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Thread: In Case You Missed It. . .2012 is a Great Year for the Truth in the JBR case

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    I don't think a pothead committed the crime---they'd be too mellow. There was no snow in the back. The house could have been cased beforehand, and the broken window discovered. There was also a light out on that side of the house. Experienced burglars have the MO down.
    are these experienced burglar drug people as well, or what?

    so experienced that they didn't steal anything?

    so stealthy that they didn't complete the kidnapping either?

    They are great at burglarizing without stealing, and bad at kidnapping though?
    ...Even though they are so great casing the house, they could obviously easily find an open door right off the kitchen, and get in and out undetected, but decide to leave her with all her stuff they added with her in the wine cellar scene, and not take her with them.. even though they still left the house themselves?

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    Yes.....I think a drug addict explains the rambling note...the idea for the crime....the extortion techno movies...the stun gun....the kidnapping gone bad. Depends on the drug as far as clarity of the mind. I'd say coke or meth. I've heard there's a sense of omnipotence while on it and some people can write all night on it.

    Only red fibers were found on JBR's body...funny the black ones wouldn't have transferred...but even if they were Patsy's, it could have been a simple transference.

    Not much has been said about the wolfhound dog hairs found on her body.
    Actually BOTH red and black fibers were found. This can be seen in the evidence lists on here:http://www.acandyrose.com
    And the hairs were not proven to be wolfhound hairs. Some sources identify them as beaver. Patsy had boots trimmed with beaver and - more telling- some artist's brushes are made with beaver fur. Patsy also owned fur coats - fur type not revealed. Had the DA wanted to, they could have gotten a warrant to test the hairs against the fur of the wolf-dog hybrid (it was not a wolfhound, which is a specific pure breed). One of the early suspects owned such a hybrid wolf-dog. His DNA, handwriting did not match and there was NO evidence linking him to the crime, so he was dismissed as a suspect early on.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  5. #53
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    A ransom note that tells you to not tell anyone else or they'll kill your daughter, then they invite everyone over..and one that tells you they will call at a certain time yet you are not by the phone when that call is to occur? These are things I recall about the case that had my hinky meter going way off the charts. Also I thought they used a nickname of somesort that only members of the family would know???

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  7. #54
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    another thing that doesn't make sense to me....they sat down to read the note from start to finish (they both admit to NOT reading the entire note before calling LE) and analyze it after the cops arrived.....wouldn't you read it carefully BEFORE making any decisions(stupid ones maybe ,that threaten your childs life?)?what if the note says "hey,there's a bomb going of if you pick up your phone"...this hasty decision to call LE without sitting down for a minute doesn't sound like JR,really.especially if after reading a few lines he got the impression that it was an inside job.

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  9. #55
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    I would definately have read the note from start to finish just in case there were some special instructions that would keep my child alive, I would not want to take a chance that I missed an important detail of some sort.

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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetT View Post
    I would definately have read the note from start to finish just in case there were some special instructions that would keep my child alive, I would not want to take a chance that I missed an important detail of some sort.
    Just keep one thing in mind...they really didn't need to read the note because they WROTE the note. The note is a fake, so anything that might apply to a REAL kidnapping (one where someone other than a parent actually TAKES the child away) does not apply here.
    The "instructions" in the note about "if you call police, talk to anyone etc she DIES" were written by people who knew the victim was ALREADY dead. The note was worded that way, with threats of killing her, because it was an excellent way to provide a reason for her death- they DID call police ad DID tell people - so the "kidnappers" killed her. How else would they have explained a dead child (THEIR child) in their own basement with a rope around her neck and half her skull cracked open (though this injury was not visible).
    Calling this a "kidnapping" was the only thing they could do at this point. Because of her vaginal injuries, they couldn't say it was an accident. When the vaginal injuries were discovered, it would point back to someone who was home with her that night, so they had to blame it on an intruder. It really is as simple as that.
    One of the forensic specialists that studied this case said that if this child had been brought to an emergency room, the father would have been arrested after she had been examined and the vaginal trauma and eroded hymen was found.
    AND- when they discovered that skull fracture during the autopsy, there might have been further arrests.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Just keep one thing in mind...they really didn't need to read the note because they WROTE the note. The note is a fake, so anything that might apply to a REAL kidnapping (one where someone other than a parent actually TAKES the child away) does not apply here.
    The "instructions" in the note about "if you call police, talk to anyone etc she DIES" were written by people who knew the victim was ALREADY dead. The note was worded that way, with threats of killing her, because it was an excellent way to provide a reason for her death- they DID call police ad DID tell people - so the "kidnappers" killed her. How else would they have explained a dead child (THEIR child) in their own basement with a rope around her neck and half her skull cracked open (though this injury was not visible).
    Calling this a "kidnapping" was the only thing they could do at this point. Because of her vaginal injuries, they couldn't say it was an accident. When the vaginal injuries were discovered, it would point back to someone who was home with her that night, so they had to blame it on an intruder. It really is as simple as that.
    One of the forensic specialists that studied this case said that if this child had been brought to an emergency room, the father would have been arrested after she had been examined and the vaginal trauma and eroded hymen was found.
    AND- when they discovered that skull fracture during the autopsy, there might have been further arrests.

    I agree the Rs wrote the RN, but think how very strange this is. If the death threats provide a "reason" for her being killed, as you suggest, how would that play out had the police conducted a good search? Had the body been discovered by officer French for example, it would be obvious that she wasn't killed in response to the police or friends being called.

    If the death threats were intended as "reasons" then the Rs had to assume the body wouldn't be found. Otherwise it makes no sense. (Not that much about the RN makes sense anyway)

    How were they going to explain the reappearance of the body? Did they think the house would not be watched?
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

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  15. #58
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    Can you just tell us a date or exactly who killed her or if its rdi or idi?

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  17. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope View Post
    I agree the Rs wrote the RN, but think how very strange this is. If the death threats provide a "reason" for her being killed, as you suggest, how would that play out had the police conducted a good search? Had the body been discovered by officer French for example, it would be obvious that she wasn't killed in response to the police or friends being called.

    If the death threats were intended as "reasons" then the Rs had to assume the body wouldn't be found. Otherwise it makes no sense. (Not that much about the RN makes sense anyway)

    How were they going to explain the reappearance of the body? Did they think the house would not be watched?
    We'll never know what would have happened if French had actually figured out how to open the wineceller door. If she was originally further back into the darker recesses of that L-shaped room, he may not have seen her, just as FW didn't see her when he looked around that same time. There has long been speculation that JR may have snuck back down and moved her body closer to the doorway after realizing that no one else was going to find her.
    And I disagree that the Rs wouldn't have claimed she'd been killed in retaliation for calling police, even if French had found her. They could still have said it- it wouldn't be any less plausible than any other time.
    Their plan for finding her or having her delivered to the house dead do not make sense when we try to be logical about it, but in the adrenalin -filled moment of that horrible night, who knows what they though would be believed? After all, they expected it to be believed that kidnappers came into the house with NO forced entry at a time when the parents were home and likely to still be up and about (midnight on Christmas Day is not an unusual time for busy parents to still be up). They expected to be believed that this intruder(s) took JB from her room with her brother right down the hall, fed her pineapple as they sat nearby, molested her, made her scream and didn't worry about whether the parents would hear it, bashed her on the head, took her to the basement, made the garrote, strangled her, changed her panties, coincidentally finding the blanket from her very own bed in the basement dryer to wrap her in (why?) and took the time to write a 3-page ransom note in Patsy's handwriting and linguistics, and that it was all done (in perfect American English) by some foreigners (affiliation unknown and unsaid) who then climbed UP a wall out a window, while not breaking a spider web on the heavy metal grate, which they then put back in place without being heard or seen. All the while while the parents were not only home, but very likely awake.
    So....any story they would have tried to tell about how she was returned to them seems less unbelievable than what I have just said.
    They might have said someone rang the bell and when they opened the door there she was. Again, we'll never know.
    Actually, they have never said that they thought JB was killed by people who had a problem with JR's business. They have only said it was an "inside job". Actually, that part is the truth. It was.
    The problem with the RN is that it tries to throw the blame in so many different directions that it fails to make ANY of it seem plausible.
    As for whether they though the house would be watched by police (I assume)- they may NOT have thought about it. They would have thought that since she was kidnapped, police would be turning their investigations AWAY from the home.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  19. #60
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    We'll never know what would have happened if French had actually figured out how to open the wineceller door. If she was originally further back into the darker recesses of that L-shaped room, he may not have seen her, just as FW didn't see her when he looked around that same time. There has long been speculation that JR may have snuck back down and moved her body closer to the doorway after realizing that no one else was going to find her.
    And I disagree that the Rs wouldn't have claimed she'd been killed in retaliation for calling police, even if French had found her. They could still have said it- it wouldn't be any less plausible than any other time.
    Their plan for finding her or having her delivered to the house dead do not make sense when we try to be logical about it, but in the adrenalin -filled moment of that horrible night, who knows what they though would be believed? After all, they expected it to be believed that kidnappers came into the house with NO forced entry at a time when the parents were home and likely to still be up and about (midnight on Christmas Day is not an unusual time for busy parents to still be up). They expected to be believed that this intruder(s) took JB from her room with her brother right down the hall, fed her pineapple as they sat nearby, molested her, made her scream and didn't worry about whether the parents would hear it, bashed her on the head, took her to the basement, made the garrote, strangled her, changed her panties, coincidentally finding the blanket from her very own bed in the basement dryer to wrap her in (why?) and took the time to write a 3-page ransom note in Patsy's handwriting and linguistics, and that it was all done (in perfect American English) by some foreigners (affiliation unknown and unsaid) who then climbed UP a wall out a window, while not breaking a spider web on the heavy metal grate, which they then put back in place without being heard or seen. All the while while the parents were not only home, but very likely awake.
    So....any story they would have tried to tell about how she was returned to them seems less unbelievable than what I have just said.
    They might have said someone rang the bell and when they opened the door there she was. Again, we'll never know.
    Actually, they have never said that they thought JB was killed by people who had a problem with JR's business. They have only said it was an "inside job". Actually, that part is the truth. It was.
    The problem with the RN is that it tries to throw the blame in so many different directions that it fails to make ANY of it seem plausible.
    As for whether they though the house would be watched by police (I assume)- they may NOT have thought about it. They would have thought that since she was kidnapped, police would be turning their investigations AWAY from the home.
    DeeDee249,
    Speculation about the contents of the RN is pointless. The purpose of the RN and the Abduction Scenario was to simply buy the R's time, enough to fly out Colardo, interstate. To evade the justice they assumed would arrive once JonBenet was discovered, and they had no illusions about this, they expected her to be found, the best they could hope for was time enough for the house as a crime-scene to be trashed and them to arrange a flight out of Boulder.

    They were intent on leaving Colorado ASAP, if necessary without reporting any return of JonBenet's body.

    If JonBenet had been found dead say in her own bed, staged as the victim of an intruder, all the R's would have arrested on the spot!

    So the purpose of the wine-cellar is to purchase time and to act as a spoiler as regards forensic evidence, the R's like you or me could not predict the future, so they never realized it would have to be JR who would discover JonBenet, and not a member of the police. In the end due to the ineptitude of the police and the legal steps taken by Team Ramsey, they never had to face a court of law.


    .

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  23. #62
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  25. #63
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    I just read this on the main page:

    JOIN US ON WEDNESDAY JULY 18TH FOR A VERY SPECIAL WEBSLEUTHS RADIO. FINALLY THE DEEP DOWN TRUTH ABOUT THE JONBENET RAMSEY CASE. THIS WILL BLOW THE LID OFF THE INVESTIGATION AND SHOW THE WORLD HOW THE MEDIA HAS BEEN MANIPULATED IN THE JONBENET RAMSEY CASE.

    then came here to find out we will be in the know Tuesday July 17...dun...dun...dun!!
    "IT TAKES A LOT BIGGER MAN TO STAND UP AND ADMIT HIS MISTAKES THAN TO HIDE BEHIND A LIE"
    WHY WON'T ANYONE STAND UP FOR HALEIGH??!! WHY?? TELL THE TRUTH!!
    HALEIGH DESERVES IT!!

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  27. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    I just read this on the main page:

    JOIN US ON WEDNESDAY JULY 18TH FOR A VERY SPECIAL WEBSLEUTHS RADIO. FINALLY THE DEEP DOWN TRUTH ABOUT THE JONBENET RAMSEY CASE. THIS WILL BLOW THE LID OFF THE INVESTIGATION AND SHOW THE WORLD HOW THE MEDIA HAS BEEN MANIPULATED IN THE JONBENET RAMSEY CASE.

    then came here to find out we will be in the know Tuesday July 17...dun...dun...dun!!
    Yes you will know Tuesday and on Wednesday I'll have the radio show. Just can't tell you any more than that.

    I'M SO EXCITED. OMG . . .
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  29. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    DeeDee249,
    Speculation about the contents of the RN is pointless. The purpose of the RN and the Abduction Scenario was to simply buy the R's time, enough to fly out Colardo, interstate. To evade the justice they assumed would arrive once JonBenet was discovered, and they had no illusions about this, they expected her to be found, the best they could hope for was time enough for the house as a crime-scene to be trashed and them to arrange a flight out of Boulder.

    They were intent on leaving Colorado ASAP, if necessary without reporting any return of JonBenet's body.

    If JonBenet had been found dead say in her own bed, staged as the victim of an intruder, all the R's would have arrested on the spot!

    So the purpose of the wine-cellar is to purchase time and to act as a spoiler as regards forensic evidence, the R's like you or me could not predict the future, so they never realized it would have to be JR who would discover JonBenet, and not a member of the police. In the end due to the ineptitude of the police and the legal steps taken by Team Ramsey, they never had to face a court of law.


    .
    The Rs alleged flight out of the country is also speculation. There is no proof they were planning to go into hiding.- on the contrary, they were VERY public with the televised funeral and TV appearances. JR WAS allegedly overheard telling his pilot to prepare for a flight to Atlanta when LE informed him he was not allowed to leave. Could he have been planning to leave the country? Possibly, but not that day. He would have waited till his remaining family (Patsy, BR and himself) were in Atlanta and after JB was buried. Would Patsy have left her parents and sisters? Doubt it. Doubt they'd have fled the country. Didn't need to, really. Their lawyers have kept them safe from prosecution, aided by the corrupt DA (then and now) so there was really no need to flee anywhere.
    People with that much money and powerful friends can flee when they want to. They don't usually run for public office in the country they plan to leave. as JR did.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  31. #66
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    What is the general consensus among the group about what this new info could be?

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  33. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    We'll never know what would have happened if French had actually figured out how to open the wineceller door. If she was originally further back into the darker recesses of that L-shaped room, he may not have seen her, just as FW didn't see her when he looked around that same time. There has long been speculation that JR may have snuck back down and moved her body closer to the doorway after realizing that no one else was going to find her.
    And I disagree that the Rs wouldn't have claimed she'd been killed in retaliation for calling police, even if French had found her. They could still have said it- it wouldn't be any less plausible than any other time.
    Their plan for finding her or having her delivered to the house dead do not make sense when we try to be logical about it, but in the adrenalin -filled moment of that horrible night, who knows what they though would be believed? After all, they expected it to be believed that kidnappers came into the house with NO forced entry at a time when the parents were home and likely to still be up and about (midnight on Christmas Day is not an unusual time for busy parents to still be up). They expected to be believed that this intruder(s) took JB from her room with her brother right down the hall, fed her pineapple as they sat nearby, molested her, made her scream and didn't worry about whether the parents would hear it, bashed her on the head, took her to the basement, made the garrote, strangled her, changed her panties, coincidentally finding the blanket from her very own bed in the basement dryer to wrap her in (why?) and took the time to write a 3-page ransom note in Patsy's handwriting and linguistics, and that it was all done (in perfect American English) by some foreigners (affiliation unknown and unsaid) who then climbed UP a wall out a window, while not breaking a spider web on the heavy metal grate, which they then put back in place without being heard or seen. All the while while the parents were not only home, but very likely awake.
    So....any story they would have tried to tell about how she was returned to them seems less unbelievable than what I have just said.
    They might have said someone rang the bell and when they opened the door there she was. Again, we'll never know.
    Actually, they have never said that they thought JB was killed by people who had a problem with JR's business. They have only said it was an "inside job". Actually, that part is the truth. It was.
    The problem with the RN is that it tries to throw the blame in so many different directions that it fails to make ANY of it seem plausible.
    As for whether they though the house would be watched by police (I assume)- they may NOT have thought about it. They would have thought that since she was kidnapped, police would be turning their investigations AWAY from the home.
    And I disagree that the Rs wouldn't have claimed she'd been killed in retaliation for calling police, even if French had found her. They could still have said it- it wouldn't be any less plausible than any other time.
    It would be more plausible if the police had left and they moved the body to say outside the back door. To say she was killed in retaliation for calling police/friends at 6am -then have the body found at say 6:20 -that's a lie even the Rs couldn't get away with. I doubt even Alex Hunter would buy that story. (Mary Lacy, yes).

    That leads me to wonder if the Rs actually thought the police would leave after the ransom call failed to come in. Then the plan was to move the body and make another call to the police? The second call would inform police that the body had been dumped on the front door/back door/garage door, whatever. Just speculation, but even the Rs are bound by some minimally plausible scenario. Finding her body 20 or 30 minutes after the 911 call and claiming the kidnappers not only killed her in retaliation for calling the police, but managed to sneak the body back into the house and down to the WC while the police were present is a whopper not even the Rs could tell. Just makes no sense at all. Not even minimally.

    They might have said someone rang the bell and when they opened the door there she was.
    But this is only possible if the cops had left the premises. If officer French had found her at say 6:15 in the wine cellar, they couldn't claim she'd been dumped on the front stoop.

    If the RN wording relating to killing her in retaliation for calling police was meant to explain her death, there would have had to be the expectation, or at least the hope, that police would leave the Rs alone after a few hours.

    My speculation is that this was part of the plan, but was abandoned after it became obvious police were never going to leave. As far as I'm aware the Rs never did try to claim she was killed in retaliation for calling the cops. They simply hoped that everyone would believe the intruder did it - leading to the absurd "kidnapping gone bad" scenario.

    Why in the hell the Rs were not arrested I will never know.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

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  35. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post
    Yes you will know Tuesday and on Wednesday I'll have the radio show. Just can't tell you any more than that.

    I'M SO EXCITED. OMG . . .

    I assume there will be a link to the show? I will not be able to listen to it "live". I'll have to listen later.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

  36. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    DeeDee249,
    Speculation about the contents of the RN is pointless. The purpose of the RN and the Abduction Scenario was to simply buy the R's time, enough to fly out Colardo, interstate. To evade the justice they assumed would arrive once JonBenet was discovered, and they had no illusions about this, they expected her to be found, the best they could hope for was time enough for the house as a crime-scene to be trashed and them to arrange a flight out of Boulder.

    They were intent on leaving Colorado ASAP, if necessary without reporting any return of JonBenet's body.

    If JonBenet had been found dead say in her own bed, staged as the victim of an intruder, all the R's would have arrested on the spot!

    So the purpose of the wine-cellar is to purchase time and to act as a spoiler as regards forensic evidence, the R's like you or me could not predict the future, so they never realized it would have to be JR who would discover JonBenet, and not a member of the police. In the end due to the ineptitude of the police and the legal steps taken by Team Ramsey, they never had to face a court of law.
    .
    If I have the time line straight in my head, the phone conversation in which JR asks his pilot to ready the plane to go to Atlanta happens about 1/2 hour after the body is "found".

    So one question is this - was the trip part of the overall plan, prior to the 911 call? Or was it developed later ?

    Flying to another state, as their final destination, would have been useless as any state would extradite them.

    Many other countries would also have extradited, though some would refuse due to CO having the death penalty. Perhaps some agreement to waive the DP would have gotten them extradited. They did not enjoy French citizenship, so could not count on that as Roman Polanski did.

    Really there was nowhere to run. Yet, it's the case that JR tried to arrange a flight. I think it was an ad hoc plan, formulated after "finding" the body. A half hour later he found himself still in his own home, still not in handcuffs, still not under arrest, still not having been read his Miranda rights .... this must have been the biggest shock of the day. When he realized he wasn't going to be arrested -at least not that day, he may have reasoned Atlanta would buy everyone a few days to get their story straight, get the lawyers working, and avoid be questioned "downtown" where someone might breakdown and tell all.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

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  38. #70
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    In preparation for tuesday I ask, why 16 years later? And more importantly....
    Will this require a response from the Ramsey Team or John Ramsey?

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  40. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    29
    Thanks for the day. What time Tuesday? Midnight or when people wake up?

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  42. #72
    Join Date
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    "The truth is on the march and nothing will stop it" Emile Zola
    Posts
    15,856
    I don't know. I will let you know as soon as possible.
    `````````````````

    JOIN US EVERY THURSDAY NIGHT FOR TRUE CRIME RADIO ON IHEART. CLICK HERE THURSDAYS 8 PM EASTERN FOR THE LINK TO THE SHOW, TO JOIN OUR NEW CHATROOM, AND FOR SHOW ARCHIVES! DON'T FORGET CHAT OPENS THURSDAYS 7:30 EASTERN



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    ************************************************** **************************************

    Tricia Griffith
    triciastruecrimeradio@gmail.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098

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  44. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    "The truth is on the march and nothing will stop it" Emile Zola
    Posts
    15,856
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderllama View Post
    In preparation for tuesday I ask, why 16 years later? And more importantly....
    Will this require a response from the Ramsey Team or John Ramsey?
    All your questions will be answered soon.
    `````````````````

    JOIN US EVERY THURSDAY NIGHT FOR TRUE CRIME RADIO ON IHEART. CLICK HERE THURSDAYS 8 PM EASTERN FOR THE LINK TO THE SHOW, TO JOIN OUR NEW CHATROOM, AND FOR SHOW ARCHIVES! DON'T FORGET CHAT OPENS THURSDAYS 7:30 EASTERN



    Join Websleuths on Twitter



    And Face Book of course
    |





    ************************************************** **************************************

    Tricia Griffith
    triciastruecrimeradio@gmail.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098

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  46. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    646
    Oh you!!!!!!

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  48. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    I will be looking forward to it Tricia.
    The discovery of additional matching DNA in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case is important information that raises more questions in the search for JonBenet's killer. The BPD concurs with the Boulder District Attorney's Office that this is a significant finding. The PD has continued to look diligently for the source of the foreign DNA, and to date, we have compared DNA samples taken from more than 200 people. Finding the source of the DNA is key to helping us determine who killed JonBenet

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