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  1. #1
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    CA - Lake Elsinore, WhtFem Skeletal UP7133, 18-25, spina bifida, Jan'86

    NamUs UP # 7133 https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7133

    Unidentified Female (Race Not Determined)

    Found on January 29, 1986 on a hillside near Hwy 74 west of the look-out, Lake Elsinore (Riverside County) California

    Vital Stats
    Estimated Age: 18-25 years
    Race: Unsure
    Weight: Cannot Estimate
    Height: Cannot Estimate

    Condition
    Scattered assorted bones, Not recognizable - Partial skeletal parts only
    Probable year of death: 1984 to 1985
    Estimated postmortem interval: 1 Year

    Circumstances
    Partial skull and assorted bones found above ground on steep brush covered hillside. Gunshot to skull. No identification or personal items located.

    Medical Information
    It appears that this person has had spina bifida since birth according to our pathologist.

    Identifiers:
    Fingerprints Not Available
    Dental: Available for maxillary teeth only, no mandible.
    DNA: Sample is currently not available
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-21-2013 at 10:21 PM.

  2. #2
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    Deanna Lynn Saccone

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ne_deanna.html

    * Age (18) is consistent.
    * Timeframe - About 3 months from Date LKA to Discovery
    * Her Charley page indicates that she had "slight scoliosis". According to the Wikipedia page on Scoliosis, "Scoliosis is sometimes associated with other conditions such as ... spina bifida ...".

    Not a lot of info on either the MP or the Jane Doe, but based on her scoliosis, this seems to me to be worth a look. She isn't listed in NamUs as a rule-out, but then again, she isn't listed in NamUs as a Missing Person.

    I wish I knew what part of Los Angeles she was from. Depending on what side of town, she could have been very close or very far from Lake Elsinore.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 06-27-2012 at 12:30 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Deanna Lynn Sacone looks promising - the timeframe is good.

    I wonder if the Spina Bifida find could be a possible red herring clue? The deceased indeed had it but only her parents/close family members knew? Especially if it effects were slight given her age of death. Often the scoliosis isnt really visible to others until person is in their late 30s or early 40s in my opinion. So I dont think there will be many if any missing reports that would have spina bifida on them in 1986 unless they were wheelchair bound. I also wonder if this UID girl could have spent time in foster care??? Simply because children with physical disabilities are more likely to end up in the foster system then able bodied children for many different reasons. That could explain why she has not been missed by family members?

  4. #4
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    Scoliosis is curvature of the spine. Spina Bifida has to do with the spinal cord, sheath covering it, and the vertebrae. No pathologist is going to confuse the two. Also, scoliosis is mostly a childhood disorder b/c it comes with bad posture, and it is very obvious because if it is even very slight you can tell something is up b/c the person's shoulders look slanted when a person with it is standing. An adult could develop it though, if they injure their back and start standing/sitting weird to relieve pain.

    redwood/carl: there are 3 'levels' of spina bifida.

    The least severe type is called Spina Bifida Occulta where the spinal cord and cover are fine, and sometimes covered by skin, it's just that the bones surrounding it aren't completely formed. This type might not be identified until later on, if at all. Would be diagnosed with an x-ray.

    The intermediate type is called Meningoceles which is when the spinal cord is fine, but the tissue that covers it sticks out into the spaces in the vertebrae. Nervous system really isn't effected so there aren't any real obvious issues, except for maybe a fluid filled sac on the back. I.E. no wheelchair needed.

    The most severe type is Myelomeningocele which is basically where the bones in the spine and the spinal canal don't close before birth, so the spinal cord is sticking out of the skin through a hole. Sensation issues and paralyzation is found in this type. The person would most definitely need to use a wheelchair. There was a movie that Frankie Muniz starred in, and he had this condition (in the movie).
    Last edited by buffetoflies; 06-27-2012 at 11:16 PM.

  5. #5
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    From the Wikipedia page on Scoliosis:
    Associated conditions

    Scoliosis is sometimes associated with other conditions such as ... spina bifida ...
    Scoliosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by KateB; 04-29-2015 at 06:55 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffetoflies View Post
    Scoliosis is curvature of the spine. Spina Bifida has to do with the spinal cord, sheath covering it, and the vertebrae. No pathologist is going to confuse the two. Also, scoliosis is mostly a childhood disorder b/c it comes with bad posture, and it is very obvious because if it is even very slight you can tell something is up b/c the person's shoulders look slanted when a person with it is standing. An adult could develop it though, if they injure their back and start standing/sitting weird to relieve pain.

    redwood/carl: there are 3 'levels' of spina bifida.

    The least severe type is called Spina Bifida Occulta where the spinal cord and cover are fine, and sometimes covered by skin, it's just that the bones surrounding it aren't completely formed. This type might not be identified until later on, if at all. Would be diagnosed with an x-ray.

    The intermediate type is called Meningoceles which is when the spinal cord is fine, but the tissue that covers it sticks out into the spaces in the vertebrae. Nervous system really isn't effected so there aren't any real obvious issues, except for maybe a fluid filled sac on the back. I.E. no wheelchair needed.

    The most severe type is Myelomeningocele which is basically where the bones in the spine and the spinal canal don't close before birth, so the spinal cord is sticking out of the skin through a hole. Sensation issues and paralyzation is found in this type. The person would most definitely need to use a wheelchair. There was a movie that Frankie Muniz starred in, and he had this condition (in the movie).

    I understand very well the different types of Spina Bifda. But my point was that any potential match such as Deanna or any other would not have Spina Bifida listed as they might have a mild form of the the Spina Bifida (occult). I apologize if I was not I clear - I do not believe we are looking for someone who used a wheelchair.


    My understanding that many forms of Childhood scoliosis are actually due to some underlying condition Rhetts syndrome and AMC spring to mind .

  7. #7
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    With so little to go by I wonder if it is worth calling in? I wish that there was more information about Deanna out there.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood146 View Post
    With so little to go by I wonder if it is worth calling in? I wish that there was more information about Deanna out there.
    I already kicked off an e-mail last Tuesday to Carrie Sutherland of UNT and Rick Bogan of the Riverside County Sheriff.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffetoflies View Post
    scoliosis is mostly a childhood disorder b/c it comes with bad posture
    This is a myth; scoliosis is not caused by bad posture. I remember my mother constantly telling me this when I was a child, so I tried to straighten my posture as much as possible. People would comment about how nice my posture was, but I still developed scoliosis.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    I already kicked off an e-mail last Tuesday to Carrie Sutherland of UNT and Rick Bogan of the Riverside County Sheriff.
    Hello Carl, I assume you never heard back about this potential match? This might be one worth pursuing further with the scoliosis-spina bifida connecrion.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    604
    Rule outs for this UID so far:
    Anna Anderson 1964 California
    Michelle Duncan 1984 California
    Leslie Porter 1984 California
    Mary Rawlinson 1966 California

  12. #12
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    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1dfnd.html Barbara Cotton MissingSince April 11, 1981, 15 years, from Williston, Williams County, North Dakota. Curvature of spine which may cause a slight limp when she walks? Just a suggestion.
    Still believe in the human race.....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bit of hope View Post
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1dfnd.html Barbara Cotton MissingSince April 11, 1981, 15 years, from Williston, Williams County, North Dakota. Curvature of spine which may cause a slight limp when she walks? Just a suggestion.
    This could work. There's so little info on the JD that it's hard to say either way. It's geographically quite a distance between the two.

    I wonder if the LE on Barbara's case could ask the family if they think spina bifida (diagnosed or undiagnosed) was a possibility for her.

    I think you should submit it.

  14. #14
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    I agree with you about the distance between missing and found, especially because Barbara was so young. That gave me doubts too. Also curvature of spine is quit different than Spina Bifida...but not an impossible conclusion, based on the description.
    Still believe in the human race.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bit of hope View Post
    I agree with you about the distance between missing and found, especially because Barbara was so young. That gave me doubts too. Also curvature of spine is quit different than Spina Bifida...but not an impossible conclusion, based on the description.
    The distance is at most across LA from where Deanna Saccone disappeared (it's not specified where in LA she disappeared from). That and the fact she had "light scoliosis" (maybe during the autopsy process it could be confused for spina bifida?) make me want check if she's been ruled in or out.
    Last edited by Otterly; 08-24-2017 at 12:58 PM.

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