Yes she had been thinking about killing them for some time
No she just snapped and killed them
No, Darlie is innocent
No, Darin is the real killer
She had fantasized about it for awhile. The events earlier in the night brought her fantasy to reality.
Yes, but not for a long period of time.
Do you think Darlie premeditated the murders of Devon and Damon or did she kill them in a fit of rage?
Yes she had been thinking about killing them for some time
I do think she had been thinking about it for a time. How long I don't know. Darlie was for Darlie. Money was becoming scarce and I don't think she had real interest's in children either. Just my opinion of course.
A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you never knew was empty....
I've always thought that Damon was one sad little boy. Every picture I have ever seen of Damon he just looks so lost and sad. I also believe that it was Devon that really was getting under her skin. I remember the lady from the pawn shop saying how ugly Darlie would talk to the boys when they were shopping in the pawn shop. Darlie would call the boys little s---s and little f-----s. What kind of mother calls their own children such names. Did Darlie think people wouldn't remember her being mean to her kids in public. If she was that mean to them in public I shutter to think what it must have been like in their own home.
Yes, I believe that Darlie premeditated the murders of Devon and Damon. She did not come across as sincere from the beginning. At the time this happened, I lived in the Dallas area ... and local gossip was that LE did not find her story believable either.
She was trying to be a socialite in Rowlett, they were having financial problems, and the husband's business seem to be failing to some extent, or not sufficient enough to please Darlie.
Her throwing the "silly putty" over their graves of those precious boys just made me sick.
I believe Darlie did plan the murders, and I also believe she truly thought she would get away with it. For me, her demeanor on the 911 call speaks volumes. I'm not sure whether her motivation was money - because she really did not gain anything monetarily from the death of Devon and Damon; I think she wanted to be free of the responsibility of being a mom, and if Drake had been downstairs that night, I think she would have killed him too.
"I bear the chain I forged in life...I made it of my own free will and of my own free will I wore it....your chain was fully as long as this seven Christmas Eve's ago - and you have labored on it since." Jacob Marley
MURDERER'S! You know g**damn well what happened to your kid so stop playing the victim and just confess you lying murdering liars! - Mr. Chris Stotch - South Park
All posts are my opinion only.
There is an analysis of the Routier 911 call on the Seamus O' Riley blogspot. He breaks it down step-by-step. I tried to post the website, but it wouldn't let me.
Yes I believe she did premeditate.
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A couple specific contradictions in her stories make her guilt clearly apparent. She first claimed that her wounded son woke her up. Then she claim to have been awaken by a knife-yielding assailant.
Clearly, there is no intruder. Therefore, her wounds must be self-inflicted. She did not have time to place the bloody sock after the self-inflicted wounds. Therefore, she must have prepared for killing her sons.
I feel quite sure whatever happened between her and Darin that night is the cause of the children's deaths.
The marriage was on the rocks, the business was failing, Darin and Darlie had been fighting for months. Gone was her big beautiful house and all her nice things, gone was the money. Gone were the vacations she could take to get away from it all, gone were the parties in hotels where she could go to get away from it all.
She's going back to her mother or out on her own, only this time with three children in tow.
I think she was unhappy in her marriage and with the strain of 3 children, possibly some post partum depression and a lot of "poor me". She probably had been thinking of it for some time but never really planned it in depth. I think her sleeping downstairs away from Darin gave her the opportunity to do this. She would get sympathy and attention and be rid of her responsibilities of caring for the older boys. Her 911 call makes it sound as if she expected Darin would not believe her. If she had put more thought into it she may have gotten away with it. As it were, I think opportunity and unhappiness led her to act before she had formulated a real plan.
On the topic of narcissism, I did a bit of research and came across the concept of narcissistic rage (source: A.H. Almaas):
Intensity of Reactive Anger
...has special characteristics because the narcissistic hurt is different from other types of emotional pain. The fact that this hurt is very vulnerable, and opens up to an emptiness signifying the dissolution of identity, imbues the reactive anger with an intensity and hardness rarely seen in other kinds of anger.
The Point of Existence, p. 324
Hatred that Underlies the Desire for Vengeance
The (narcissitic) rage may turn into, or be accompanied by, a cold hatred that gives her qualities of power, invincibility, and calculation. This hatred underlies the desire for vengeance, for wanting to inflict pain and suffering, and for actually enjoying getting back at the person who failed her.
The Point of Existence, p. 327
Provocation of Narcissistic Rage
The narcissistic individual, or the normal individual at this phase of development, is prone to intense anger, an irrational rage, which may take the form of acute explosions or be chronic and vengeful. This narcissistic rage is provoked by the slightest—real or imagined—narcissistic insult, such as not being seen, understood, or appreciated, in the way one feels he deserves. Narcissistic envy may arise; one hates anyone who has (or seems to have), a rich inner life or external acclaim and feels pain about not having what the other has.
The Point of Existence, p. 327
If Darlie is truly a narcissist, could she have gone into a narsissistic rage that night, after the fight? I guess if they were fighting about money and if one of the topics was that she can't go on the trip with her girl friends because there is no money and the loan was declined, and she is stressed out and a slave to her family at home and she feels she deserves it...Just speculating, but if she was in a cold rage, possibly she might have premeditated - but only shortly before she did the deed. If she had planned it well in advance, why would she have spent money on buying plane tickets to the family event a few weeks later?
A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination - Nelson Mandela
I've always thought it was premeditated. Maybe not by days, but at least that evening, and she waited til the boys fell asleep.
Well, since premeditation can be as much as a few seconds, I would have to say yes. I don't think she was thinking about killing them for a very long time, but who knows. I just think if she had really thought it out, she might have staged that crime scene better.
I know she should have thought out that cemetery party more thoroughly.
Many people can talk the talk, some people really know how to walk the walk, but it is a rare few who get to dance the dance!
ઇઉ Kimmy aka Cassata
To the disbelief of society, 1400 to 2000 childen are murdered in the US each year. Four or five children die at their parents hands every day, nearly all killed before they enter first grade. Half of them are killed by their mothers: young, often in the twenties, married, the biological mother of a child or children they bore early--and with no history of previous arrest. The children of these mothers were often killed in their homes.
In many ways, Darlie Routier fit the profile.
Most of the woman killed to protect a sense of themselves, their own sanity. They often manufactured a story to cover their acts. The story usually came after they initially killed--a way of dealing with their own sense of guilt, shame or their own shock at what they had done. The relied on society's deep resistance to believing they could be responsible. To deal with the overwhelming guilt, they went into denial. Denial supported by an outpouring of sumpathy and support.
But motives for killing could also include revenge. Had Darlie been trying to get back at Darin? Or one of the children?
Often the killing is simply in response to overwhelming levels of stress. The unfinished suicide note written only a month earlier by Darlie Routier could only be perceived as a cry for help. She tried to communicate how scared, how worried and how overwhelmed she was, but people didn't listen (except Basia).
Perhaps she couldn't stand the thought of the her children growing up wtihout her (I find this hard to believe).
Most women who kill their children are pushed to their mental limits and have diminished ability to deal with raising their children. Some suffer personalities disorders in which they new grew up. Some had never acquired moral values. Frequently, they were reenacting their own childhood traumas, including sexual abuse, or the divorce or death of a parent.
This is from Pat Springer's book.
First of all, you are so knowledgeable on this subject (Darlie). I spent days and days going back over all the posts on this board and you seem to have answered any question that I might have been asking, so thanks for that!
I just finished reading Pat Springers book last night and I couldn't sleep. I kept waking up in the night going over and over it in my head. HOW could she do it? How?
I think for a long long time I have been on the fence about Darlie. Even after I read the transcripts I would formulate different scenarios in my head about the evidence could have got where it got , no matter how ludicrous they were.
Re: the narcissism thing, this makes a lot of sense. Even down to some people believing in her innocence- I think some of the people who know her that believe in her innocence just never saw the other side of Darlie. I think shes a master manipulator.
I also think that the crime is so SO horrible that no one wants to believe it. I know I don't.
And I agree with everyone that there was some premeditation. It might have been minutes, it might have been hours. And she fully expected and probably still expects to get away with it.
I think she planned it. I'm not excusing her actions but post-natal depression (post-partum depression in US) can be a very serious illness. I think Darlie was struggling with the demands both she and Darin put on her. She wanted to be a socialite, a business woman, a great mom, a perfect wife. She and Darin aspired to a lifestyle and the struggles of the business financially, the pressures of 3 small boys, the big house, and even Darin's car always breaking down was just too much.
While I think she, and Darin to some extent were involved, I don't think she deserves the death penalty as post natal depression is a mental defect. I don't think she was thinking straight.
Think about it. Do you really think Darlie is clever enough to plan the neck wound, the blood on the couch pillow, the cut in the screen, planting the sock, the glass, etc. off the top of her head? No, she had to think of some or all of those things beforehand, premeditate. Probably not weeks before. Maybe not days before. Likely hours before, though.
I'm going to take my ball and go home
Most of us, even the people that believe her to be guilty, think Darin is involved in some way and that Darlie may have been trying to kill herself.
Personally, I don't see that fitting her personality. If I had to give an opinion on it I'd say she just wanted a dramatic wound and wasn't thinking at all about the danger.
I'm going to take my ball and go home
I might be very wrong, but after reading a lot on this case and watching interviews with Darlie, I have a gut feeling that she didn't plan any of this in advance. I think something really exploded inside of her that night, some kind of devilish chemistry in her brain, some unexplainable reaction that resulted in such a tragedy. I don't think she calculated anything at all, she just let out all of her deepest darkest demons. And then at some point she must have realized what she is doing and panically started to stage the crime scene in order to avoid being accused for committing this horrible crime. I am not sure if she wanted to kill herself also, I think that not, because if she'd really plan the murders+suicide in advance, I think she would have chosen a different method both for boys and herself, one that would work for sure and was easier to execute.
Although I think she experienced some relief after the murders (because she doesn't seem sad, not even a bit), I also think that she has made herself believe that she's telling the truth. I know it sounds strange and complicated, but I think Darlie accepted lies for truth, that is why she can look you in the eye and say - I didn't do it.
I think she is mentally very very disturbed.
I think she fantasized A LOT about how much better her life would be with just one or no kids. I'm sure she spent a lot of time daydreaming and visualizing having to spend a lot less time doing the mundane duties of a mother of three and having more leisure time.
I doubt she visualized the actual killing but it seems like she must have formulated a basic plan on how to kill the boys and where everyone would have to be to dramatically decrease the chances of Darin catching her in the murders, whatever she'd have to do to stage the scene and where she'd be and what she'd be doing when he came downstairs.
She had to make sure he and Drake were upstairs and both boys were sleeping soundly in the same room. She was at least smart enough to know she'd have to create a grizzly scene in order to sell her intruder ruse. I dont' think she was prepared for how much blood would come out of her boys. She certainly was not expecting one of them to not die immediately and to have to stab him a second round of times.
Most people, when they think of killing someone, think of only a few realistic methods. Guns, stabbings, poison, strangling.
She knew guns were out. Poison is too uncertain and might not work. Strangling takes way too long and she knew she couldn't strangle one while the other one ran away. She stabbed them both in a way that greatly increased the chance of almost instant death. Other than a shooting or pulling a Susan Smith, what better way could she devise with a built-in excuse to blame it on some unknown person?
We know she ideated suicide, and I'm sure she did a lot more than her one diary note detailed. Most people who ideate suicide do a lot more times then they ever tell. As weird as it may sound, I think she was all in on killing the boys but on the fence about killing herself.
Either that, or she decided to postpone serious attempts at suicide until after she knew her sons were dead....sort of a wait until the point of no return to make the decision. She underestimated how hard it would be to make the decision to kill herself and only half-assed the slash to her throat. Once she slit her own throat, she figured she's got a 50-50 chance of survival (based, again, on not realized how much she'd bleed) and at that point the reality and guilt kicked in and she figured she should die for her trangressions.
She played a lot of it off the cuff. Other than knocking the table over to create the illusion of a fight and maybe breaking the wine glass, she went about staging the scene rather frantically and spontaneously.
She knew beforehand she would have to do a few things to stage a fake intruder, but obviously she didn't put much thought into slashing the screen with her own knife or the fact that there would be no blood found outdoors....anywhere.... and that that would be the first and primary evidence against her.
Obviously she slit her throat over the sink. At first she was thinking like a housewife, not wanting to create an enormous mess by cleaning up the sink. Then she figured she'd toss a few things around and make it look worse.
She had her intruder worked up beforehand, at least in rough fashion, judging by her comments to 911 about looking around for missing items.
She really did not do any real homework on anything and did not even attempt to figure out how 911 responders, EMT's or detectives read crime scenes. Overall, like most staged murders, it was a completely half assed job.
Agreed, she felt enormous relief shortly after the act. Her behavior in the hospital was nothing like real grief and shock.
When I watch the Silly String video I see (morbid as it sounds) her doing a Victory Dance. She figured if they didn't arrest her in a day or two, she had gotten away with it. Watch her body language. The gum chewing. The big grins. The little jig. Now watch Darin's. Hands in his pockets (helpless, severly uncomfortable), the stiffness in his stance. The subtle disbelief in his face. He's so stunned he can't even bring himself to cry.
My unprofessional diagnosis is she's severely sociopathic and very potentially psychopathic. Someone else here mentioned histrionic personality disorder (certainly, based on her rape story from her dating Darin days) and certainly narcissistic personality disorder. Which all just means what you said, she's highly disturbed in ways that most people can not and will never understand.
Oh, and she's a pathological liar, which Darin HAD to have known by the time they got married.
I honestly think the silly string video's importance has been overplayed from day one. People do celebrate birthdays at the graveside. Ok, right after the death of a child may seem mad, but there was a whole block of video of them doing the more "normal" graveside things, prior to the silly string being squirted. I honestly believe it's got no bearing on the case. Darlie's sister brought the silly string, not Darlie. I think she saw it as a way to remember they were little boys. It was a release of tension. A sad birthday tribute to a 7 year old who would have been squirting the silly string himself had he been alive. Ok it wasn't the best idea probably and a lot of people think it's distasteful but people grieve and celebrate the lives of those who have died in different ways. I don't think Darlie's sister meant anything by it.