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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK View Post
    True, but my gut tells me some verbal arm twisting went on, on Paterno's part... He minimized the victims the way he worded it as "sex between a man and boy", as if it was consensual.
    Well, his shocked statement is questionable, though McQueary said that he was visibly shocked.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  3. #62
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    Well, his shocked statement is questionable, though McQueary said that he was visibly shocked.
    Maybe Paterno was shocked when McQuery first told him, but then had time to go into denial mode. I know from personal experience when I told my mother of my molestation, the denial mode only took about 30 seconds or less to happen...
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.

    Jodi, hot enough for you yet in Perryville, the only place you'll see 'till you die?? You got your wish to live in the Phoenix area for the rest of your life.
    Travis Alexander was the victim of Domestic Violence.

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK View Post
    Maybe Paterno was shocked when McQuery first told him, but then had time to go into denial mode. I know from personal experience when I told my mother of my molestation, the denial mode only took about 30 seconds or less to happen...
    I don't think he would have been shocked if he was aware of Victim 6/B. K.

    He would have had time to process it by the conversation with Curley.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


  6. #64
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    if you have the time, the "comments" section of the local rag is a wealth of information, speculation, indgination and hyperbole.

    some of the commentors are state insiders with connections. a few are die hard fans, trying to keep the sinking ship afloat with smoke and mirrors. what seems clear is that as bad as we might have thought it actually is, its worse, much worse.

    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...mments-13.html
    IF I PUT IT HERE ITS MY OPINION. apparently i have no idea when i need to say that in a post, so this should cover it....IN MY OPINION anyways,

    welcome to the gates of hell JVDS.




    Jose Baez: “I sincerely believe that when we have finally spoken, everyone, and I mean everyone, will sit back and say, ‘Now, I understand. That explains it.’”



    Jose Baez to da judge :

    ".....that type of testing is unique. we requested that they be allowed to test items and that of course was objected to by the state and and uh the state uh granted or sustained their objection, denied our opportunity to have him test these items due to a very specialized field, subfield, of dna that he is one of the pioneers of uh in the alternative of we were granted the ability to test certain items by an outside lab...."


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  8. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK View Post
    From the recent articles I've read in the last couple of days it seems Paterno was. Curley didn't "change" his mind until right after the meeting with him. Seems to me like Paterno used some powerful dissuasion with him- like how it would impact the precious football team...
    I am now in agreement with those who call for taking down the statue of Paterno. He is no hero! How humane was it to let more boys be victimized while turning a blind eye? And nothing was done when Sandusky didn't change and just kept bringing more victims to the Penn State locker rooms and showers!
    More heads need to roll for enabling Sandusky, and the NCAA should also take severe action against Penn State.
    Maybe we should have a forum on this with threads for actions against Dottie, Penn State (Curley, Spanier, Shultz), and The Second Mile. Anyone else I've left out???
    I absolutely agree - take down the statue. He knew what was going on but felt the football team was more important. How much did his wife know? And what about Dottie, no one could be that much in denial.


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  10. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    Well, I'm still not convinced that Paterno knew about 1998 (though it is clear Curley did in 2001 and that Schultz did in 1998), or that McQueary's career development had anything to do with 2001 (I think the timing is against it).

    I don't move without evidence, but, unless Curley decided to lie on that one detail in private e-mails in 2001 (and there is no apparent reason for it), Paterno was involved after he reported and encouraged not reporting Sandusky to LE.

    That is damning.

    We have returned to Central Pennsylvania Gothic.
    Leaving the question of MM's job out, since I don't know anything about his job performance and if he was qualified or not...

    But I have always thought that Paterno had to know about 1998 also....from all the reports we've seen he was very proprietary about the football program and his players, even being instrumental in the VP of student affairs Vickey Triponey leaving her job. She stated Paterno urged her, in an email that has since become public, to “leave discipline of football players to the coach”......How she describes the culture? “A blind sense of loyalty—not just at the top, but at all levels.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-triponey.html
    (previously posted by StellarsJay)

    Take this atmosphere and Paterno's attitude about control of his program, the fact that JS still worked for him at the time and include the circumstances and content of Curley's email:

    Except that Curley sent an email to Schultz and school president Graham Spanier on Feb. 27, 2001, that changed everything.

    "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps. I am having trouble with going to everyone but the person involved. I would be more comfortable meeting with the person and tell them about the information we received and tell them we are aware of the first situation," Curley's email said, according to CNN.
    Now, to me it's obvious that his 'we' means all of them involved in this change of plan including Paterno whom he had just talked to about the plan and how to handle this new allegation. It makes no sense that Paterno and Curley would not discuss the 'first situation' in 'talking it over'. Do you really think that the man in control was not informed of a police, CPS and DA investigation of a coach that still worked for him?

    This may not be 'hard evidence' but circumstantial evidence and use of deduction is also allowed in court, that's what helped convict JS.

    IMO
    Last edited by Reader; 07-01-2012 at 06:25 PM.


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  12. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by costalpilot View Post
    if you have the time, the "comments" section of the local rag is a wealth of information, speculation, indgination and hyperbole.

    some of the commentors are state insiders with connections. a few are die hard fans, trying to keep the sinking ship afloat with smoke and mirrors. what seems clear is that as bad as we might have thought it actually is, its worse, much worse.

    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...mments-13.html
    Thanks. Will have to check it out. I have absolutely no doubt it's much worse than any of us can imagine but I do sorta, kinda worry that the Freeh report won't get into everyting. I guess I still have some fear of a coverup. There's no way that report should be mild.


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  14. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by back2back19 View Post
    Thanks. Will have to check it out. I have absolutely no doubt it's much worse than any of us can imagine but I do sorta, kinda worry that the Freeh report won't get into everyting. I guess I still have some fear of a coverup. There's no way that report should be mild.
    from what I read about Freeh, no need to worry. personally i have no knowledge, but a commentator said freeh would positiively do a thorough and complete investigation and that he would pull no punches. interestingly, the most "connected" of the commentators in the response column seem to be the most pessimistic, especially a guy named bierce(?)1 on page 11, who several responders acknowledged as being closer to the program than everyone else. this guy said the filth goes way, way back. way b4 anything that has as yet even been alluded to.

    frankly, I'm not surprised. joepa has been in charge a long time in happy valley. one road in;one road out.

    one more thing, the people that say, "this could have happened anywhere", are way off. no way it happens anywhere else. this was a unique situation. nowhere else is anything like this. this is the biggest scandal in SPORTS history. no doubt in my mind.

    all you had to know (to guess at how bad it REALLY was) is that joepa got summarily fired, in the middle of the season, the day after he announced his resignation at the end of the season.

    joe pa didnt get fired because his assistant was a pervert. and he didnt get fired cause he was an old man who didnt know a man could have sex with a boy. (funny about that, but in a way, its true. all an adult man can do is rape a minor boy, but that misses joes bs, misleading, lying point).

    imo joe got fired because he masterminded a massive, long running cover up that in part enabled a predator to find, stalk and victimize children. but joe wasnt alone. he just ran the show. apparently he had lots of help.

    in essence, the email meant this> the cover up is on. we have our orders. or, the cover up is on, Joes on board with it. if the latter, curly unilaterally altered a plan the three had agreed to. but that makes NO sense. not after he links joe to the reversal.

    one is left to conclude...joe directed the cover up.

    someone said, leave the statute. paint it yellow. but that's the color of cowardice. whats the color of evil?

    ann rule needs to cover this.
    IF I PUT IT HERE ITS MY OPINION. apparently i have no idea when i need to say that in a post, so this should cover it....IN MY OPINION anyways,

    welcome to the gates of hell JVDS.




    Jose Baez: “I sincerely believe that when we have finally spoken, everyone, and I mean everyone, will sit back and say, ‘Now, I understand. That explains it.’”



    Jose Baez to da judge :

    ".....that type of testing is unique. we requested that they be allowed to test items and that of course was objected to by the state and and uh the state uh granted or sustained their objection, denied our opportunity to have him test these items due to a very specialized field, subfield, of dna that he is one of the pioneers of uh in the alternative of we were granted the ability to test certain items by an outside lab...."


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  16. #69
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    Even with Sandusky convicted, it gets worse and worse for Penn State. It is obvious they knew what was going on, but they ignored it. Turned the other cheek mentality. What happened at Penn State is reminds me what happened with Soviet Union, Axis, Khmer Rouge, Maoist China, Rwanda, Uganda, and South Hadley. People knew what was going on, but no action was taken.




    HMS Hood
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    Pennant Number: 51
    Motto: Ventis Secundis ("With Favourable Winds")
    May 15, 1920-May 24, 1941


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  18. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post

    But I have always thought that Paterno had to know about 1998 also....from all the reports we've seen he was very proprietary about the football program and his players, even being instrumental in the VP of student affairs Vickey Triponey leaving her job. She stated Paterno urged her, in an email that has since become public, to “leave discipline of football players to the coach”......How she describes the culture? “A blind sense of loyalty—not just at the top, but at all levels.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-triponey.html
    (previously posted by StellarsJay)
    I will wait for actual evidence regarding Paterno and 1998. He was not in on the e-mails, so that could include Curley, Schultz, and Spanier, but not Paterno.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  20. #71
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    David Jones: Joe Paterno fans must accept that he was flawed

    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...tml#incart_hbx

    ........Today, we begin to deal with the man’s dark side. As it was the time then to extol some of Paterno’s virtues, now it is time to examine his liabilities.

    We all have both. Our culture seems more and more addicted to the concept of white hats and black hats, to taking sides, to painting the world and its inhabitants as either “good” or “evil.” It’s an infantile way to look at life and people, in my opinion........

    Those people will never believe what I have to say here because they are zealots in need of a hero, even if it’s someone they never knew.

    I can only tell you that when I read Saturday’s CNN report implicating Paterno in keeping the lid on Sandusky’s activities, I was not in the slightest surprised. I’ve suspected as much for almost two years. I did not print my full sentiments in the interest of fairness.......

    In covering the man and his football program for 21 seasons, the single most dominant thread is this: his ambition and drive. He would allow nothing and no one to disparage the institution he had built without some form of retribution. And he had complete power over his domain...........

    We don’t know the totality of what the Freeh investigation will uncover. I would just ask those who cannot get their minds around the concept of Joe Paterno acting in self-interest — acting to preserve his institution rather than individuals — to prepare themselves to have their bedtime story disrupted. You don’t get to be as powerful as this man was by sitting idly by and allowing others to call shots.

    More at link....


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  22. #72
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    This article shows the severe problem with PA's Code § 42.42. Suspected Child Abuse—Mandated Reporting Requirements.
    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...l_at_penn.html

    Mandated reporters should be required to report those suspected of child abuse directly to LE or face jail time. Requiring that they only report the suspected behavior to their superiors is fatally flawed. Some "superiors" will refuse to contact LE and others will refuse to immediately contact LE.

    I am referring to the incidents at Central Mountain High School (as it is still unclear if PSU's officials fall under the mandated reporter law.) One CMHS coach strongly suspected Jerry was a pedophile after seeing his clingy behavior and witnessing him lying next to a child on a wrestling mat, but he didn't call LE. The guidance counselor at CMHS did nothing after she was told except "gossip" with the principal about the boy, IMO. CMHS's principal was told about Jerry's crimes and she scolded the victim and his mother and told them to go home to think about what they were doing to good ol' Jerry.

    It's still unclear whether PSU officials and McQueary were mandated reporters. (Oh lawdy, don’t jump on me. Everyone should have demanded justice for the little boys regardless of whether they were a mandated reporter or not. I am just pointing out the flaws in PA's code. Knowing jail time would await them for failing to report MIGHT have altered their behavior. Notice that I used the word "might".)

    Bev Mackereth of Pennsylvania's Office of Children, Youth and Families declined to comment on whether that would cover the Penn State officials embroiled in the scandal.
    "The interpretation of who is and isn't (a mandated reporter) really belongs in the court," she said.
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...nd-jury-report

    Bev Mackereth is the Director of the York County Department of Human Services. She has also served eight years as the Pennsylvania State Representative for the 196th District.
    Last edited by Pensfan; 07-01-2012 at 07:36 PM.


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  24. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    David Jones: Joe Paterno fans must accept that he was flawed
    Somehow, I don't think "flawed" is the word I'd choose.


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  26. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    I will wait for actual evidence regarding Paterno and 1998. He was not in on the e-mails, so that could include Curley, Schultz, and Spanier, but not Paterno.
    Now why did I know that would be your response, J. J.? lol

    Wasn't trying to change anyone's mind, just stating where I am coming from with what we know now....


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  28. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMSHood View Post
    Even with Sandusky convicted, it gets worse and worse for Penn State. It is obvious they knew what was going on, but they ignored it. Turned the other cheek mentality. What happened at Penn State is reminds me what happened with Soviet Union, Axis, Khmer Rouge, Maoist China, Rwanda, Uganda, and South Hadley. People knew what was going on, but no action was taken.
    you forgot an example. maybe the closest one.

    nazie germany.

    its the same. "cult of the individual" mentality" with pretty much the same outcome. the big difference (and its a huge one, thankfully, for penn state) is that in germany pretty much everyone was involved.

    in happy valley, the participants were limited to, what, ten, twenty, a hundred at most.

    other than that, its the same phenomena...absoulte power corrupts absolutely.

    one man gets power, wins a lot, consolidates that power, is lionized as a god, and has a massive moral failure. he covers it up, because he can. for a time.

    in the end, though, he cant. everything unravels. he brings it all down.

    its a tragedy. literally.

    if you dont believe that, just go to the penn state boards, he is STILL being defended there by well over half the posters. they STILL can't believe it.

    and they defend him by saying, "hes dead. he cant defend himself."

    well, so what. Hitlers dead too.

    dont get me wrong. im not sayin joepa is comparable to hitler. Im saying what happened at penn state is a lot like what happened in germany.


    one man rule.
    IF I PUT IT HERE ITS MY OPINION. apparently i have no idea when i need to say that in a post, so this should cover it....IN MY OPINION anyways,

    welcome to the gates of hell JVDS.




    Jose Baez: “I sincerely believe that when we have finally spoken, everyone, and I mean everyone, will sit back and say, ‘Now, I understand. That explains it.’”



    Jose Baez to da judge :

    ".....that type of testing is unique. we requested that they be allowed to test items and that of course was objected to by the state and and uh the state uh granted or sustained their objection, denied our opportunity to have him test these items due to a very specialized field, subfield, of dna that he is one of the pioneers of uh in the alternative of we were granted the ability to test certain items by an outside lab...."


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