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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    He is a sadist, there is no doubt. He probably did it while she was alive.
    and for PBj to say manorville and lisk are different because of mutilation, there is no evidence to determine if there was mutilation of the victims who were skeletons when they were found. he could have spent weeks torturing and mutilating them for all we know.
    You are not especially good at this, are you? How about, you get yourself a pic of the mutilated tattoo and have close look? The cuts are straight, means, no muscle reaction when the cut was made. Those cuts were made post-mortem. And what about this mutilation part? I'll make it easy for you: If the head is more than 10 yards away from the torso, it's part of dismembering. Cutting or hacking someone to pieces and spread them all over the place, you know? As in not taking a complete body and wrap it in burlap. Complete vs incomplete. Got it! Please tell me you got it!
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  2. #92
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    Let's see if we can back on topic in a civilized manor.

    Just a reminder that particular discussion is about the possibility that the person(s) responsible for the murder of the butchered victims (and possibly the toddler and the Asian male) is a different serial killer than the person responsible for the GB4.

    So PLEASE, not one word here about SG, the GB4, CPH, JB, the Atlantic City victims, or anything to do with Oak Beach. Also, no stories rom 20 years ago about police corruption or teenage boys stuffing rocks in each other's mouths.

  3. #93
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    Nice to be back ...
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaslug44 View Post

    Quote:
    A female, non-Caucasian toddler thought to be 16 to 32 months old, who was also found April 4, is a blood relative of another woman found 7 miles away in Nassau County on April 11 near Jones Beach. "It is likely that these two individuals are mother and child," Dormer said.

    Police released images of hoop earrings and a rope necklace worn by the toddler, as well as two bracelets found with her adult relative. The bracelets are both gold in color, and have a pattern of Xs embedded with stones that resemble diamonds. The woman and child are believed to have been dead one to five years before their discovery.
    -Source
    Without reading the whole thread and asking while I read. I wanted to ask a new-b question.
    Just read post 4 and have they determined the mother and daughter to be black? The hoop earnings is common as being seen on young toddlers in the community. Around the age of 3 to 4. And the Xs I believer but not certain are in reference to Malcolm X. If the answer has been already discovered long ago than just disregard this newb-s posting.

    Any particular part of this thread would you recommend for a new-b?

    Important question..
    Was the toddler find by a tree besides water.
    If yes I have link to a similar practice.
    Last edited by :+:MrTT:+:; 07-05-2012 at 05:59 PM. Reason: fixed broken quote...........DONE EDITING.

    :+:Anneliese Michel:+:

    [21 September 19521 July 1976]

    [Second chapter twelfth verse of [
    :+:Philippians:+:]
    [Work out your own salvation, with fear and trembling]
    :+:Emily Rose:+:




  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by :+:MrTT:+: View Post
    Without reading the whole thread and asking while I read. I wanted to ask a new-b question.
    Just read post 4 and have they determined the mother and daughter to be black? The hoop earnings is common as being seen on young toddlers in the community. Around the age of 3 to 4. And the Xs I believer but not certain are in reference to Malcolm X. If the answer has been already discovered long ago than just disregard this newb-s posting.

    Any particular part of this thread would you recommend for a new-b?

    Important question..
    Was the toddler find by a tree besides water.
    If yes I have link to a similar practice.
    I know those XOXOXO things as "hugs and kisses". But different subcultures, maybe different meaning.
    No idea whether there was a tree ... but the link to the similar practice would be interesting anyway.

    This mother/daughter duo seems to indicate, he snatched the mother, who is otherwise consistent with his other victims in her private environment. Not much chances, a prostitute brings her baby to business, I think.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    I know those XOXOXO things as "hugs and kisses". But different subcultures, maybe different meaning.
    No idea whether there was a tree ... but the link to the similar practice would be interesting anyway.

    This mother/daughter duo seems to indicate, he snatched the mother, who is otherwise consistent with his other victims in her private environment. Not much chances, a prostitute brings her baby to business, I think.
    XO jewelry is fairly common in the United States. I don't think this has anything to do with Malcolm X. I think this is just one of those XO necklaces. I really don't think it's got anything to do with Malcolm X.

    When I heard of the baby wearing jewelry, I immediately thought that she was Latina. I don't know of any African-American babies wearing gold earrings, but it is very, very, very common in many different Hispanic cultures for babies to have their ears pierced. I wonder if mother and baby were Dominican or Puerto Rican?
    Do you have language questions or letters/documents that you'd like to have examined in order to determine the language background of the writer? I can help!

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie-chantal View Post
    XO jewelry is fairly common in the United States. I don't think this has anything to do with Malcolm X. I think this is just one of those XO necklaces. I really don't think it's got anything to do with Malcolm X.

    When I heard of the baby wearing jewelry, I immediately thought that she was Latina. I don't know of any African-American babies wearing gold earrings, but it is very, very, very common in many different Hispanic cultures for babies to have their ears pierced. I wonder if mother and baby were Dominican or Puerto Rican?
    I posted about the jewlery back early on in the thread where I had found the xo bracelet on Amazon. It is an exact match. I sent the link to Crime Stoppers.

  8. #98
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    About the Asian male (is he counted JD8?). Does anybody know, what happened with this possible identification as Jimmy Tsui from Stonybrook? Disappeared 1998 already, but was then 20 years old.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    You are not especially good at this, are you? How about, you get yourself a pic of the mutilated tattoo and have close look? The cuts are straight, means, no muscle reaction when the cut was made. Those cuts were made post-mortem. And what about this mutilation part? I'll make it easy for you: If the head is more than 10 yards away from the torso, it's part of dismembering. Cutting or hacking someone to pieces and spread them all over the place, you know? As in not taking a complete body and wrap it in burlap. Complete vs incomplete. Got it! Please tell me you got it!
    mutilation ≠ dismember

    I stated that we don't know if the G4 were mutilated because we found bare skeletons. The killer very well may have mutilated the G4 but left the bones unscathed and the skeleton in tact.

    As for JT's tattoo, I don't see the straight lines that you do.
    How can you tell the cuts were made post mortem?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Who is Jane Doe #9098 ?
    https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    mutilation ≠ dismember

    I stated that we don't know if the G4 were mutilated because we found bare skeletons. The killer very well may have mutilated the G4 but left the bones unscathed and the skeleton in tact.

    As for JT's tattoo, I don't see the straight lines that you do.
    How can you tell the cuts were made post mortem?
    No comment to the first part, anyone can read the posts before.

    On the second part, how do I know, the cuts were made post-mortem:
    If you cut a living person, said person feels pain. This leads too muscle reaction, which means, the cuts deviate in the direction of the muscle tension. No such deviation in the photos. Ergo, the victim was already dead.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!


  11. #101
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    straight lines on tattoo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    No comment to the first part, anyone can read the posts before.

    On the second part, how do I know, the cuts were made post-mortem:
    If you cut a living person, said person feels pain. This leads too muscle reaction, which means, the cuts deviate in the direction of the muscle tension. No such deviation in the photos. Ergo, the victim was already dead.
    Can you point me in the direction of the straight line in the attached image?
    I am having a hard time finding the straight line. Also, what if the victim was unconscious, sedated, or anesthetized? Couldn't you then cut them without muscle reaction? How do tattoo artists draw straight lines with their needle on living customers? (I actually don't know the answer to this)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Who is Jane Doe #9098 ?
    https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    Can you point me in the direction of the straight line in the attached image?
    Great, now I have to find a graphic program to paint lines in the pic and I am so untalented with those things.
    But if you look at the outer right, you see the cut starts with a round shape (entry point of the blade) and goes straight down and to the right.
    Parallel and to the left of it to it, you see another cut, also going straight from the start point down and right in the pic.
    The next pattern are three overlapping cuts, each of them straight but short except for #5, which shows in about the middle a little folding up of skin (I am not sure, whether this is from the original cut or from the puzzel work, the ME did here).
    #6 and #7 are both to the left of the group #3-#5. Both are straight cuts, but #7 is more in a downward-left direction. which indicates, the killer sat a little too near.
    Under #7, you see #8 and #9 in a perpendicular pattern. Interesting in it is, #8 runs also perpendicular to the skin tension, so with any kind of muscle tension, this one would be gaping. #8 is so straight, you can lay a ruler at it.
    And so it goes on and on. I hope that helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    I am having a hard time finding the straight line.
    Again, start on the right side of the pic. Or wait, till I found a graphic program and I find a way to paint it in the photo with some kind of bright neon color for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    Also, what if the victim was unconscious, sedated, or anesthetized? Couldn't you then cut them without muscle reaction? How do tattoo artists draw straight lines with their needle on living customers? (I actually don't know the answer to this)
    Tattoo artists needle ink in the skin layers. So two effects come to bear for them:
    a.) They can correct the straight line while under way, which is impossible with a blade.
    b.) Tattoos are not so deep as those cuts, so the pain is a lot less.

    Normal unconsciousness wouldn't be enough to prevent "hard-wired" muscle tension. The problem here is the reflex wiring of the nerves. You can suppress, what runs via your brain, but you can't prevent what goes through the nerve shortcut via your spine. And if someone could help me out with the correct English terms for that, I would appreciate it.
    Sedating would only knock out conscious reactions, not unconscious. So you would need full scale full anesthetics at least. Which would mean, at least a permanent drip and knowledge how to use it.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    I know those XOXOXO things as "hugs and kisses". But different subcultures, maybe different meaning.
    No idea whether there was a tree ... but the link to the similar practice would be interesting anyway.

    This mother/daughter duo seems to indicate, he snatched the mother, who is otherwise consistent with his other victims in her private environment. Not much chances, a prostitute brings her baby to business, I think.
    quote... but the link to the similar practice would be interesting anyway...End of quote.

    If you have entertain the idea it could be some kind of ritual killings.
    Than the first link you should find somewhat interesting. Its wayyy outside the box. And I don't think I would have posted for anyone else but you. Since you have studied the case and you have credentials. Just wanted you to look at it and see if anything here reminds you of what you have learned so far. Thank you for looking at it.


    On March 14, 1986, Fairfield police consulted experts before determining that a body of a suffocated newborn baby found lying on blue-and-white cloths placed atop burlap at Lake Mohegan was being given a Santeria funeral.
    The burlap, representing poverty, was pinned with crosses bearing the image of St. Lazarus, the patron saint of the poor. Scattered around the body were coins and pieces of fruit. Experts told police the baby's body was placed near water because African slaves were brought here by boat and near trees because trees symbolize life.


    In Reggae

    http://niceup.com/patois.html
    BABYLON : 1. the corrupt establishment, the "system," Church and State 2. the police, a policeman (1)

    BALD-HEAD : a straight person; one without dreadlocks; one who works for babylon (2)
    CROCUS BAG : a very large sack made of coarse cloth, like burlap (10)
    The burlap, representing poverty, was pinned with crosses bearing the image of St. Lazarus, the patron saint of the poor. Scattered around the body were coins and pieces of fruit. Experts told police the baby's body was placed near water because African slaves were brought here by boat and near trees because trees symbolize life. __________________

    :+:Anneliese Michel:+:

    [21 September 19521 July 1976]

    [Second chapter twelfth verse of [
    :+:Philippians:+:]
    [Work out your own salvation, with fear and trembling]
    :+:Emily Rose:+:




  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by :+:MrTT:+: View Post
    quote... but the link to the similar practice would be interesting anyway...End of quote.

    If you have entertain the idea it could be some kind of ritual killings.
    Than the first link you should find somewhat interesting. Its wayyy outside the box. And I don't think I would have posted for anyone else but you. Since you have studied the case and you have credentials. Just wanted you to look at it and see if anything here reminds you of what you have learned so far. Thank you for looking at it.


    On March 14, 1986, Fairfield police consulted experts before determining that a body of a suffocated newborn baby found lying on blue-and-white cloths placed atop burlap at Lake Mohegan was being given a Santeria funeral.
    The burlap, representing poverty, was pinned with crosses bearing the image of St. Lazarus, the patron saint of the poor. Scattered around the body were coins and pieces of fruit. Experts told police the baby's body was placed near water because African slaves were brought here by boat and near trees because trees symbolize life.


    In Reggae

    http://niceup.com/patois.html
    BABYLON : 1. the corrupt establishment, the "system," Church and State 2. the police, a policeman (1)

    BALD-HEAD : a straight person; one without dreadlocks; one who works for babylon (2)
    CROCUS BAG : a very large sack made of coarse cloth, like burlap (10)
    The burlap, representing poverty, was pinned with crosses bearing the image of St. Lazarus, the patron saint of the poor. Scattered around the body were coins and pieces of fruit. Experts told police the baby's body was placed near water because African slaves were brought here by boat and near trees because trees symbolize life. __________________
    Interesting idea and nice links. Normally around any kind of religious/magic kill site, as far as it goes with SKs, you find a lot of candles, maybe flowers (depending on religion), pieces of fruits, corn, or also crops. So all stuff, which would have been long disappeared at the time, LE found the body, with the exception of candles.
    Another way to determine something like that would be to see the blanket. Normally, it would be adorned with saints or religious symbols in case of a religious ritual. But since LE didn't show us the blanket, I can't say.
    So I am in a pinch here. That toddler couldn't have survived too long without mother and if the toddler would have been killed long before the mother, the mother would have run to the police. So, logically, they died about the same time. Which makes the mother one victim in a series with a very clear signature. From the behavioral side, I wouldn't say, this killer is religious delusional, at least not in the primary diagnosis, but due to lack of evidence for or against, I can't exclude, he felt ashamed of killing a little child and therefore did some kind of ritual there as a compensation attempt. Which would, if the police would show us that blanket for example, tell us something about the killer.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  15. #105
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    After copying the tattoo on JT and opening it in a photo program...changing the resolution, shading, etc., the cuts do not seem random and almost appear to be a written message. Hard to determine but it looks like, starting at the top of the feathers, it says something like, "S or 'J" I CAN! (then just to the right) the number ...1964 and under that more words.

    Maybe someone who is really good at photo work could do a better job.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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