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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigh Sister View Post
    The problem for me is that innocent people are sometimes convicted and sentenced to death. I would be I interested to hear your thoughts on this very real problem with the death penalty.
    I can't find accurate statistics anywhere for Canada. I'll keep researching though.

    Yes, there are/were wrongfully convicted people in prison but if we trust DNA and our justice system then if I were ever a juror in a trial with overwhelming evidence, I would definitely sentence the person to death.

    In this case, there is an alleged video showing the accused killer taking an innocent human being and brutally murdering him and dismembering him, sending body parts across Canada and then fleeing the country.

    If that is not enough to sentence him to death, I don't know what is.

    I can say the same with Tori Stafford's murderers. One confessed, the other wanted a trial and was convicted. Sitting in prison is a joke for these monsters. They had no right to take a little girl's life. None whatsoever.

    I brought up the Amber Kirwan case. The POS who murdered was convicted of murdering another man and let out on probation. Guess what? He wasn't rehabilitated. He murdered again. This time a beautiful young woman who had every right to be walking home from an outing with friends.

    Get these creeps off our streets once and for all! 6 feet under would be perfect.

    I won't even get into the ridiculous privacy laws in our country. I don't know if Mr. XYZ next door to me is a pedophile or not but yet his rights are protected but not mine or my childrens.

    What is wrong with this picture?


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  3. #17
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    Lightbulb

    I am happy our wonderful Mods created a space to discuss this topic.

    For me, I cannot agree with the death penalty because as a Buddhist, we are against killing "any sentient beings". I'm so upset for Lin Jun's family as they also are Buddhists as was Lin Jun himself.

    That said, even if I wasn't Buddhist, I still could not agree with taking a life. I recall vividly the case of Toronto's Guy-Paul Morin. He was innocent and was imprisoned for life. Thankfully, his case was overturned and he is now free. LE latched onto him because he was "different"; he's a musician, a loner, he was in the high school glee club and musical clubs, etc. He was an easy choice. (Not unlike DLS in the Audrey Gleave case).

    Once the horrific crime has been committed, what good does it do to take yet another life? Oh I know.....we have to feed them in prison, give them nice warm jammies in the winter, give them some 'rights', etc. but another death is not the answer. For me, that is.

    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
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    “The inspiration you seek is already inside you. Be silent and listen." ~ Rumi


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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHB View Post
    Canada doesn't even have LWOP, does it?
    Well, we do have the label of "dangerous offender" and these people NEVER get out of prison. I'm certain LRM will receive this label for his crime(s).
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
    -------------------------------------------
    “The inspiration you seek is already inside you. Be silent and listen." ~ Rumi


  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHB View Post
    Thanks for the info, otto.
    After some googling, I see Paul Bernardo got LWOP. I can't believe his wife only got 12 years, though. Michael Rafferty and Colonel Russel Williams, for example, are two murderers who would be on death row, or severing LWOP in the US (I don't follow Canadian crime much, those are the only two I know of). Both of them will be eligeble for parole after 25 years.
    Yves "Apache" Trudeau would certaintly been a DP case in the US. He committed 43 murders for various Canadian biker gangs, turned state's evidence and was allowed to plead to 43 manslaughters, and served 9 years. When he was released, he was given a new identity, and a few years later he raped a little boy, for which he was given 4 more years. He has since been released.
    I think a lot of Americans feel that Canada is "soft on crime". Whether or not that's a fair assessment, I don't know, what I listed above are only a few cases. Personaly, I would feel better knowing any of the above murderers would never be free again, be it DP or LWOP.

    BTW sorry I derailed this thread, it's about the death penalty, not LWOP. I'll thow my $0.02 in: as long as we're executing the right person, I have no problem with the DP.
    Plea deals are made in Canada, just like in the US. A plea deal was made with Karla Homolka in order to prosecute Paul Bernardo. At the time, without Karla's testimony, there was not enough evidence against Bernardo.

    Rafferty will be eligible for parole after 25 years and there's a good chance he'll get it. He murdered one person. Although it's a high profile case, it's still nothing different from other first degree murder cases. At the same time that the Rafferty trial was going on, there was another case in Ontario where another young girl was murdered by a young man. That case received no coverage, most likely because the victim was a new immigrant and a couple of years older than 9. Unless Rafferty commits more crimes in prison, he'll probably be released in 25 years. This case cannot be grouped with people like Russell Williams.

    Russell Williams will probably not be released, at least not as long as anyone remembers his crimes and victims. He is a very dangerous, cunning man that will most likely victimize people again if he is released.

    If making a plea deal in Canada or the US means that Canada or the US is soft on crime, then both countries are soft on crime. A significant difference between US and Canadian (and European) legal philosophy is that Canada and Europe believe that criminals can be rehabilitated and gives people a chance at rehabilitation. It seems that in the US people have thrown their hands in the air and decided that there's nothing to be done, so criminals should either be executed or caged for the remainder of their lives. I think I like the philosophy of hoping for change better than throwing ones hands in the air and claiming that there's nothing to be done.


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  8. #20
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    Here we go....an inside look at our prison system. Karla Homolka in 2000. Posing for the camera at Joliette Prison. Flowers and childrens toys. She looks so miserable, doesn't she?

    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/21...-new-book-says


    And people wonder why I'm for the death penalty........


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  10. #21
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    @otto;

    While I agree with the philosophy of rehabilitation, I am not sold on the reality.

    That said, I am not a proponent of the death penalty. I do not have a better answer for spending tax dollars on housing violent offenders on life sentences, but I still can't say I am on board with executing human beings, no matter how dangerous or evil.

    I may change my heart on this one day. I have changed my stand on many topics as I have gotten older and seen more. But I don't think I will on this.

    I think the legal system in the US, however is good. And, sure, it can be better. But I'd rather be tried here than in almost any other country, Canada excepted.

    (I also dig Canada's healthcare ).


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  12. #22
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    I have vacillated over the years on the DP. I was a teen when Steven Truscott was convicted and sentenced, and glad i was still alive to see him and others freed as innocent human beings.

    Although I can feel hatred for the likes of LRM, i can never hate enough to wish they be killed by our government. I felt hatred for people who were responsible for my son's death, but i could never have wished them dead. Ironically, the person found most responsible for his death died a few years later. I did not feel anything ... no elation, no sadness, no triumph ... the end of that person's life did nothing to make me feel better about my son being gone. In fact, my thoughts were ... there is now another parent mourning the loss of their child.

    My mom and I used to argue about the DP (she was ALWAYS against it). Through the years, i'm much more inclined to view it her way ... i would like to see them all banished to a remote location with no contact with our society. They would soon learn that unless they formed some type of government, made some rules, lived within them, they could not function in chaos. They end up realizing that people have to live and work together to have a properly functioning SOCIETY !! Think Devil's Island (mind you, I suggest something more along the lines of Northwest Territories ... much colder than Australia )
    Anyway, that's all just wishful thinking.

    In some way, Casey Anthony posted one thing that I agree with (paraphrased somewhat here):

    "Why do people kill people to teach people who kill people that killing people is wrong?"

    Animals kill the sick and weak. I like to think we are somewhat above that.

    JMO
    Last edited by sillybilly; 06-21-2012 at 10:24 PM. Reason: forgot the big JMO (of all topics !!)


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  14. #23
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    Does Canada have the Whole Life Tariff? Britain does and it's the same thing as life without parole.
    This is my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

    Stan Reid


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  16. #24
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    Here's a canadian copkiller who's getting daytime furloughs:

    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/21...corted-release


  17. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHB View Post
    Canada doesn't even have LWOP, does it?
    "Parole is an option available to all offenders since Canada does not have a life sentence without parole option. The offender will have to spend a prescribed amount of time in custody, depending on the offence. For the vast majority of offences, that period is one third of the total sentence imposed.[3] Parole is not automatic. The parole board in deciding whether to grant parole must consider, first and foremost, the protection of the public; secondary considerations are reinegration, rehabiliation and compassion.[4] Eligibility for parole is between 10 and 25 years for murder and 7 years for other life sentences or indeterminate sentences."
    Parole Board of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    From Wickepedia however if LM can be declared a dangerous offender then his sentence will be indefinite like PB's is.
    http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/prg/cor/tls/dod-eng.aspx
    Last edited by KateB; 05-19-2015 at 01:16 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

    Copyright that Cindy

    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Suess


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  19. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by STANDREID View Post
    Does Canada have the Whole Life Tariff? Britain does and it's the same thing as life without parole.
    If we do it goes under a different name. Our criminal justice system is modeled after yours so we may. We have something called Dangerous Offender Status and if someone is sentenced as that, they have an indefinite sentence.
    http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/prg/cor/tls/dod-eng.aspx

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

    Copyright that Cindy

    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Suess


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  21. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHB View Post
    Thanks for the info, otto.
    After some googling, I see Paul Bernardo got LWOP. I can't believe his wife only got 12 years, though. Michael Rafferty and Colonel Russel Williams, for example, are two murderers who would be on death row, or severing LWOP in the US (I don't follow Canadian crime much, those are the only two I know of). Both of them will be eligeble for parole after 25 years.
    Yves "Apache" Trudeau would certaintly been a DP case in the US. He committed 43 murders for various Canadian biker gangs, turned state's evidence and was allowed to plead to 43 manslaughters, and served 9 years. When he was released, he was given a new identity, and a few years later he raped a little boy, for which he was given 4 more years. He has since been released.
    I think a lot of Americans feel that Canada is "soft on crime". Whether or not that's a fair assessment, I don't know, what I listed above are only a few cases. Personaly, I would feel better knowing any of the above murderers would never be free again, be it DP or LWOP.

    BTW sorry I derailed this thread, it's about the death penalty, not LWOP. I'll thow my $0.02 in: as long as we're executing the right person, I have no problem with the DP.
    A lot of Canadians agree that we're soft on crime.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

    Copyright that Cindy

    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Suess


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  23. #28
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    I know Canada will not normally extradite a person who is eligible for the death penalty but they did in the case of Charles Ng.
    This is my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

    Stan Reid


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  25. #29
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    2012-06-23

    Tory Sen. Patrick Brazeau has insinuated he would support reinstating the death penalty should Magnotta be found guilty of the charges against him. Do you side with Brazeau?

    Yes 85%


    No 15%

    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/poll/index.html


    Sounds good to me.


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  27. #30
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    Luka Magnotta long ago left Planet Normal and he embarked on a path of attention seeking that became less normal, while allegedly becoming more sordid and evil. If he at some point decided he wanted to go down in history as one of Canada’s most hideous monsters, Magnotta, if found guilty, at a very young age will have fulfilled his expectation.

    World-leading forensic psychologist Dr. Michael Stone recently joined our TV program to discuss where Magnotta ranks on this scale of depravity.

    If found guilty of his crimes, he ranks right at the top — or bottom, depending on how you look at it — of Dr. Stone’s scale of depravity.

    But I don’t want to dwell too long on Magnotta because that’s what he would want. I want to discuss what this says about us as a country.

    I know Pierre Trudeau scored lots of political points decades ago when he said he wanted Canada to become a Just Society.

    While some at the time simply dismissed it as a slogan, nobody is doing that today. Canada has become a just-perfect society for the Luka Magnottas of this world.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/21...s-a-cruel-joke


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