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  1. #166
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    This absolutely broke my heart and made me cry. What is wrong in this world??

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  3. #167
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    I was surprised to see one of the "bullies" on the video - I was expecting a kid who was too cool for school, tough macho type. What I saw was a kid who probably gets bullied a lot - he looks like a little nerd.

    Interesting. And interesting, as always, to me the things that get the public riled up. There are people who have been tortured to death and the country is on its ear about verbal taunting of an adult by middle schoolers on a school bus.

    Sad for her, I would be more comfortable had she had reported inappropriate behavior of these kids herself - that's her job.

    I really don't get it, the cases that catch this nation's attention. I'm the first to admit I don't get it - everyone else seems to - but I can look through any local news station on the web from any community and find much worse crimes being committed that no one gives a single thought to.


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  5. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    I was surprised to see one of the "bullies" on the video - I was expecting a kid who was too cool for school, tough macho type. What I saw was a kid who probably gets bullied a lot - he looks like a little nerd.

    Interesting. And interesting, as always, to me the things that get the public riled up. There are people who have been tortured to death and the country is on its ear about verbal taunting of an adult by middle schoolers on a school bus.

    Sad for her, I would be more comfortable had she had reported inappropriate behavior of these kids herself - that's her job.

    I really don't get it, the cases that catch this nation's attention. I'm the first to admit I don't get it - everyone else seems to - but I can look through any local news station on the web from any community and find much worse crimes being committed that no one gives a single thought to.
    With respect, that's a pretty absolutist statement. I think the public gives a lot of thought to all sorts of crimes that are reported in the media.

    You know, I read a comment by someone on the Sandusky case who said, "Yeah Sandusky did wrong, but what about "so and so" who do much worse?"

    I find your statement similar and respectfully, it's not very logical to me. Collective outrage about one act of savagery does not preclude collective outrage in other cases. Speaking of, plenty of people have been scandalized and disgusted by the Sandusky case, casey anthony, josh powell, Syria, the Holocaust, lynchings, Hurricane Katrina, etc., etc.

    I think that certain things are barometers for society's norms and values. In this case, it wasn't simply "an adult" as you state. It was a grandma. An elderly person. Among the most vulnerable. And she was being tormented by young people.

    That episode on the bus was seen by many as the last straw in societal decay, the culmination of decades in which we have seen the disappearance of integrity, accountability, valor, and just good old fashioned manners. The response you are seeing is society stating that we are fed up and not going to allow society to tip so far into the pits that it cannot be retrieved.

    Just because people are supporting this lone, elderly lady does not mean the rest and even more horrible of horrors in our world go unnoticed or unlamented. And millions of people contribute in many, different ways every single day to eradicating horror, wherever it occurs, regardless of degree.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being.


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  6. #169
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    I , for one, am glad this got people riled up. This type of verbal taunting has become an epidemic and is now leading to suicides. And there's just no rhyme or reason for it. If these kids need to be brought front and center to show others this behavior won't be tolerated, so be it.


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  8. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdaze View Post
    I , for one, am glad this got people riled up. This type of verbal taunting has become an epidemic and is now leading to suicides. And there's just no rhyme or reason for it. If these kids need to be brought front and center to show others this behavior won't be tolerated, so be it.
    Thankfully, Karen Klein is still alive. And yet it triggered plenty of outrage. Reminds me of Jennifer Petkov, but an adult picking on a sick child. I wonder about Karen Klein's bullies, Jennifer Petkov's, South Hadley 6, and Lori Drew's upbringing. Permissive parenting or marred by abuse?




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  10. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    With respect, that's a pretty absolutist statement. I think the public gives a lot of thought to all sorts of crimes that are reported in the media.

    You know, I read a comment by someone on the Sandusky case who said, "Yeah Sandusky did wrong, but what about "so and so" who do much worse?"

    I find your statement similar and respectfully, it's not very logical to me. Collective outrage about one act of savagery does not preclude collective outrage in other cases. Speaking of, plenty of people have been scandalized and disgusted by the Sandusky case, casey anthony, josh powell, Syria, the Holocaust, lynchings, Hurricane Katrina, etc., etc.

    I think that certain things are barometers for society's norms and values. In this case, it wasn't simply "an adult" as you state. It was a grandma. An elderly person. Among the most vulnerable. And she was being tormented by young people.

    That episode on the bus was seen by many as the last straw in societal decay, the culmination of decades in which we have seen the disappearance of integrity, accountability, valor, and just good old fashioned manners. The response you are seeing is society stating that we are fed up and not going to allow society to tip so far into the pits that it cannot be retrieved.

    Just because people are supporting this lone, elderly lady does not mean the rest and even more horrible of horrors in our world go unnoticed or unlamented. And millions of people contribute in many, different ways every single day to eradicating horror, wherever it occurs, regardless of degree.
    BBM.I like to add the ever increasing social apathy to that in our current society.
    After all there were other kids on the bus plus a bus driver.
    It is scary. The grandmother did apparently not complain to the school either, and/or reported the culprits. That is also very disturbing.
    Guess she knows from prior experience, it would not do any good and could result in losing her job for making waves. When those punks did that to an elderly lady , I shudder to think what atrocities they do to their peers.


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  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotterdam View Post
    BBM.I like to add the ever increasing apathy to that in our current society.
    After all there were other kids on the bus plus a bus driver.
    It is scary. The grandmother did apparently not complain to the school either, and/or reported the culprits. That is also very disturbing.
    Guess she knows from prior experience, it would not do any good and could result in losing her job for making waves. When those punks did that to an elderly lady , I shudder to think what atrocities they do to their peers.
    Don't want to think about it. Even worse, what they will be like when they are older. Speaking of that, Dr. Peter Langman wrote a book called Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. In the book, he talks about how many of these school shooters have a history of bullying and are the bullies.

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Why-Kids-Kill-Inside-Shooters/dp/0230608027"]Amazon.com: Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters (9780230608023): Peter Langman: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416tQmKfB5L.@@AMEPARAM@@416tQmKfB5L[/ame]
    Last edited by HMSHood; 06-25-2012 at 11:20 PM.




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  14. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    With respect, that's a pretty absolutist statement. I think the public gives a lot of thought to all sorts of crimes that are reported in the media.

    You know, I read a comment by someone on the Sandusky case who said, "Yeah Sandusky did wrong, but what about "so and so" who do much worse?"

    I find your statement similar and respectfully, it's not very logical to me. Collective outrage about one act of savagery does not preclude collective outrage in other cases. Speaking of, plenty of people have been scandalized and disgusted by the Sandusky case, casey anthony, josh powell, Syria, the Holocaust, lynchings, Hurricane Katrina, etc., etc.

    I think that certain things are barometers for society's norms and values. In this case, it wasn't simply "an adult" as you state. It was a grandma. An elderly person. Among the most vulnerable. And she was being tormented by young people.

    That episode on the bus was seen by many as the last straw in societal decay, the culmination of decades in which we have seen the disappearance of integrity, accountability, valor, and just good old fashioned manners. The response you are seeing is society stating that we are fed up and not going to allow society to tip so far into the pits that it cannot be retrieved.

    Just because people are supporting this lone, elderly lady does not mean the rest and even more horrible of horrors in our world go unnoticed or unlamented. And millions of people contribute in many, different ways every single day to eradicating horror, wherever it occurs, regardless of degree.
    But she was employed as a bus monitor. She wasn't some old lady sitting on her front porch beseiged by teenagers. Her job was to keep unruly children in line, and that was why she was there, accepting a paycheck for keeping order on the bus. Her job, that she was being paid for, was to shut this kind of thing down and protect the other children on the bus who weren't behaving this way.

    I am not unsympathetic to her - it's sad and awful to watch - but I shudder to think of what could have happened to other children on the bus, on her watch.

    Really, my post was about surprise about what grabs the collective attention of our nation. Natalee Holloway, Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Lindsay Lohan, Caylee Anthony. And now this, the bus monitor who was harassed by rude middle schoolers on the bus where she was collecting a salary to keep order.

    All the while, I doubt 5% of the American public could intelligently discuss the landmark supreme court decision handed down yesterday upholding Arizona's right to check citizenship status of criminals.

    I'm just always surprised, that's all.
    Last edited by JeannaT; 06-26-2012 at 08:42 PM.


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  16. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotterdam View Post
    BBM.I like to add the ever increasing social apathy to that in our current society.
    After all there were other kids on the bus plus a bus driver.
    It is scary. The grandmother did apparently not complain to the school either, and/or reported the culprits. That is also very disturbing.
    Guess she knows from prior experience, it would not do any good and could result in losing her job for making waves. When those punks did that to an elderly lady , I shudder to think what atrocities they do to their peers.
    She didn't report this, that's true, and my guess is had she reported what happened she probably would have lost her job. I would have to think that was top on her mind - you can't keep a job as a disciplinary figure on a bus if you report that you were unable to control the children. Had she taken a stand, taken names and then marched into the principal's office after that shift that would be different - but she didn't take any measures at all during this long episode of miserable behavior by these kids. That's what's at the heart of this, IMHO, she was not in a position to be able to report this story - it would be tantamount to resigning from her job. I don't see it as losing her job "for making waves", but rather, making it clear to her employers that she doesn't have the skills she's hired to have. It's not like a classroom teacher who's hired to teach. She's hired to keep those kids in line, that's her sole job.
    Last edited by JeannaT; 06-26-2012 at 08:46 PM.


  17. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    But she was employed as a bus monitor. She wasn't some old lady sitting on her front porch beseiged by teenagers. Her job was to keep unruly children in line, and that was why she was there, accepting a paycheck for keeping order on the bus. Her job, that she was being paid for, was to shut this kind of thing down and protect the other children on the bus who weren't behaving this way.

    I am not unsympathetic to her - it's sad and awful to watch - but I shudder to think of what could have happened to other children on the bus, on her watch.

    Really, my post was about surprise about what grabs the collective attention of our nation. Natalee Holloway, Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Lindsay Lohan, Caylee Anthony. And now this, the bus monitor who was harassed by rude middle schoolers on the bus where she was collecting a salary to keep order.

    All the while, I doubt 5% of the American public could intelligently discuss the landmark supreme court decision handed down yesterday upholding Arizona's right to check citizenship status of criminals.

    I'm just always surprised, that's all.
    You mean the landmark case that gutted 75% of the Arizona legislation? Perhaps that's true - 5% couldn't intelligently discuss that decision but almost every American is aware of it, IMO and millions have commented on it.

    You stated you could not understand why this lady's case is getting so much attention and why people are fascinated with this case as opposed to others. There seemed to be a bit of condescension in that post, IMO. I explained why such a case would grab the public's attention so strongly. I thought I did a pretty good job of it. Maybe not, because your response was to simply state she wasn't doing her job. Could be true but it is not a response to arguments as to why this incident was so important to the public.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."


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  19. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    You mean the landmark case that gutted 75% of the Arizona legislation? Perhaps that's true - 5% couldn't intelligently discuss that decision but almost every American is aware of it, IMO and millions have commented on it.

    You stated you could not understand why this lady's case is getting so much attention and why people are fascinated with this case as opposed to others. There seemed to be a bit of condescension in that post, IMO. I explained why such a case would grab the public's attention so strongly. I thought I did a pretty good job of it. Maybe not, because your response was to simply state she wasn't doing her job. Could be true but it is not a response to arguments as to why this incident was so important to the public.
    You've fallen victim to the media spin on the Supreme court decision. They upheld the meat of the Arizona law. But probably that's a discussion for another thread.

    There's no condescension in my post, or my thoughts. Just truly curiosity. I really don't get the stories that captivate the American public 24/7. I really don't. The stories that captivate the public's attention seem so very trivial compared to other profound stories. Just my opinion, of course.


  20. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    You've fallen victim to the media spin on the Supreme court decision. They upheld the meat of the Arizona law. But probably that's a discussion for another thread.

    There's no condescension in my post, or my thoughts. Just truly curiosity. I really don't get the stories that captivate the American public 24/7. I really don't. The stories that captivate the public's attention seem so very trivial compared to other profound stories. Just my opinion, of course.
    The only media I have seen that agrees with your position is Fox news. Regardless, as an attorney, I am well aware of what the Supreme Court decision means. I don't need the media to interpret for me. A year of constitutional law was very helpful in teaching me how to analyze a case and its ramifications.

    But you are right, that's a discussion for another thread.

    Again, I gave what I thought was a pretty good explanation as to why this story struck a nerve. You haven't responded to that or given a reason why you think it is the case.

    You have, however, stated that only 5% of the population could intelligently discuss the recent Supreme Court decision and you also stated: "There are people who have been tortured to death and the country is on its ear about verbal taunting of an adult by middle schoolers on a school bus." Right after that, you indicated that Ms. Klein should have reported the incident because it's her job.

    This (along with your statement that I have fallen victim to media spin), kind of gives me the impression that you feel the reason for the public's fascination with this story is stupidity, because after all, it was the woman's job to stop inappropriate behavior and she failed to do so, so why should she be rewarded or unduly pitied? I disagree with that sentiment.

    The word "trivial" in this context tends to support a feeling of condescension as well, IMO.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."


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  22. #178
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    I'm always a little surprised at conversations on the internet, Gitana. In real life, I never encounter this kind of angry reaction to my musings. I honestly believe that it's a function of tone of voice and facial expression. I'm musing about why this story has captured the American attention, and am surprised by how angry my thoughts have made you.

    I didn't intend to make anyone angry, and this doesn't happen to me in personal face to face conversations. If you knew me in person, you'd be surprised that my reputation is a thoughtful peacemaker.

    I'm just a bit surprised that this story - all in all - has captured the American public's attention and netted her half a million bucks. That's all.

    Peace.


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  24. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    I'm always a little surprised at conversations on the internet, Gitana. In real life, I never encounter this kind of angry reaction to my musings. I honestly believe that it's a function of tone of voice and facial expression. I'm musing about why this story has captured the American attention, and am surprised by how angry my thoughts have made you.

    I didn't intend to make anyone angry, and this doesn't happen to me in personal face to face conversations. If you knew me in person, you'd be surprised that my reputation is a thoughtful peacemaker.

    I'm just a bit surprised that this story - all in all - has captured the American public's attention and netted her half a million bucks. That's all.

    Peace.
    I've had to do rewrites after reading my stuff when I preview it. I've learned the hard way about not being clear, especially with my sense of humor. When I first came here a lot of people thought I was genuinely angry when responding to their posts. I had to tell them that if they see one of these in my post it's guaranteed to be a jest. I also had to point out that I very, very, very rarely get offended, and if I was I'd contact them through private email. I've only had to do that once and that wasn't because they attacked me, it's because they attacked one of the sweetest people here. The person had a very sick mind and was banned as soon as I flagged their posts because of their vitriol. They had a lot of hate inside them and took it out on another person. They are also the only posts I've flagged for being offensive.

    My advice would be that when you write something, preview it. Read it like you were the one being responded to and how you'd take it. Is what you mean coming across clearly? Is what you're saying being said in an inoffensive or possibly misinterpreted way?

    Like you said, face to face is a lot easier than writing things out. There are times I've just thrown away an entire post because I realized I couldn't adequately express my opinions. BTW, while learning to post more concisely and getting people to understand my sense of humor I was timed out a few times. Like I said, I learned the hard way.


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  26. #180
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    Steely, you have a sense of humour? I never noticed!
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