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  1. #31
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    But we must not stop there; Canada should look into reinstating the death penalty for planned and deliberate murders where there is clear, unambiguous evidence of guilt.

    Some may argue death is too light a sentence for these criminals and a lifetime in prison is actually harsher.

    But consider the cost of keeping such criminals alive.

    Death may indeed be seen as an easy escape, but paying for their room and board for life is just as criminal.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/21...-death-penalty

  2. #32
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    Older article....


    OTTAWA - Two-thirds of Canadians support the death penalty, according to a recent poll, although less than half of the country wants the government to bring it back into Canadian law.

    Capital punishment jumped back into the news last week when Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in an interview he supported the death penalty.

    "I, personally, think there are times where capital punishment is appropriate," Harper told CBC, but insisted he had no plans to bring the measure back.

    Parliament banned capital punishment in 1976.

    Opposition parties slammed Harper's comments.

    "If Mr. Harper is genuinely in favour of capital punishment, then he should say so and bring a bill to floor of the House of Commons," Liberal MP David McGuinty said.

    It turns out such a bill would garner more support than Harper's Conservatives currently do in the polls.
    http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada.../17031541.html

  3. #33
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    There are not many crimes that I feel merit capital punishment, I just don't feel an "eye for an eye" is the way that civilized society stays civilized. One of the few crimes I do feel merits capital punishment is the serial rape and molestation of young children; if you rob a child of their innocence and sense of safety security... Someone like Sandusky would meet my criteria for capital punishment.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by STANDREID View Post
    I know Canada will not normally extradite a person who is eligible for the death penalty but they did in the case of Charles Ng.
    Yes indeed they did, and Charles Ng has been in California for 21 years, since extradition in 1991, and he was sentenced to death in 1999 iirc.

    I am not for the death penalty, and Canada being soft on crime is debatable IMO, and is often cited around the world in such discussions related to Charles Ng and in that regard is an unfair criticism imo. I suggest a great book called Contempt of Court - The Betrayal of Justice in Canada that explains the "may be refused" codicil related to the death penalty being added to the Canada-US Extradition Treaty in 1976 by the US.

    Exploring the topic of the death penalty and Canada, in relation to Luka, it makes me wonder at the cost differences in what has been spent on Charles NG per year since being sentenced to death, versus what would have been spent per year if he was incarcerated in Canada.

    Ng was released early from Leavenworth in 1982. Between 82 and 85 it's estimated there were 11-25 torture murders by Ng and Leonard lake. Ng then fled to Canada and was arrested for his Cdn crimes in 1985, then had a 6 year extradition battle until he was sent to California in 1991. Then more legal battles until his trial in 1998 and then he was sentenced to death in 1999.

    Ng still sits on death row. I had read the US costs were at about 10 million by the time of the trial, with 6.6 million for the extradition efforts alone ( http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/ng2.htm ), and that the trial cost 20 million ( Charles Ng - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ). No idea if those are accurate, or what the Canadian costs were. The costs since his death sentence in 1999 interest me if anyone has them.

    Luka will obviously not be given a death penalty in Canada, but I believe he like Bernardo and others, will never step outside of prison JMO. Hard for me to say which would be "better", with all the factors involved, and what one feels would be "justice" as far as the consequences Luka will face. I know gut feelings of an eye for an eye come forth, and costs alone can't or shouldn't be a factor when considering the death penalty debate imo, but there can't be justice for innocent murdered Jun Lin and his poor family. Nothing could possibly done that would be justice for what happened. Of course all is JMO.

    Sorry for the lengthy post, it's an important topic imo and I couldn't do my usual brief reply.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-19-2015 at 01:16 AM. Reason: repair url tag.
    "I learned that it is the weak who are cruel, and that gentleness is to be expected only from the strong."~Leo Rosten

    “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” ~Mother Teresa of Calcutta


    "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." ~ Marcus Aurelius

  5. #35
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    Some other countries don't have the death penalty either but I've heard that certain heinous criminals are sometimes shot while "trying to escape" or "killed by fellow inmates".
    This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.


    Stan Reid

  6. #36
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    Hello all, new member.

    It was actually this thread that caught my attention while browsing forums on my iPhone the other day. I am Canadian and this entire case has been the subject of a lot of debate amongst the people I know, and it has brought back up the Death Penalty discussion again.

    Personally, I don't agree with the Death Penalty. My view has absolutely nothing to do with the perpetrator's of the horrible crimes not deserving death, they most likely do deserve it. But my belief is that we, as a society, need to be above the actions (and morals) of the worse members of society. So I'm personally relieved that we don't have the death penalty option here.

    What I do wish we would have is consecutive sentencing options, full life sentences that are real life sentences. (Yes I know Bernardo will never get out, but many others who didn't get his press probably will.). As a Canadian, I feel there is a lot about our criminal justice system that needs work and could be improved upon, but I don't think that reinstating the death penalty is the way to go. I just don't think it really makes any sense. From what I understand from my friends in America, and what I can read up on, it's more costly to keep someone on death row, and cost more to put someone to death than to simply imprison them for the rest of their lives. (I may be wrong on that, it's just my understanding) It does nothing to discourage others from murdering. It just doesn't really do what all the proponents of it claims it does.

    It is simple retribution, nothing more. Again, to herald back to my original point, it's not about what it says about the condemned, it's about what it says about us.

  7. #37
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    I am another Canadian who feels that our criminal justice system is a joke. Punishments are not nearly harsh enough and conditions (for some) not harsh enough.

    Russel Williams, Pickton, Bernardo and similar devils should be given the death penalty IMO. There is nothing to be gained by their continued life, and no hope of rehabilitating them. And no doubt of their guilt. They are drain on tax dollars and taking up space that at another person could use. I don't feel its "an eye for an eye".

    Regarding Rafferty, Thomas Hurst, etc I think they should spend their lives in prison. I don't think the possibility of parole should exist for them. Although I am unsure about whether I think someone who has at least admitted his crime and acnowleged that it was wrong, should perhaps have a chance of parole (like Hurst). But the likes of Rafferty should spend their lives in a cage. After 25 years he will be plenty young enough to start a new life, and rape another child.

    Hurst's case is near to my heart. I hope every day of his life in jail is a living nightmare.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by airplanelamp View Post
    I am another Canadian who feels that our criminal justice system is a joke. Punishments are not nearly harsh enough and conditions (for some) not harsh enough.
    I don't know that I'd go so far as to call it a joke, but there are definitely many areas in which it can be improved upon. Sentencing guidelines definitely being one of them. This is one recent example where the sentence just does not fit the crime.

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...#ixzz269sAbRuq

    Russel Williams, Pickton, Bernardo and similar devils should be given the death penalty IMO. There is nothing to be gained by their continued life, and no hope of rehabilitating them. And no doubt of their guilt. They are drain on tax dollars and taking up space that at another person could use. I don't feel its "an eye for an eye".
    Respectfully, there are a lot of people that are drain on tax dollars, doesn't mean we should put them to death though. Don't misunderstand me, I completely get the sentiment. All of the above that you've mentioned I felt the urge to see harm come to them, anyone would, but, in my humble opinion, I think how we feel needs to be tempered before we act, particularly when that action reflects upon the whole of society.

    Again that's my own take on it and I do understand and respect your point of view, I just don't quite agree with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedKnot View Post
    @otto;

    While I agree with the philosophy of rehabilitation, I am not sold on the reality.
    Like with all things, we need to "get them while they're young". That's where we stand the best chance of rehabilitating someone. It's really all about the intervention.


    I think the legal system in the US, however is good. And, sure, it can be better. But I'd rather be tried here than in almost any other country, Canada excepted.
    I think the principles found in the legal system within both nations do not differ all that greatly, if at all. I would have every expectation of a 'fair trial' in Canada, the US, Great Britain.

    (I also dig Canada's healthcare ).
    It's not all it's cracked up to be, lol.

  9. #39
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    IMHO the death penalty is no punishment really. so u kill the criminal? he suffers a few seconds, then hes dead. he gets off way to easy w/ the death penalty. now LWOP.....solitary confinement....thats REAL punishment if u ask me. mix in a daily dose of some sort of torture & that would be even better IMO!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by airplanelamp View Post
    I am another Canadian who feels that our criminal justice system is a joke. Punishments are not nearly harsh enough and conditions (for some) not harsh enough.

    Russel Williams, Pickton, Bernardo and similar devils should be given the death penalty IMO. There is nothing to be gained by their continued life, and no hope of rehabilitating them. And no doubt of their guilt. They are drain on tax dollars and taking up space that at another person could use. I don't feel its "an eye for an eye".

    Regarding Rafferty, Thomas Hurst, etc I think they should spend their lives in prison. I don't think the possibility of parole should exist for them. Although I am unsure about whether I think someone who has at least admitted his crime and acnowleged that it was wrong, should perhaps have a chance of parole (like Hurst). But the likes of Rafferty should spend their lives in a cage. After 25 years he will be plenty young enough to start a new life, and rape another child.

    Hurst's case is near to my heart. I hope every day of his life in jail is a living nightmare.
    JMO it's not a joke, and personally, I would put Rafferty in the same category as Bernardo, Pickton and Williams. JMO
    "I learned that it is the weak who are cruel, and that gentleness is to be expected only from the strong."~Leo Rosten

    “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” ~Mother Teresa of Calcutta


    "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." ~ Marcus Aurelius


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDOGG View Post
    IMHO the death penalty is no punishment really. so u kill the criminal? he suffers a few seconds, then hes dead. he gets off way to easy w/ the death penalty. now LWOP.....solitary confinement....thats REAL punishment if u ask me. mix in a daily dose of some sort of torture & that would be even better IMO!
    ITA re death penalty and the concept of penalty.
    "I learned that it is the weak who are cruel, and that gentleness is to be expected only from the strong."~Leo Rosten

    “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” ~Mother Teresa of Calcutta


    "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." ~ Marcus Aurelius

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by airplanelamp View Post
    They are drain on tax dollars...

    it actually costs more to put someone to death (lawyers, appeals, etc) than to incarcerate for life...

    here are some US stats: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    it actually costs more to put someone to death (lawyers, appeals, etc) than to incarcerate for life...

    here are some US stats: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
    I don't think that is accounting for the costs of building the facilities though. Canadian prisons are VASTLY over crowded. At least where I am. People are sleeping on floors. Regardless of cost, I am still in favor of putting to death those who have grossly disregarded human life, over and over again. They space they occupy and the resources they drain could be better used for someone else. Perhaps if our prisons weren't so over crowded there would be more hope of rehabilitating those who have some potential.

    I have seen the evil of these men face to face. Knowing they are alive and breathing makes me want to vomit. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by airplanelamp View Post
    I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

    i don't believe i stated how i felt about the DP. i merely provided stats to refute an incorrect assertion.
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  15. #45
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    Any kind of serious punishment does act as a detriment to crime - for the average person (imo). The idea of consequences for most adults is very real.

    For the person who's going to commit the crime anyway - I can't see how a death penalty would be a detriment. Hasn't worked so far, ever, in all of history. Neither has life imprisonment.

    I separate the "detriment" from the issue and come up with the reality that when we, as a society, seek to kill another person, we contradict our own laws.

    I'm very glad that Canada doesn't have the death penalty. But agree with many posters that appropriate punishment for murder (violent murder in particular) and many other crimes here is too lax.

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