Page 1 of 27 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 669

Thread: The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Puget Sound area, WA
    Posts
    20,589

    The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

    Please continue here!


    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8961"]Thread #1[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59845"]Thread #2[/ame]

    Thread #3 -
    pulled
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86566"]Thread #4[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133850"]Thread #5[/ame]

    FOR THE MISSING: PACIFIC NORTHWEST - Highlighting missing persons in the Pacific Northwest - www.facebook.com/missingnorthwest / www.twitter.com/MissingNW
    STILL DOING IT FOR DYLAN GROENE. REST IN PEACE.

    HELP FIND MISSING 7-YEAR-OLD PATRICK ALFORD.

    FOOTY/SOCCER FAN? Join us here.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SheWhoMustNotBeNamed For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,573
    Is there any possibility of restoring Thread #3? There were some personal issues which were addressed but those got cleaned up. Never did know why the entire thread was pulled.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Missouri Mule For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Illinois/St. Louis Metro Area
    Posts
    1,494
    Here a , there a , everywhere a

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to neverletgo For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,476
    Did they ever re-examine the house. I just wonder if there were any grounds they could have been hidden in, or if they went back and did a luminol test they would find anything. It looks like whoever did this tidied up afterwards - but why? Why make it look like there was no struggle when it was always going to be obvious they did not leave of their own free will?

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to brit1981 For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    793
    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    Did they ever re-examine the house. I just wonder if there were any grounds they could have been hidden in, or if they went back and did a luminol test they would find anything. It looks like whoever did this tidied up afterwards - but why? Why make it look like there was no struggle when it was always going to be obvious they did not leave of their own free will?

    I would disagree that there are no signs of a struggle. There is evidence to indicate otherwise but unfortunately we will never know how much evidence was contaminated and destroyed by the 18 people in and out of the house on Sunday. And I would disagree that the house looked tidied up by anyone. The professional hitman/professional cleaners theory was pretty much destroyed by the evidence from the get-go.

    There is no basement under the house. There is a crawl space that is literally that with no access from inside the house thru a trap door or anything. If the remains were buried on the grounds it would have been obvious at the time. And besides it would have taken considerable time to bury 3 bodies in a hurry like that. The remains are not there.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  10. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,476
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I would disagree that there are no signs of a struggle. There is evidence to indicate otherwise but unfortunately we will never know how much evidence was contaminated and destroyed by the 18 people in and out of the house on Sunday. And I would disagree that the house looked tidied up by anyone. The professional hitman/professional cleaners theory was pretty much destroyed by the evidence from the get-go.

    There is no basement under the house. There is a crawl space that is literally that with no access from inside the house thru a trap door or anything. If the remains were buried on the grounds it would have been obvious at the time. And besides it would have taken considerable time to bury 3 bodies in a hurry like that. The remains are not there.
    Fair point, but I thought the handbags had been placed neatly in a line? Was that just a media myth? What were the signs of a struggle. If there was a struggle do you thin that indicates more than one kidnapper. As three women might be able to overpower one person on their own, and a struggle indicates a fight as opposed to someone threatening them into submission with a gun or something. So that makes me thin there was more than one kidnapper and they were not armed. What do you think?

  11. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,573
    My personal opinion is that there was some evidence left behind. Also it is my opinion that the purses may have been looked at by the people who were in the house for clues to where the women were although I don't know that to be a fact. There is one published account where Mrs. McCall was said to have said that stuff was "rolling" out of the purses.

    It is possible that whoever entered the house had on gloves and it is possible that the women were not all taken at the same time. Sherrill was "available" to be taken as soon as about 11:15 PM that night a full three and half or more hours before the girls arrived. The girls may not even have known she was not in the home and merely went to bed.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Missouri Mule For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,476
    True. I think this is possibly one of the creepiest cases I have heard of, the idea that three fit people just living their lives can be just disappeared in these circumstances. It really is chilling.

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to brit1981 For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,573
    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    True. I think this is possibly one of the creepiest cases I have heard of, the idea that three fit people just living their lives can be just disappeared in these circumstances. It really is chilling.
    I'm not sure how far into this case you are but if I might suggest something it would be to look into the subjects of the grand jury investigation of 1994. The one thing that intrigues me the most is what the motive was.

    But you do make an important point, nevertheless. There were certainly some "creepy" people on the streets at that time. There is almost an endless list of names to choose from but I would begin with the GJ3 and work from there.

    And also post #562 in Thread #5 is, in my view, very close to what probably happened.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Missouri Mule For This Useful Post:


  17. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Illinois/St. Louis Metro Area
    Posts
    1,494


    Bumping for Suzie, Stacy, and Sherrill.
    Here a , there a , everywhere a

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to neverletgo For This Useful Post:


  19. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    69
    I just learned about this case on Disappeared shown on the OWN network. I can't believe I haven't heard of this before. I contacted 48 Hours in hopes of getting a copy of their program on the case, but it is no longer available. It was on Youtube, but not anymore. If anyone has an extra copy, I would be grateful if I could buy it from you. My e-mail is mickfan2000@yahoo.com. Thanks!

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to fullmoon For This Useful Post:


  21. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    22,198
    Welcome to WS and the 3MW threads, fullmoon.
    We are, I know not how, double in ourselves, so that what we believe we disbelieve, and cannot rid ourselves of what we condemn. (Michel de Montaigne)

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wfgodot For This Useful Post:


  23. #13
    Auramyst's Avatar
    Auramyst is offline One should look for what is, not for what one thinks should be ~Albert Einstein
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    130
    Fullmoon,
    I'll see if I can find anything online.
    Meanwhile....
    Welcome to WS !
    All posts are my opinion

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Auramyst For This Useful Post:


  25. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    SO, CA
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Auramyst View Post
    Fullmoon,
    I'll see if I can find anything online.
    Meanwhile....
    Welcome to WS !
    Yes, and please post whatever you find here. Many thanks !

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to former central time For This Useful Post:


  27. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    69
    Thank you Auramyst and wfgodot for the welcome. I can't seem to get enough information on this case. It's been 20 years and I've never even heard of this case other than on Disappeared and websleuths. Amazing. This is truly a mystery. My first impressions watching Disappeared is:

    1. The reason given why the two girls left Jannell's house at 2 a.m. is that there was no room for them. I realize there were relatives visiting from out of town staying there, but I can't imagine asking my daughter's friends to leave the house in the middle of the night because there is no room. I would somehow find room.

    2. As in all cases of crime and cold cases, you look at who were the last people to see the victims? Again, Janelle. Not saying she is involved, but there may be something she's holding back.

    3. Janelle and her bf are first on the scene of the crime. I am a little surprised that they went into the house on their own. I can't imagine doing this myself at that age, or even now, even if the door was unlocked. I may have opened the door and called out, but I would not have gone in. I would have thought the girls were not home because they had planned something else for the day. Moreover, I would never decide to listen to messages on someone's answering machine. It would consider that an invasion of privacy.

    4. Janelle said she answered the phone while in the house. Again, I would not have done so. I would figure that if someone wanted to contact me, they would have called me at my own home. Then Janelle said the call was obscene, but she couldn't remember what was said. I have received obscene calls twice in my life, at separate times, and after all these years, I still remember what was said. Something is just odd about Janelle's account.

    5. I think all of this went down between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m., when it was still dark out and no immediate threat of the sun coming up. I think it was someone the girls knew. Perhaps Suzie peaked out of the blinds because someone she knew had knocked on her window, calling for her to open the door because they didn't want to awaken Sherrill. Since she knows who the person (s) are, she opens the door. Maybe they wanted her to loan them some money. But they were obviously desperate. Sherrill was awakened by the commotion, perhaps she even threatened to call police if they didn't leave, and it went downhill from there. All three could identify the perps so all three had to be dealt with. I don't think this was planned. I firmly believe the perps were known to the girls. There was no sign of forced entry. I don't think it was someone pretending to be a utility worker knocking on the door in the middle of the night as a ruse to get them to open the door. I don't care if it's the police, I'm not opening my door to anyone in the middle of the night. Just not going to happen!

    Does anyone know if Janelle's boyfriend who went with her that morning has been identified? Did he go with her because she didn't have a car to go and check on the girls, or was he supposed to be going with the girls to the water park? If the later, I would find that odd. This trip would be planned by the girls. I can't imagine my girlfriends getting together for something like that, and one of them wants to bring a boyfriend on the trip.

    Well, those are my first impressions. I better get back to reading the posts on this message board regarding this case so I can catch up. Thanks again for your kind welcome!

  28. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to fullmoon For This Useful Post:


  29. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,573
    You're pretty much up to speed. I would add two minor details. The girls left at 2:20 AM from Battlefield and would have arrived at about 2:50 AM if they didn't get delayed. It was about 11.6 miles.

    I believe Jannelle's bf was her future husband, Mike Henson. I'm not certain if they are currently married.

    I would also add that since Sherrill's whereabouts are unaccounted for after 11:15 PM she could have been abducted anytime after that and may not have been in the house when the girls arrived. It is also possible her car was not in the carport when they arrived and her car was being returned which is why Suzie might have let the perp(s) in. There is no evidence for this but it can't be discounted either.

    Since the prosecutor surfaced the GJ3 for some reason (although not indicted) I would want to eliminate them first of all. It is my belief that two of them are in prison and the third one's location is undetermined. Since Robert Cox's name came up during this time and his alibi collapsed his actual participation in this crime is uncertain. Some believe he is knowledgeable of the burial site.

    It is probable (as espoused by some) that if the GJ3 were involved, they had help after the fact and more likely than not the women were taken out to the Rogersville/Northview area (east of Springfield) where they may have met their demise although this is a theory based on probable routes out of town.

    It is believed by some that the dig in the Cassville (southwest of Springfield) area was based on good information. What was obtained was put under seal and we don't know what was found. The later dig up near Northview is not believed to have any value.

    The motive is not known to the public.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  30. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Missouri Mule For This Useful Post:


  31. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    793
    Quote Originally Posted by fullmoon View Post
    Thank you Auramyst and wfgodot for the welcome. I can't seem to get enough information on this case. It's been 20 years and I've never even heard of this case other than on Disappeared and websleuths. Amazing. This is truly a mystery. My first impressions watching Disappeared is:

    1. The reason given why the two girls left Jannell's house at 2 a.m. is that there was no room for them. I realize there were relatives visiting from out of town staying there, but I can't imagine asking my daughter's friends to leave the house in the middle of the night because there is no room. I would somehow find room.

    2. As in all cases of crime and cold cases, you look at who were the last people to see the victims? Again, Janelle. Not saying she is involved, but there may be something she's holding back.

    3. Janelle and her bf are first on the scene of the crime. I am a little surprised that they went into the house on their own. I can't imagine doing this myself at that age, or even now, even if the door was unlocked. I may have opened the door and called out, but I would not have gone in. I would have thought the girls were not home because they had planned something else for the day. Moreover, I would never decide to listen to messages on someone's answering machine. It would consider that an invasion of privacy.

    4. Janelle said she answered the phone while in the house. Again, I would not have done so. I would figure that if someone wanted to contact me, they would have called me at my own home. Then Janelle said the call was obscene, but she couldn't remember what was said. I have received obscene calls twice in my life, at separate times, and after all these years, I still remember what was said. Something is just odd about Janelle's account.

    5. I think all of this went down between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m., when it was still dark out and no immediate threat of the sun coming up. I think it was someone the girls knew. Perhaps Suzie peaked out of the blinds because someone she knew had knocked on her window, calling for her to open the door because they didn't want to awaken Sherrill. Since she knows who the person (s) are, she opens the door. Maybe they wanted her to loan them some money. But they were obviously desperate. Sherrill was awakened by the commotion, perhaps she even threatened to call police if they didn't leave, and it went downhill from there. All three could identify the perps so all three had to be dealt with. I don't think this was planned. I firmly believe the perps were known to the girls. There was no sign of forced entry. I don't think it was someone pretending to be a utility worker knocking on the door in the middle of the night as a ruse to get them to open the door. I don't care if it's the police, I'm not opening my door to anyone in the middle of the night. Just not going to happen!

    Does anyone know if Janelle's boyfriend who went with her that morning has been identified? Did he go with her because she didn't have a car to go and check on the girls, or was he supposed to be going with the girls to the water park? If the later, I would find that odd. This trip would be planned by the girls. I can't imagine my girlfriends getting together for something like that, and one of them wants to bring a boyfriend on the trip.

    Well, those are my first impressions. I better get back to reading the posts on this message board regarding this case so I can catch up. Thanks again for your kind welcome!
    Since most of this is pure speculation and your opinion I will only address what you appear to state as fact in your point #1: Suzie and Stacy were not told there was no room for them to sleep at the Kirby's. In fact Mrs. Kirby made preparations for them to stay there. Not feeling well all evening, Suzie made the decision to return home and sleep in her new waterbed which was a graduation gift from her mom. She must have extended an invitation to Stacy to go home with her. It has been speculated by others that it was Janelle who sent Suzie away, not expecting Stacy to go with her. That is simply not true.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  32. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Hurricane For This Useful Post:


  33. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    69

    Speculation or fact?

    My apologies to Mrs. Kirby if she invited the girls to stay. I was relying on what was said in the documentary "Disappeared," which states that the girls could not stay there because there was no room at Janelle's house. The clip can be seen on Youbube at [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6r_ADx0fOI"]Disappeared - The Springfield Three - YouTube[/ame]. At 6:04 into the clip, it states:

    "After a long night of celebrating, the girls are ready to settle in for the night. But Janelle's house is packed with out of town relatives. They can't stay there afterall."

    Was that an error in the documentary?

  34. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,573
    Actually, they could have stayed there according to Jannelle. The narration is "sloppy" to be charitable. There is no first person account directing the girls to leave for Suzie's house. In fact, I believe Jannelle states she "begs" them to stay and could have stayed on the living room floor.

    It is not so much an "error" but a subjective statement that the circumstances had changed which led Suzie to want to return home instead and Stacy followed her believing the accommodations would be more to her liking.

    Like so many things this was the "perfect storm." Had the girls not gone there and only Sherrill went missing Suzie would have, more likely than not, been able to finger a perp or perps. Additionally, if Stacy had not followed Suzie home, and since she was tight with Suzie, she probably would have been able to brief the police on the likely perp or perps.

    Almost nothing made this case easy to solve and it may never be solved. From what I gather the police are buried in other more recent cases and this one has had to take a back seat.

    I think the informed consensus is that it will take a confession to bring closure to this case or some witness who comes forth to finger the perp or perps.

    There is an enormous amount of material accumulated at the police station which has been carefully documented and gone over with a fine toothed comb several times by different officers and agencies.

    My personal opinion, for whatever it may be worth, is to look at the GJ3 and Robert Cox. I think that any one of these four individuals knows what happened but isn't talking; at least not now.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  35. The Following User Says Thank You to Missouri Mule For This Useful Post:


  36. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    793
    Quote Originally Posted by fullmoon View Post
    My apologies to Mrs. Kirby if she invited the girls to stay. I was relying on what was said in the documentary "Disappeared," which states that the girls could not stay there because there was no room at Janelle's house. The clip can be seen on Youbube at Disappeared - The Springfield Three - YouTube. At 6:04 into the clip, it states:

    "After a long night of celebrating, the girls are ready to settle in for the night. But Janelle's house is packed with out of town relatives. They can't stay there afterall."

    Was that an error in the documentary?
    You need to go back and read the documents from the time of the crime and what Kathy Kirby has said, which is that she got back up out of bed when all the kids returned from the Elder's party and prepared a place for both Suzie and Stacy to sleep. It was late and for all she knew the kids (and that was classmates & friends, not just females) planned to leave early for Branson, so she did not want them leaving again to go somewhere else. She was trying to get everyone settled down for the night. But Suzie and Stacy declined to stay there.

    I would not use the word "documentary" when discussing the programs "Disappeared", "Vanished", or "48 HRS" and their reporting on this case.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  37. The Following User Says Thank You to Hurricane For This Useful Post:


  38. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    SO, CA
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    You need to go back and read the documents from the time of the crime and what Kathy Kirby has said, which is that she got back up out of bed when all the kids returned from the Elder's party and prepared a place for both Suzie and Stacy to sleep. It was late and for all she knew the kids (and that was classmates & friends, not just females) planned to leave early for Branson, so she did not want them leaving again to go somewhere else. She was trying to get everyone settled down for the night. But Suzie and Stacy declined to stay there.

    I would not use the word "documentary" when discussing the programs "Disappeared", "Vanished", or "48 HRS" and their reporting on this case.
    Hurricane, thanks for the correction or clarification. Most of the general ‘accepted accounts’ of this story have all either said to the effect ‘it was too crowded at the Kirby house, so the girls left,’ or given that clear impression. My guess is, it was a supposition made early on and just stuck.

    Ms. Kirby may very well have made plans for the girls to stay and said so in the initial reports. May I offer a little skepticism to the effect, would you not have said the same thing ? The two girls stopped by your house and leave, that much is indisputable. They go missing, in the immediate wake what do you say to camera lights, media accounts, LE and other inquiring minds ? A) The house was too full of relatives from out of town, you girls have to go home, or B) I urged them to stay and fixed a place for them to sleep. Exactly, wouldn’t we all chose 'B.’ This isn’t to say that’s not what happened and Ms. Kirby’s intent. Personally, as a dispassionate observer (as a juror would be), I believe she was more agnostic where the real dispute and tension lay with the three girls, to which we’ll never know what about or why as two of them are dead.

    I take issue with the blanket condemnation of the national reports on this case. Having worked in the electronic media for over twenty years, I know most people don’t like stories reported about them. Not liking something and being 'grossly inaccurate’ are not the same thing. All too often people will say, 'I never said that,’ you show them the tape, then it turns to, '...well not in that context,’ show them the context, it turns to, '...well, that’s not what I mean.’ Politicians are great at it and 'spin doctoring’ is a sub science. This isn’t to say there hasn’t been sloppy reporting done, or less than careful in checking simple facts. Or, points have been largely ignored which might be more important to the dialogue. Understand too, with the contemporary stories coming from the, mostly TV media in Springfield, will be done by people often way to young to have remembered that time nor were living in the area then.

    Personally, I have only seen the ‘Disappeared’ program and while not overjoyed by it myself, I found its only real failing was rehashing most of what was known or widely reported. It also appeared spoon fed from LE. While not questioning LE’s ethics and accounts, it is one account. We see the Great Civil Rights Movement of the 60‘s through more windows than those provided by Southern Sheriffs, do we not ? But, the producers of that program are cranking out massive quantity of programing, which to be fair is probably reasonably accurate. Do they give it the 60 Minutes Mike Wallace treatment ? No, neither did 48 Hours when it was kicking. But, that proves my point before. Many also don’t like 60 Minutes when they do stories about them either, but not because they’re wrong.

  39. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to former central time For This Useful Post:


  40. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    793
    Quote Originally Posted by former central time View Post
    Hurricane, thanks for the correction or clarification. Most of the general ‘accepted accounts’ of this story have all either said to the effect ‘it was too crowded at the Kirby house, so the girls left,’ or given that clear impression. My guess is, it was a supposition made early on and just stuck.

    Ms. Kirby may very well have made plans for the girls to stay and said so in the initial reports. May I offer a little skepticism to the effect, would you not have said the same thing ? The two girls stopped by your house and leave, that much is indisputable. They go missing, in the immediate wake what do you say to camera lights, media accounts, LE and other inquiring minds ? A) The house was too full of relatives from out of town, you girls have to go home, or B) I urged them to stay and fixed a place for them to sleep. Exactly, wouldn’t we all chose 'B.’ This isn’t to say that’s not what happened and Ms. Kirby’s intent. Personally, as a dispassionate observer (as a juror would be), I believe she was more agnostic where the real dispute and tension lay with the three girls, to which we’ll never know what about or why as two of them are dead.

    I take issue with the blanket condemnation of the national reports on this case. Having worked in the electronic media for over twenty years, I know most people don’t like stories reported about them. Not liking something and being 'grossly inaccurate’ are not the same thing. All too often people will say, 'I never said that,’ you show them the tape, then it turns to, '...well not in that context,’ show them the context, it turns to, '...well, that’s not what I mean.’ Politicians are great at it and 'spin doctoring’ is a sub science. This isn’t to say there hasn’t been sloppy reporting done, or less than careful in checking simple facts. Or, points have been largely ignored which might be more important to the dialogue. Understand too, with the contemporary stories coming from the, mostly TV media in Springfield, will be done by people often way to young to have remembered that time nor were living in the area then.

    Personally, I have only seen the ‘Disappeared’ program and while not overjoyed by it myself, I found its only real failing was rehashing most of what was known or widely reported. It also appeared spoon fed from LE. While not questioning LE’s ethics and accounts, it is one account. We see the Great Civil Rights Movement of the 60‘s through more windows than those provided by Southern Sheriffs, do we not ? But, the producers of that program are cranking out massive quantity of programing, which to be fair is probably reasonably accurate. Do they give it the 60 Minutes Mike Wallace treatment ? No, neither did 48 Hours when it was kicking. But, that proves my point before. Many also don’t like 60 Minutes when they do stories about them either, but not because they’re wrong.
    Maybe there's a problem with using the "accepted accounts" without verification. Lies, rumors, pure speculation, and opinions which most often are offered without any circumstancial evidence whatsoever at the very least are tainting innocent peoples lives here. Some people should remember, "There but for the grace of God go I". I believe that Kathy Kirby has always been honest and forthcoming, wanting nothing more than to help and see this case solved. As the evening parties wound into the early morning hours she did her best to end it by trying to keep the girls there and attempting to get them down for what was left for the night. And I believe that way too much has been made of this supposed tension between the 3 girls. Could there have been some tension? Probably. Janelle had a steady boyfriend who she later married. Most all of her activities would have centered around their dating relationship as a couple. Could she have wanted it both ways; could she have been jealous of Suzie & Stacy's friendship excluding her? Quite possibly, but I see no evidence of anything more than that.

    Since you have not seen the 48 HRS program on this case I will just briefly point out that the program spent something like 12 minutes time (going on memory now but I have actually timed it) covering the kidnapping/abduction of two kids left in a running car by their mom at or near the bridal shop where Stacy had done modeling work. The kidnapper was stealing a car which just happened to have a couple of young kids in the backseat and was caught a couple of hours later on I-44, I believe it was. This clearly had nothing to do with the 3MW case and was resolved by the time 48 HRS was edited before airing on TV that first time. So 48 HRS clearly could have used those 12 minutes for more important details on the 3MW case if they had been more concerned about investigative reporting instead of human interest stories and TV ratings.

    "Vanished" was clearly written and produced to make this case appear as if it was front page news again in an effort to get HBO to buy the project and pick up the costs beyond what they had already agreed to. Kathee Baird has said they probably have 6 more hours of taped interviews with her that they didn't use. They probably have twice that much with Janis McCall. HBO is not likely to ever pick up this project because it is not current front page news and really too old (or perhaps not old enough) to be a good human interest story for ratings. It may take another generation or two for that, unless something were to happen such as the remains are found.

    As you said, everything has a spin.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  41. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hurricane For This Useful Post:


  42. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,573
    Quote Originally Posted by former central time View Post
    Hurricane, thanks for the correction or clarification. Most of the general ‘accepted accounts’ of this story have all either said to the effect ‘it was too crowded at the Kirby house, so the girls left,’ or given that clear impression. My guess is, it was a supposition made early on and just stuck.

    Ms. Kirby may very well have made plans for the girls to stay and said so in the initial reports. May I offer a little skepticism to the effect, would you not have said the same thing ? The two girls stopped by your house and leave, that much is indisputable. They go missing, in the immediate wake what do you say to camera lights, media accounts, LE and other inquiring minds ? A) The house was too full of relatives from out of town, you girls have to go home, or B) I urged them to stay and fixed a place for them to sleep. Exactly, wouldn’t we all chose 'B.’ This isn’t to say that’s not what happened and Ms. Kirby’s intent. Personally, as a dispassionate observer (as a juror would be), I believe she was more agnostic where the real dispute and tension lay with the three girls, to which we’ll never know what about or why as two of them are dead.

    I take issue with the blanket condemnation of the national reports on this case. Having worked in the electronic media for over twenty years, I know most people don’t like stories reported about them. Not liking something and being 'grossly inaccurate’ are not the same thing. All too often people will say, 'I never said that,’ you show them the tape, then it turns to, '...well not in that context,’ show them the context, it turns to, '...well, that’s not what I mean.’ Politicians are great at it and 'spin doctoring’ is a sub science. This isn’t to say there hasn’t been sloppy reporting done, or less than careful in checking simple facts. Or, points have been largely ignored which might be more important to the dialogue. Understand too, with the contemporary stories coming from the, mostly TV media in Springfield, will be done by people often way to young to have remembered that time nor were living in the area then.

    Personally, I have only seen the ‘Disappeared’ program and while not overjoyed by it myself, I found its only real failing was rehashing most of what was known or widely reported. It also appeared spoon fed from LE. While not questioning LE’s ethics and accounts, it is one account. We see the Great Civil Rights Movement of the 60‘s through more windows than those provided by Southern Sheriffs, do we not ? But, the producers of that program are cranking out massive quantity of programing, which to be fair is probably reasonably accurate. Do they give it the 60 Minutes Mike Wallace treatment ? No, neither did 48 Hours when it was kicking. But, that proves my point before. Many also don’t like 60 Minutes when they do stories about them either, but not because they’re wrong.
    I agree with Hurricane's account of what took place here. I would add that he has done extensive investigation into the case and what he brings to the table should be taken seriously.

    I agree completely about the girls and the mother. I don't believe there is anything there.

    The account about the attempted kidnappings and apprehension did in fact consume a good deal of time of the program which contributed nothing of substance to the case whatever.

    The filming of the cops stopping drunken motorists and the like was also of little value. There was a somewhat interesting segment where a letter from the jail was sent to the Levitt house which also consumed a lot of time as well as the human interest story of the McCalls.

    But probably the most interesting and important thing to take away from the "48 Hours" piece was what was not said. The detective who did most of the speaking left open the door to any number of possibilities of which is still being hotly debated even today. He also seemed to spend a lot of time puzzling over Suzie's photos. The latter probably deserves closer scrutiny.

    I would add one other thing. I have personally spoken to four reporters who worked on this case. And the one most closely linked to this program left me with the impression that not much had moved on this case in at least a decade after it occurred. Probably the most important thing I learned was that the dig in the Cassville area held the most promise for the prosecutor but whatever came of it was sealed and nothing more has been said of it. And the GJ3 deal fizzled although we learned of Robert Cox which has consumed a lot of debate. Personally, if I were trying to concentrate my efforts on this case it would be with the GJ3 and Cox. I strongly suspect that all or most of these individuals know what happened and where the remains were deposited.

    But all in all you have a good handle on the essence of the case.

    I believe but do not know that the police know who the perpetrator was but do not have sufficient evidence to produce an indictment by the prosecutor's office. The perpetrator is not necessarily the person or persons who carried out the actual murders.

    The bottom line is that it will probably take a confession or a new witness to surface and spill the beans.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  43. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Missouri Mule For This Useful Post:


  44. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    793
    I had forgotten about the Greene County jail inmate's letter which was addressed to the McCall's but mailed to 1717.

    There was also the letter from "Tin Foil Hat Man" mailed to SPD sealed in tin foil supposedly so that the Illuminati, CIA, or FBI (take your pick) wouldn't be able to read it thru the envelope.

    48 HRS following LE on the tip to search the rent controlled apartments; interviewing the resident mom's and children in the back yard all indicate that this was a human interest slant on the story with plenty of filler.

    Why else would that stuff be used in the story when there were weeks worth of time to investigate and report on the case and leave the filler on the cutting room floor?
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  45. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Hurricane For This Useful Post:


  46. #25
    Auramyst's Avatar
    Auramyst is offline One should look for what is, not for what one thinks should be ~Albert Einstein
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    130

    48 Hours

    Quote Originally Posted by fullmoon View Post
    I just learned about this case on Disappeared shown on the OWN network. I can't believe I haven't heard of this before. I contacted 48 Hours in hopes of getting a copy of their program on the case, but it is no longer available. It was on Youtube, but not anymore. If anyone has an extra copy, I would be grateful if I could buy it from you. My e-mail is mickfan2000@yahoo.com. Thanks!
    The 48 Hours episode is titled "Have you seen them?". It originally aired on September 2, 1992. I can't find it online anywhere (youtube, google, etc) or for sale anywhere (ebay, etc). Mind you, if it was offered for sale right after it first aired, then it was probably VHS- as DVD wasn't prevalent at that time. Maybe someone will show up on this forum who has a copy- or a copy of a copy.

    I do like watching the documentary's about 3MW, but I do realize they edit and revise according to audience appeal- so facts may be slanted or skewed or not mentioned. I, unfortunately, have never seen the 48 Hours episode- but I have seen Vanished and Disappeared.

    What I find enlightening, is watching and reading the very earliest news reports about this case from 1992. There are several of these videos on youtube and articles on google. They show the outside and inside of the house and go over information from the very earliest days of the investigation. It also helps me to view the case from the perspective of 1992, rather than from our more technically advanced era (cell phones, internet, etc).
    All posts are my opinion

  47. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Auramyst For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 27 1234567891011 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #5
    By SheWhoMustNotBeNamed in forum The Springfield Three
    Replies: 751
    Last Post: 06-15-2012, 01:58 AM
  2. The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #4
    By christine2448 in forum The Springfield Three
    Replies: 1035
    Last Post: 04-19-2011, 09:02 PM
  3. The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #1
    By englishleigh in forum The Springfield Three
    Replies: 630
    Last Post: 02-05-2008, 10:56 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •