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Thread: AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

  1. #351
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    Just wanted to add-that was AZ Lawyers statement, I'm not a lawyer.
    There are many things that make SC look suspicious in my eyes. I did not think so at first but now I think he was directly involved or knows something.
    And that candle light vigil that was supposed to be for Isabel and turned into something completely different had me shaking my head. If my child were the one missing I would not have allowed that. Wrong place, wrong time for that. He is not the one needing help, Isabel is. Are they speaking out at all on the local news? Asking people not to forget about Isabel?
    The silence is deafening.
    That 911 call too...he did not sound like he was being innapropriate because he was in shock-he didn't have the flat affect, or sound disasociated from the situation. He was fully engaged with the 911 operator and could not have sounded less concerned. I think he tried to tell RC that Isabel left on her own because I heard RC say to him "She's my daughter she's not gonna leave!!".
    The tone of his call was more like 'oh now the *****'s gonna hit the fan'.
    This is all just my opinion.
    Oh then the no contact agreement..no phone calls, letters, all sorts of red flags there.
    Evil don't look like anything...

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  3. #352
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    Not sure how much rain they got near Golf Links & Craycroft/Swan (the wash that was searched > than once). The washes on northwest side were flowing! Hope that area of town got the same amount of rain. I pray the rain will come and unsurface any hidden secrets. I pray Isa is found and brought home to rest.

    Praying you will be at peace soon Isa!

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  5. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmydogs View Post
    Not sure how much rain they got near Golf Links & Craycroft/Swan (the wash that was searched > than once). The washes on northwest side were flowing! Hope that area of town got the same amount of rain. I pray the rain will come and unsurface any hidden secrets. I pray Isa is found and brought home to rest.

    Praying you will be at peace soon Isa!
    I have a daughter near Craycroft and Kolb. They got quite a bit of rain today. Here on the far NE we also got slammed.



    A 30 foot of mesquite in my backyard. Under it are a grapefruit and a lemon tree. Full sized. (or used to be!)

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  7. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedKnot View Post
    Again, then HOW is this voluntary? I agree that SC really had no choice, but I also believe he isn't being unfairly targeted.

    Sounds more like there is something very very wrong in that family for CPS to rip apart a family who has just suffered the loss of a child......MOO but I cannot fathom why CPS would do this to a family who is innocent of any wrongdoing just to be hateful.
    Why did CPS in Texas take the Davis's child after their other child drowned? The breaking point for the Davises was apparently after they had made the specified renovations to their home, etc, and were then told that they might get custody again in six months.

    What about the guy whose wife was taking their baby in for a 3 day checkup, was shot in the parking lot and the baby abducted? After the baby was found CPS removed custody of that child, as well.

    I think that, like every other agency, company or organised group, most of the time CPS does an adequate job, sometimes it does a stellar job and sometimes it doesn't work at all.

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  9. #355
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    I've recounted this here in a MUCH earlier thread. But from first-hand experience here in Tucson, CPS is <ahem> lacking. After abusing my then 78 year old father, stealing his truck and committing over a dozen crimes in the truck over a 10 hour period (most all felonies), my nephew was placed by CPS walking distance from my father's home. Despite vocal objections -- including from me, Victim's Assistance, his PO and SRO. He lasted less than a week at the placement before he tried to get retribution. Talking about setting people up to fail.

    Not that this is anything more than anecdotal.

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  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireSteel View Post
    Thats ok, you're entitled to your opinion too!

    I know things happen, all the time, that aren't supposed to happen in regards to CPS etc...and it sounds like you've been the victim of one of these times...I'm sorry you had to go through that, it would suck.

    This, however, is different IMO. I bet CPS weren't directly alerted by LE, in your case.

    This has come out of an investigation of a missing child, and the only inference we can take is that there is some sort of abuse issue which has been uncovered in the course of finding Isa.

    The entire difference here, IMO, is that LE REPORTED SC TO CPS. Lotsa caps in that sentence...but it wasn't an interfering neighbour, a disgruntled child...it was the Police who reported SC.

    Further...your baby didn't vanish. What I mean by this, is this case is going to get a LOT of public scrutiny and attention. The departments concerned will be having their most senior people liaise to handle this one, simply because of the media involved. It will be done RIGHT, and not mishandled by some novice, or someone who's simply not very good at their job.

    For these reasons, I think that personal experience with CPS, while horrible and unfair at the time, really can't be compared to what is going down here.

    I have had experience, it was to my grandsons benefit, so not an issue.

    You lost our first bet LOL CPS was alerted by LE. Most reports are made to CPS by police, even medical staff involve the police and report with them.

    I am not sure how the only inference can be abuse? Is that as in child abuse? Abuse of drugs or alcohol?

    As I said, LE reported directly to CPS the party involved here too.

    Not my child, my grandson - and you have no idea whether it can be compared to my case or not, you don't know my case and you certainly don't know the Celis case - it may well be EXACTLY the same, as a matter of fact IMO it is probably more like my case than child abuse (if that is what you were inferring)

    It was not horrible - nor unfair. They did their job, they did it well.
    ^^^^ everything up there is Moo

    I Still Call Australia Home

  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by pieper4 View Post
    I have a daughter near Craycroft and Kolb. They got quite a bit of rain today. Here on the far NE we also got slammed.



    A 30 foot of mesquite in my backyard. Under it are a grapefruit and a lemon tree. Full sized. (or used to be!)
    Oh no! That is heartbreaking. Is your tree completely lost?

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  14. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedKnot View Post
    Just to clarify; I, too, think that CPS was going to take those boys if SC did not agree to the arrangement.

    Calling it "voluntary" is like calling labor pains "discomfort"......It just ain't true.

    And while I do believe CPS gave SC an ultimatum, I do not believe it was done without a darn good reason. MOO
    @ discomfort

    I agree there is good reason behind this in the eyes of CPS, mainly because they don't do these things lightly. SC could have got a lawyer straight up in a high profile case like this, so there is something there that has the law on the side of CPS.

    A darn good reason that would stand up in court could have been drugs in his system (remembering this happened just after blood work would have been back). Now, given these kids still have a mother to look after them while the father is off is face (THIS IS ALL MADE UP NO FACTS AT ALL) is this a good enough reason? I know it is a lawful reason to separate him and given the stress the family was under the last thing needed is someone hanging around that is doing mind messing drugs etc

    I have no clue as to the reasons, I do know it doesn't have to be THAT bad iin the big picture. IMO if it was child abuse then it is not only a CPS matter but he could have been charged - they would have needed the proof.
    ^^^^ everything up there is Moo

    I Still Call Australia Home

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  16. #359
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    I can only speak for myself, but it is the "no contact" part of this arrangement that is troubling.

    I would still raise an eyebrow at an agreement which allowed supervised visits or telephone conversations. Especially in a family with a missing child. But I would be more likely to believe it was SOP.

    But "no contact", zero, nuthin', nada, zip? That is some serious business.

    If CPS or LE didn't have some pretty big concerns about SC, why can't he talk to his boys on the phone or meet them in a neutral setting under supervision?

    I know many of you say it's a very common type of agreement/order, but I just can't wrap my head around CPS ripping apart a grieving family when they don't actually suspect the removed party of any wrongdoing.

    MOO

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  18. #360
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    I'm going back through the thread now, and will be removing posts.

    It's a shame that some of the posts will be removed as some of you made really good points, but you quoted comments that were clearly violations.

    There isn't any reason to be rude or to snipe at one another. It also violates our Terms of Service.

    MODS have stated all along that all opinions and thoughts are welcome, as long as they are presented respectfully and as long as your responses show the same respect in return.

    Instead of contributing to any problems on the thread, please alert! Let a Moderator handle, when one is available to do so. Don't respond to/quote rude or other violation of TOS posts. You become part of the problem when you do.

    Thank you~
    Summer_Breeze

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  20. #361
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    @GutFeeling:

    You brought up another thing which I have wondered about more than once:

    Why hasn't some Baez-type attorney stepped forward to offer his or her services pro bono? I was under the quite possibly mistaken impression that these guys are usually knocking at the door within the week.....

    Of course, the offer might have been made and the Celises declined.

    Maybe Isa isn't high profile enough for a media hungry lawyer? I just don't know.....

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  22. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
    Why did CPS in Texas take the Davis's child after their other child drowned? The breaking point for the Davises was apparently after they had made the specified renovations to their home, etc, and were then told that they might get custody again in six months.

    What about the guy whose wife was taking their baby in for a 3 day checkup, was shot in the parking lot and the baby abducted? After the baby was found CPS removed custody of that child, as well.

    I think that, like every other agency, company or organised group, most of the time CPS does an adequate job, sometimes it does a stellar job and sometimes it doesn't work at all.
    Absolutely true. The fact is, CPS does not work the same way in every state, nor even in every county in a state and much of it depends on the reliability of their staff, or the supervisor in some cases.
    This situation is a little different since LE reported to CPS, but I wonder if they had actual proof that some abuse was going on, or was it just a strong suspicion? Unless it was proven I would think after the 90 days is up, he should be allowed to return to his family, unless he's charged with something relating to Isa's disappearance.
    The two cases you mentioned still baffle me. I can see removing the other child in the Davies home temporarily but cannot understand CPS telling them it would take six months or more to get the child back. That's ridiculous!! As for the other case, it's almost like they blamed the mother for being shot! How absurd is that?
    I've heard horror stories about CW's twisting facts in court and being able to convince a judge of things, just because they took a dim view of a parent for some reason. And then there are the cases where children just slipped through the cracks and the CW was falsifying reports when they had not even seen the child for years. It's a nightmare in some places.

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  24. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmydogs View Post
    Oh no! That is heartbreaking. Is your tree completely lost?
    The grapefruit tree (under the mesquite) is now a shrub, but will survive. The lemon tree fared better, and the mesquite is fine. It is a monster mesquite, and needed some trimming. Just not that branch. LOL. It will take weeks to get rid of all the slash from this limb. Most of the firewood has already been cut. What a mess.

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  26. #364
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    How many days has it been since SC voluntarily agreed to stay away from the children?



    Lindsey Baum, Elizabeth Olten, Shantina Smiley/Azriel Carver, Susan Powell, Rachel Anderson, Kyron Horman, Isabel Celis, Sierra Newbold, Lyric Cook & Elizabeth Collins, Christopher Marks, Reena Williams - NEVER FORGOTTEN

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  28. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedKnot View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but it is the "no contact" part of this arrangement that is troubling.

    I would still raise an eyebrow at an agreement which allowed supervised visits or telephone conversations. Especially in a family with a missing child. But I would be more likely to believe it was SOP.

    But "no contact", zero, nuthin', nada, zip? That is some serious business.

    If CPS or LE didn't have some pretty big concerns about SC, why can't he talk to his boys on the phone or meet them in a neutral setting under supervision?

    I know many of you say it's a very common type of agreement/order, but I just can't wrap my head around CPS ripping apart a grieving family when they don't actually suspect the removed party of any wrongdoing.

    MOO
    That part bothers me too, absolutely no contact. Why? Is he intimidating the boys somehow? RC does not seem to agree with their action..but would she really say so if she did? And the sister saying that stuff about SC at the vigil, did SC convince her to say that? Did she want to or was she pushed into it? What did RC think of it? Or maybe it was just bad timing because the CPS action was so close to the vigil? But still it should have been about ISABEL!!
    Sorry for all of the questions...
    Evil don't look like anything...

  29. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules71 View Post
    How many days has it been since SC voluntarily agreed to stay away from the children?
    Since May 12th, I believe. Shy of two months.

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  31. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedKnot View Post
    @GutFeeling:

    You brought up another thing which I have wondered about more than once:

    Why hasn't some Baez-type attorney stepped forward to offer his or her services pro bono? I was under the quite possibly mistaken impression that these guys are usually knocking at the door within the week.....

    Of course, the offer might have been made and the Celises declined.

    Maybe Isa isn't high profile enough for a media hungry lawyer? I just don't know.....
    Or maybe, they don't want to touch it with a barge pole, because they are almost certain to lose?

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  33. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by pieper4 View Post
    Since May 12th, I believe. Shy of two months.
    you're exactly correct. the police released the info on friday the 11th and it was reported by the news on the 12th.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/isabel-celi...ry?id=16334922

    that makes 57 days so far.

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  35. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireSteel View Post
    Or maybe, they don't want to touch it with a barge pole, because they are almost certain to lose?
    Most trials involving a murder charge end with the defendant being convicted, yet media-hungry lawyers still attach themselves to high profile trials.

  36. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedKnot View Post
    (chopped by me)
    Calling it voluntary is wrong. You can call a cow pie a sweet pea, but it's not going to smell any better.

    IMHO, it stinks to high heaven.
    You reminded me of the headline someone spotted (and posted) in a TX newspaper while the Hailey Dunn case was active... "Cow Patties for Sale at Abilene Mall."

    Sorry. It's not as funny now as it was then.

    As for rumors SC was seen with the boys... I do not know if it is true or not, but the reported sighting occurred on Fathers' Day. Is it possible that CPS agreed to let the family reunite for the day?
    My posts are strictly MY opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error, or who may be offended because I do not see eye to eye with them on all matters related to this case. I hope our differences can be set aside as we unite in the search for this child. Your opinions and insights are just as valuable as mine.

    Make a difference. Read my story in the CAPER - Citizens Against Pedophile's Early Release Forum

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  38. #371
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    It is sad that there is no new news. Still hoping She is safe someplace.

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  40. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    You reminded me of the headline someone spotted (and posted) in a TX newspaper while the Hailey Dunn case was active... "Cow Patties for Sale at Abilene Mall."

    Sorry. It's not as funny now as it was then.

    As for rumors SC was seen with the boys... I do not know if it is true or not, but the reported sighting occurred on Fathers' Day. Is it possible that CPS agreed to let the family reunite for the day?
    Honestly, I would think that if those rumors are true, that SC was granted a special dispensation for Father's Day.

    That really seems likely. However, why not just quash the rumors then by saying either

    A. No such thing occurred

    B. permission was granted for special visitation.

    And LOL on cow pattie sales!

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  42. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by tequilla shots View Post
    It is sad that there is no new news. Still hoping She is safe someplace.
    I am afraid I lost hope quite a while ago. At this point I am only hoping that Isa's body is found and the whole ugly truth exposed and those responsible are punished.

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  44. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by pieper4 View Post
    The grapefruit tree (under the mesquite) is now a shrub, but will survive. The lemon tree fared better, and the mesquite is fine. It is a monster mesquite, and needed some trimming. Just not that branch. LOL. It will take weeks to get rid of all the slash from this limb. Most of the firewood has already been cut. What a mess.

    Isabel you are in my thoughts and prayers...I hope the truth is revealed soon!!

    I am so very sorry about your trees....it is my dream to have a lemon tree!! Most importantly-I am happy YOU are safe!!

    Since March 2nd I have survived a tornado and a derecho!!! To be honest, I am SO scared of these storms, I am ready to MOVE -
    Destiny Renee Brewer-November 2,1999-June 28, 2010. Destiny -I love and miss you, tiny dancer!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtIje...feature=fvwrel

  45. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedKnot View Post
    I am afraid I lost hope quite a while ago. At this point I am only hoping that Isa's body is found and the whole ugly truth exposed and those responsible are punished.
    I would really love to disagree with you-but I just can't. It has been far too long.
    Destiny Renee Brewer-November 2,1999-June 28, 2010. Destiny -I love and miss you, tiny dancer!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtIje...feature=fvwrel

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