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Thread: NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#28

  1. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlywings View Post
    Thanks Curiousasacat.....I like facts...lol


    We know you do x
    So add this one my sweet.

  2. #1452
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresColumbo View Post
    Hey...didn't QPS request a sample of his beard hair? Somewhere around the time of his arrest. At the time this intrigued me.

    Then later, another court ordered request to remove the beard. Now this one is clear...they wanted to analyse the so called 'razor' scratches.

    So maybe they do have something from under those nails!!
    I think it was Friday 15th June, a beard hair sample was ordered to be taken from GBC...early last week his beard was ordered to be shaved.

    In the report last weekend, in the timeline, it mentioned April 21st - GBC attended a doctor to have injuries documented. I wondered at the time what that was all about as there seemed to be no further explanation about the doctor or injuries...so now we have it...


    April 21, 2012

    Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.

    Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed.

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1ywZnDA37
    Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light.
    ......George Washington


    Integrity is choosing your thoughts and actions based on values rather than personal gain.

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  4. #1453
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse detective View Post
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226409480965

    According to the affidavit filed by police and referred to in court on Friday, at 6.20am on April 20, 2012, Gerard Baden-Clay sent a text message to his wife Allison's mobile phone saying: "Good morning! Hope you slept well? Where are you? None of the girls are up yet! Love G''.

    No reply was received from this text message, the court documents say.

    The police affidavit says at 6.41am on April 20, Gerard Baden Clay sent another text message to his wife Allison's mobile phone saying: "Al, getting concerned. Where are you? The app doesn't say either? ... I'm dressed and about to make lunches. Please just text me back or call! Love G''.
    Possibly anticipating a Police investigation at some future stage? laying down a false trail?

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  6. #1454
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresColumbo View Post
    Hey...didn't QPS request a sample of his beard hair? Somewhere around the time of his arrest. At the time this intrigued me.

    Then later, another court ordered request to remove the beard. Now this one is clear...they wanted to analyse the so called 'razor' scratches.

    So maybe they do have something from under those nails!!
    Yes the did want a stubble sample, that's probably why, snagged on a nail split while she was scratching him? JMO

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  8. #1455
    Quote Originally Posted by DrWatson View Post
    Rational - I agree completely. And I have had numerous patients over the years seek second opinions, and on many occasions, I was the second opinion person! But I was talking about facts, rather than opinions. The post that was taken issue with was purely on facts, not opinions. I'm sure your melanoma surgeon would agree - there would be no arguing with the fact if you were found to have a melanoma, but where the opinion comes into it would be on the best way to treat it. And I have absolutely no problem with seeking multiple opinions on that.

    OK - enough of the self-defence. I'm a big boy, and have a thick enough skin that I can take plenty of criticism. But I do take pride in my knowledge in my own areas of expertise, especially in regard to facts.
    I'll admit when you first showed up on the blogs last night, I found your 'tone' somewhat derogatory, I've since read your follow up posts and decided it was my interpretation not your intention that caused me to think that


    MOO

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  10. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionsgalore View Post
    If it had been 1-2 text messages with many, many phone calls before dialling 000, it could have been a believable story.


    MOO
    DH goes AWOL all the time and I get worried. I might text him a couple of times, give him time to reply but then I start to panic so I start calling his mobile and get really panicked when he doesn't answer. I always worry about him falling asleep coming home from work. Usually he just has his music up high and doesn't hear the phone or he's pulled over for coffee or had to stay back to do a handover.

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  12. #1457
    Quote Originally Posted by BJsleuth View Post
    DH goes AWOL all the time and I get worried. I might text him a couple of times, give him time to reply but then I start to panic so I start calling his mobile and get really panicked when he doesn't answer. I always worry about him falling asleep coming home from work. Usually he just has his music up high and doesn't hear the phone or he's pulled over for coffee or had to stay back to do a handover.
    Mmmmm, I think majority of people would do very similar, I would, and I've noticed other bloggers have commented that they would also.


    MOO

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  14. #1458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionsgalore View Post
    If it had been 1-2 text messages with many, many phone calls before dialling 000, it could have been a believable story.


    MOO
    Spot on....if the first text message had given an indication that he was concerned/worried/frantic then it would be explainable. But by his own admission (wording of the text) he wasn't worried at 6.20am.

    I wonder what other calls/texts, if any, were made between 6.20am and 7.15am? Was anyone else contacted to enquire if they had seen Alison?

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  16. #1459
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    I think the posters who suggest that seeing into the property is unlikely as you drive past have forgotten that the entry to GBC's property is at the start of the easement that leads up to Boscombe Road. Therefore, all cars on Brookfield Road that want to enter Boscombe Rd NEED to at least slow down in front of his very house. The same if you are exiting Boscombe Rd onto Brookfield Rd - you need to actually stop to check for traffic - and you stop practically at GBC's gate. Any driver that happened to have been coming out, or going into, Boscombe Rd that night and necessarily stopped or slowed in front of GBC's house would have had time to notice a car parked in front of his stairs (it's likely GBC parked the car with the back to the stairs IMO for easier access and it's also likely he opened all the doors to block visibility from the road to what was going on IMO). There's not much movement after dark in Brookfield and this is precisely what a slowing driver would notice IMO, especially if it happened quite late at night.
    Now that IS a good point, and one which hadn't occurred to me. I was one who questioned the sighting, as I drive past there frequently, but I come straight along Brookfield Rd - and all you get is a very fleeting glimpse.


    But yes - you're quite right - anyone turning up into Boscombe Rd would have to slow or stop almost outside the BC gate before "gunning it" up that access road to Boscombe Rd.

    So presumably, the person who reported the sighting must have been heading for Boscombe Road.

    Good point.

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  18. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionsgalore View Post
    Lol, I live on the GC, and we swap stories of the less savoury charachters in our respective communities.
    That said, I've duly noted your dislike of such stories and shall do my best to not offend you again


    MOO
    Opinions, please don't take it personally. I guess I would say the same should someone bag Brisbane(It's my home town) but they don't.
    I just know some really,really nice people there and I get defensive for them.

  19. #1461
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlywings View Post
    I think it was Friday 15th June, a beard hair sample was ordered to be taken from GBC...early last week his beard was ordered to be shaved.

    In the report last weekend, in the timeline, it mentioned April 21st - GBC attended a doctor to have injuries documented. I wondered at the time what that was all about as there seemed to be no further explanation about the doctor or injuries...so now we have it...


    April 21, 2012

    Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.

    Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed.

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1ywZnDA37
    I didnt know he had given a DNA sample and that photos were taken of his scratches etc. So now I am wondering why he crashed the car the next day, I always thought it was to cover up any injuries.

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  21. #1462
    Quote Originally Posted by Curiousasacat View Post
    Opinions, please don't take it personally. I guess I would say the same should someone bag Brisbane(It's my home town) but they don't.
    I just know some really,really nice people there and I get defensive for them.
    We're good *hugs*


    MOO

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  23. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thebuttlerdidntdoit View Post
    Hello everyone,
    I might look brand new but I've been here from the beginning avidly lurking, reading every single post and urging the thread on in the rare quiet moments. Like everyone else here, I desperately want answers. It's just so hard to come to terms with something like this happening. I'd be a nutcase with WS, where I find comfort seeing how others think and feel like I do and I'm not alone in my sorrow .

    I registered today because of recent posts that refute the rumour that driving past GBC's house and having time to see anything going on in his front yard is unlikely. I strongly disagree. It's not only likely, it's almost unavoidable if you're entering or exiting Boscombe Rd.

    I think the posters who suggest that seeing into the property is unlikely as you drive past have forgotten that the entry to GBC's property is at the start of the easement that leads up to Boscombe Road. Therefore, all cars on Brookfield Road that want to enter Boscombe Rd NEED to at least slow down in front of his very house. The same if you are exiting Boscombe Rd onto Brookfield Rd - you need to actually stop to check for traffic - and you stop practically at GBC's gate. Any driver that happened to have been coming out, or going into, Boscombe Rd that night and necessarily stopped or slowed in front of GBC's house would have had time to notice a car parked in front of his stairs (it's likely GBC parked the car with the back to the stairs IMO for easier access and it's also likely he opened all the doors to block visibility from the road to what was going on IMO). There's not much movement after dark in Brookfield and this is precisely what a slowing driver would notice IMO, especially if it happened quite late at night.

    The above rumour is also one of the first ones I heard - very early on, when the thought that GBC might have something to do with it was still not the thing you'd say in public - on 25th April when my partner and I were searching our property hoping to find Allison or clues to her disappearance. My partner turned to me even as we peered under lantana bushes and said, "oh, did I mention [someone at his work] has a friend who reported to police seeing (above rumour)?" It was then it really hit me that we'd probably not find Allison alive. After that I waited for the rumour to be mentioned on these pages - and it did, but surprisingly only after a long while. I have tried to register before but this IPad (which has been surgically attached to me for the last 2 months) wouldn't let me, for some reason. Part of me thought it was a good thing that I was not involving myself in WS because I was so emotionally involved as it was. But I couldn't keep quiet any longer.

    I'm not saying the driveway sighting is more than a rumour, but I personally believe that if GBC in fact carried Allison down those stairs (I don't think his carport has internal access into the house) and placed her in the car, it would have taken him quite some time, even if he had help. Time enough for any Boscombe Rd resident entering or exiting the easement to have noticed. (Note: The Boscombe Rd I'm referring to is the section leading up to the State Forest, not the section where the local school is.)
    Hello Thebutler & welcome....I think if anyone did happen to see the car/s in GBC's driveway that night with the doors open or any other activity...they could possibly be called as witnesses...especially if the sightings were after 10pm when GBC claims he was asleep.
    Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light.
    ......George Washington


    Integrity is choosing your thoughts and actions based on values rather than personal gain.

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  25. #1464
    Ok I have to give this devil's advocate a go and no it is not because of the good doc's suggestion but a result if looking at the photo on GBC s affidavit. There is a level of defiance in that look which I have not seen before IMO and also the wording of his affidavit (even though obviously worded by his legals), where he says that he knew from day 1 that police were not looking at any other person. Just something a bit arrogant about that statement.

    A few years ago one of my close colleagues at work fell in live with this guy, who seemed very nice, also in the same work place. They moved in together but he had issues with alcohol and dope and would go into long silent retreats etc. to cut a long story short it turned out he had committed an armed robbery early one morning with some 'friends' to get money for more alcohol. His MOTHER decided that as he was the one in the family with a good job they would fix the alibi and worse case scenario his younger brother who looked like him would have the weaker alibi and as the QPS could not get anything on him this would be fine. It was hanging over him and them for three years until one morning some detectives awoke him from his slumber and charged him. His previous girlfriend (from the time of the offence) had decided to ring crime stoppers and don the whole family in.

    What if something similar is going on with the BCs? Greg you will like this! What if OW was babysitting something happened between OW and ABC, OW lost the plot and ABC fell heavily or was the subject of the army grip explained by other posters above. GBC tried to stop it, OW scratched him, they realise ABC is dead. Load her into the car but need more help and need to get OW away from the crime scene. So ring NBC and hence the cars going there plus NGB sitting at the bus stop crying.

    So unless we know where OW was that night, and god forbid what he children may have to say, this may be another way of looking at things. Damn, the doctor made me do it!!
    Just some other thoughts, all IMO

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  27. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionsgalore View Post
    I'll admit when you first showed up on the blogs last night, I found your 'tone' somewhat derogatory, I've since read your follow up posts and decided it was my interpretation not your intention that caused me to think that


    MOO
    Thanks for that - it most certainly was/is NOT my intention to be derogatory. Merely to highlight that all of us who are not in the QPS are working with limited information, which we get via the MSM. And therefore, our perceptions are formed by that limited info.

    We also have to assume that the QPS have a lot more info, and that they think they've got it right.

    But we have to leave room for the twist, the unexpected. And as I've said previously, highly unlikely, but possible.

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  29. #1466
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWatson View Post
    If you're speculating about injectables, then simple potassium chloride is the quickest by far. No need to get fancy with insulin (takes a while), or any of the fancy anaesthetic drugs. Good old KCl will do it nicely - that's what is used to stop the heart during cardiac surgery, and also used for lethal injections in those places where they carry them out.

    But you didn't learn that from me, right?

    Now I really am off to bed...!
    I am not comfortable with this drug and its function being named on a public forum. Is this negligent? It is an internet forum and anybody can be on this with anonymous persona.
    Another medical poster chose not to name the drug in an earlier thread for this very reason.

    Can this drug be purchased illegally over the internet? How would the alleged Perp get access to this drug? corrupt doctors involved perhaps? Just sayin'
    Last edited by Fuskier; 06-26-2012 at 10:24 PM. Reason: typo

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  31. #1467
    Quote Originally Posted by ActusReus View Post
    Spot on....if the first text message had given an indication that he was concerned/worried/frantic then it would be explainable. But by his own admission (wording of the text) he wasn't worried at 6.20am.

    I wonder what other calls/texts, if any, were made between 6.20am and 7.15am? Was anyone else contacted to enquire if they had seen Alison?
    Did he try to ring ? did he use facetalk or iMessage ? Would he normally use standard text or would he use facetalk or iMessage ?


    MOO

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  33. #1468
    Quote Originally Posted by Nads View Post
    The luminol was just so totally absent from the carpet in the back of the carpet. Any luminol experts?
    But not from the handles... which are to lift that back area of carpet out from the car.

    So he lifts the carpet out, puts something in there.... and ABC is in that.

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  35. #1469
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWatson View Post
    Grannie - trust me - I'm a doctor... (joke! - the "trust me" bit at least)

    That first link is discussing laser surgery in the lungs - nothing to do with "injecting" air at all. And the second one is describing a paediatric cardiac surgery post-op case. They comment, as did I, on the fact that it is rare. And the situation was exactly what I described when I said that cardiac surgery is one area where air has to be evacuated from the system at the time of surgery. Carotid surgery is another.

    Neither of those links describes "injecting air" or negates the info I posted. And yes, I do know what I'm talking about.... Both of those situations are ones that I have spent many, many years doing myself.

    While I'm more than happy to have "robust" discussions on anything, there would seem to be little point in having verified professionals on here, if their posts - especially ones regarding facts - are not even believed and people then try to "prove" them wrong. I'm not trying to say that everything I may post is never wrong - I post on other aspects of the case that have no more "cred" than anyone else does. But when it comes to posts on facts in my area of expertise, then if someone wants to argue the points, that would seem to be a bit presumptuous. Do you really think I would post something in my area of expertise that I wasn't certain was correct? If you went to see a specialist and they gave you some information - would you argue and try to tell them they were wrong? Again - don't get me wrong - I'm all for inquiring minds and skepticism. But isn't that why I had to prove my credentials before my membership here was approved? Please give me some credit for knowing what I'm talking about.

    And let me reiterate - I do believe that GBC is looking more and more like the guilty party, on the evidence we have. And I'm not trying to steer people's thoughts away from that - but just to keep minds open that there COULD - just maybe - be another explanation for the events. Highly unlikely, as I've said - but possible.
    DrWatson, the provided examples link air embolism to cardiac arrest contrary to your point that the outcome should only be a stroke. Not to mention the possibility of a fatal outcome from arterial air embolism. Regardless of the injection method. WRT the case, all what's relevant is the COD.

    I have nothing to say about your credentials simply because I do not know you and what you have presented to the mods, if anything. But in response to your hypothetical example, I can say yes, I do have experience in identifying genuinely wrong or due to negligence errors by medical experts.

    According to the book called Wrong: Why Experts Keep Failing Us – and How to Know When Not to Trust Them by David H. Freedman
    • About two-thirds of the findings published in leading medical journals are refuted within a few years.
    • As much as 90% of physicians’ medical knowledge has been found to be substantially or completely wrong.
    • There is a one-in-12 chance that a doctor’s diagnosis will be so wrong that it causes the patient significant harm.
    .
    Mods, sorry for off top. Back to the topic. The theory about Allison's COD from air embolism has not so far got supported or ruled out so we can only speculate. JMO.

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  37. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheerluck Holmes View Post
    I didnt know he had given a DNA sample and that photos were taken of his scratches etc. So now I am wondering why he crashed the car the next day, I always thought it was to cover up any injuries.
    From that same link..in the timeline...

    April 22, 2012

    Mr Baden-Clay was involved in an accident on the way to Indooroopilly police station. Police allege there no brake marks at the scene and Mr Baden-Clay refused to answer questions about the crash.

    They allege the crash was staged to "mask injuries or to cause self-injury".

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1ywf27Rpf
    ---------------------------------

    Until we hear more about that crash, it wouldn't surprise me if it was an attempt to kill himself. Back then he would have already known police would find a stack of evidence against him...except he forgot to take off his seatbelt & ended up a little bit hurt instead of a little bit dead...just my opinion.
    Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light.
    ......George Washington


    Integrity is choosing your thoughts and actions based on values rather than personal gain.

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  39. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuskier View Post
    I am not comfortable with this drug and its function being named on a public forum. Is this negligent? It is an internet forum and anybody can be on his with anonymous persona.
    Another medical poster chose not to name the drug in an earlier thread for this very reason.

    Can this drug be purchased illegally over the internet? How would the alleged Perp get access to this drug? corrupt doctors involved perhaps? Just sayin'
    Fair point, Fuskier. But KCl is widely known, has been described in the MSM many, many times in relation to lethal injections, and is also named on popular TV shows such as RPA when describing how the heart is stopped. It is not strictly speaking a drug - it is a simple salt of potassium, and is widely available in any hospital at ward level, and not hard to get hold of.

    Wouldn't need to be purchased over the internet. And would be more widely known already than using, say, insulin as someone else suggested. My point was that insulin takes some time to work, and is unnecessarily complicated.

    I'm very aware of posting anything that may be used by someone who may not have the best intentions at heart. But, as I said, KCl doesn't need any publicity from me.

    But - fair enough point to ask.

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  41. #1472
    Quote Originally Posted by Even View Post
    Great discussions. Have to say I think gbc has a lot of explaining to do but...

    The luminol pics are being used by QPS to try and get informers to come forward IMO. Given that alkaline cleaners, saliva, copper compounds, rust, animal blood, bleach can all react with luminol I find it unconvincing. If you look at the drips and where the luminol is patchy, it appears to be the result you'd get when spraying bleach or a cleaner. The key question here is did they dna test all of the luminol areas or only a few selected points ?

    It could be the case that small blood spots were picked up by close inspection before using luminol and these were tested and matched to allisons blood. With the luminol only showing the result of cleaning with bleach. Something you'd do if a child is sick and vomits everywhere.
    I thought given their children that it was entirely possible that the stains were from a child... either a drink or vomit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Even View Post
    Let's assume all the luminol is showing allisons blood from when she is dead. Where is the blood in the house presuming she was killed in the house. To me, lots of blood when dead translates to there being even more blood when alive and injured and blood pumping around under pressure. Where is the blood at the crime scene ?
    Last night, it struck me that the scratches on GBC were 'under his arms', as well as his chest and neck.
    I was pondering the position you'd have to be in for scratches under the arms and that would be if the person asphyxiating you was on top of you at your head end...

    So I wondered whether ABC had taken a bath... she had the conference the next day... GBC pushes her under and holds her there from her head end... which is how the chipped eye tooth happens - on the bath... and how he is scratched 'under the arms'... He is over her head.... her arms are raised and she scratches him.

    which leads us to the car... and the stains... could she have vomited up blood and water whilst being transported?

    Alternatively, if he'd put a pillow over her face, she could have scratched him then. It's the 'under the arms' which is confusing... what position would you be in if that happened?
    Perhaps she's on the sofa... he comes behind her with the pillow...

    Perhaps any blood came from her hands. We've thought it would be from hands and feet, but perhaps she was spread in the back of the car and each hand was touching the wheel arch. Perhaps she has lacerations on her hands or she's bleeding from losing a nail or some other such thing from when she scratched him. She has fairly long nails in the photographs I've seen of her.

    These things might not necessarily show up under a cursory inspection at autopsy of the outside of the body... esp not after ten days.. when things will be quite difficult to ID?

    MOO

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  43. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheerluck Holmes View Post
    I didnt know he had given a DNA sample and that photos were taken of his scratches etc. So now I am wondering why he crashed the car the next day, I always thought it was to cover up any injuries.
    It was reported in MSM that he'd had a bit of a breakdown. I think he was probably panicked because of having given the DNA etc the day before and distracted, possibly worried pollice were closing in?

    Where did he go that day, does anyone know?

    I know of a man whose ex wife reported him to police in the disappearance and murder of someone. It was a very tough, stressful time for his whole family, including their mutual children and he was cleared, she was just being malicious. It really takes a toll being under suspicion. It almost caused a divorce and suicide, it just had such a huge effect on them.

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  45. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Even View Post
    Great discussions. Have to say I think gbc has a lot of explaining to do but...

    As for the phone being put in it's charger at 2 in he morning. If the mains power goes off and on, this too, i believe, would be recorded as the phone being placed in its charger.

    Personally I believe gbc downfall will be what comes back from google as to his searches over the last year or so. Google knows everything you do. It even knows all the things you typed into the search box but then deleted before hitting search! This is where the real incriminating stuff will come from IMO.
    Good post mate, just add to the mains going off then on that would result in 2 power events....one a transition to battery when the power is cut...the second the transition to charger when power was restored.

    cheers
    Last edited by Greg; 06-26-2012 at 07:52 PM. Reason: modify

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  47. #1475
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    DrWatson, the provided examples link air embolism to cardiac arrest contrary to your point that the outcome should only be a stroke. Not to mention the possibility of a fatal outcome from arterial air embolism. Regardless of the injection method.
    Grannie - I really don't want to get off on the wrong foot here, and fall out with other posters, but you really don't seem to be able to take any opinions that differ from yours at all, do you?

    I suggest that you go back and read what I posted originally. And I'll repeat - arterial air embolism, if injected into an artery, goes peripherally. If I inject air into your femoral artery, it goes down your leg. Injecting it into a carotid artery would send it to the brain and cause a stroke (often temporary as the air bubble breaks up then gets absorbed). The main ways that air embolism can cause cardiac arrest are if the air gets into the coronary arteries at the time of surgery (which is why so much trouble is taken to evacuate the air as I said), or if the air is injected into a vein in truly massive quantities, enough to cause pulmonary air embolism. And I mean LARGE quantities of air. That air would have to pass all the way through the lungs into the left side of the heart, then some MAY enter the coronaries.

    The only other situation where a large air embolus could get into the coronaries would be if the person had a patent atrial septal defect, with a large right-to-left shunt. But here we're talking highly unusual and specific abnormalities.

    It is NOT a simple matter of injecting a syringe full of air into a vein, as you see in the movies. If you've ever worked in a hospital and seen the number of IV lines that run out, with air running into the vein, then you would know that this is NOT an easy thing to achieve.

    OK - sorry if we seem to be getting a bit carried away and off-topic here. But if injecting air into a vein could cause cardiac arrest so easily, do you really think that IV lines would be left to nursing staff including student nurses to administer? I doubt it...

    Maybe I'd better limit my comments more - there are some who may have missed the points of my posts. And many who really don't want to consider that while GBC certainly seems to be guilty on the evidence we have, there HAS to be room for other possibilities. His lawyers will make sure of that, whether we like it or not.

    OK - I'll be quiet now...

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