a check, then although she wouldn't have been arrested for it, she still would have gone to court so that a judge could give sentencing. So, there should be an official record somewhere....not just a strange mug shot and supposed receipt. If the matter was solely handled by the school & campus police and no formal charges filed, there still should be some kind of proof. Until I see some official evidence, I'm calling BS on this one. Its just gossip and unproven at that.
    Clue


    Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
    “The key to change… is to let go of fear.” – Rosanne Cash

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