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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy Road View Post
    Nova, I'm kinda thinking the way you are thinking. I can't say what the woman saw, but I agree that the term "guardian" doesn't seem to fit at first thought. I do believe in the afterlife, and I do believe there are angels who are among us. Maybe what she saw were angels who were there to help the dead to the other side? Who knows for sure. Interesting stuff though - if you believe.
    The angels have vast activities. In Heaven they act to glorify God and on earth they act to carry out God’s orders.

    Angels are messengers of good news 
e.g., the appearance of angels to the shepherds in bethlehem and to St.Mary.

    Angels can act to save people.
 In the corrupt city of Sodom there lived a man of God, Lot. When Sodom was doomed to destruction, God sent two angels to save Lot and his family (Gen. 19:1-22).

    Angels are executors of God’s judgments. 
King David, otherwise a great glorifier of God, sinned once against the Lord God, and God sent an angel with a drawn sword in his hand – and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men, until David repented and cried to God for mercy (I Chron. 21:1-17).
    “Bless the Lord, he His angels, mighty in strength, that perform His word, to hear the voice of His words “(Ps. 103:20).

    Angels are intercessors (those who pray for you). Just as you can ask for the prayers of Saints, you can also ask for the intercession of Angels.

    Angels can also be ministering spirits. “Are they not all ministering spirits sent for service, for the sake of those who shall inherit salvation” (Hebrews 1:14)

    Angels can also act as guardians. “He commands His angels regarding you to guard you in all your paths … The angel of the Lord encamps all around those who fear Him, and delivers them” (Psalm 91:11, 34:7) While blessing his grandchildren, Jacob said to Joseph:
 “The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, she'll bless the lads.”–Genesis 48:16

    I think the ex-FBI agent saw angels that may have been sent to minister/provide comfort to those on the plane and to their grieving loved ones.


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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I think that under the circumstances, the term should have been qualified when used in the article. But that's not something you or I can control.

    I hope the mods will indulge me, because this is a serious question, not an attempt to start an argument about religion.

    Kimberly, what does the guardian angel do during our lifetimes, in your view? Please feel free to PM me if you think we are getting into a problematic area here. I am genuinely interested in your opinion on this. (And I suspect I have some similar ideas, FWIW.)
    I'm not Kimberly, but I thought you might find these explanations helpful.
    http://www.antiochian.org/node/18443
    Amazon.com: Holy Angels (9780932506108): Mother Alexandra: Books
    http://www.orthotracts.org/new/evang...s-in-orthodoxy
    http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/angels.htm


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  5. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
    In my view they are there with you for every step and every breath.
    They are there to guide you, comfort you, and if it's God's will, protect you.

    Personal story that is going on right now in my life.

    My 37 year old BIL is at the end stage of colorectal cancer. He was diagnosed Feb 2011.

    We were just told today that there is nothing else they can do for him. They are sending him home with palliative care to die.

    It is my belief, that his guardian angel that has been with him since he was conceived will continue to be with him through the next awful couple of weeks.
    I believe his guardian angel was with him at diagnosis, through chemo, through surgeries, through his pain. And he will not be alone when he passes.
    He will be guided Home and delivered into Jesus' loving arms.

    His wife's guardian angel will help her to be strong. Will comfort her.

    His children's guardian angels will do the same.

    Now, I realize that if you are not a believer, this sounds odd.

    Although they can not be proven through science, those that believe KNOW they are there.

    That's why we get a little offended when we are laughed at or considered crazy.

    Science is not the only truth in the world IMO.

    That's what Faith is. Believing even though we can't see it.

    JMO and sorry for rambling.
    Thank you very much, Kimberly. I hope you don't think *I* ever called you crazy.

    I think I understand what you mean. In fact, I'm a big fan of Jane Roberts' books; she describes something she calls an "oversoul" which functions similarly, but isn't based in Christian terms. To Roberts, the oversoul is a spiritual entity that manifests itself in various times and places (which when viewed chronologically we call reincarnation); we are each of us both a part of our oversoul and also individually ourselves.

    But the oversoul performs the same functions you ascribe to a guardian angel: comfort, guidance and spiritual companionship (sorry, that last term is so inadequate, but I trust you know what I mean). Since every soul creates its own reality, the oversoul doesn't dictate actions, but one might say it "collaborates".

    And I should probably stop there. I'm sure I've tried the patience of mods more than enough. But thank you for your response, which was very clear.

    Bottom line: speaking for myself, I wouldn't use the term "guardian" to describe angels at the scene of a plane crash. There's got to be a better way to put that. But I do understand how an angel may aid someone without actually shielding him/her from physical harm.


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  7. #94
    Coming late to the discussion, but I wonder if, in our modern-day lexicon, it's a little hard to say "angel" without saying "guardian". We hear the words together so much it's almost like one would expect to see them written with a hyphen: "guardian-angel". The "guardian" part, to me, carries with it the idea of personal/individualized, so that may be why people tack that word on oftentimes, more or less automatically....there is an implication there that is comforting to many.

    I don't mind my beliefs that have not been proven in a scientific laboratory being thought of as magical. Magical is good until it hurts others and then that becomes oppression.


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  9. #95
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    From one of my all time favorite movies, Signs. I know it's just a movie, but it does contain some elements that might make it easier to see why some things happen the way they do, ...just sayin.

    One of my favorite scenes...

    Graham has a conversation with Merrill about his own faith. It's revealed that Graham no longer believes in God following the accident. He then says that there are "two kinds of people: those who see signs, miracles, and those who see coincidences. Which kind are you?" When Merrill asks him the same question, Graham does not answer.
    "I bear the chain I forged in life...I made it of my own free will and of my own free will I wore it....your chain was fully as long as this seven Christmas Eve's ago - and you have labored on it since." Jacob Marley

    MURDERER'S! You know g**damn well what happened to your kid so stop playing the victim and just confess you lying murdering liars! - Mr. Chris Stotch - South Park


    All posts are my opinion only.


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  11. #96
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    Gabriel Garcia Marquez's short story A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings


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  13. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by waitin'4thewrld2chg View Post
    Coming late to the discussion, but I wonder if, in our modern-day lexicon, it's a little hard to say "angel" without saying "guardian". We hear the words together so much it's almost like one would expect to see them written with a hyphen: "guardian-angel". The "guardian" part, to me, carries with it the idea of personal/individualized, so that may be why people tack that word on oftentimes, more or less automatically....there is an implication there that is comforting to many.

    I don't mind my beliefs that have not been proven in a scientific laboratory being thought of as magical. Magical is good until it hurts others and then that becomes oppression.
    Beautifully put and I agree 100%. (Apparently, you didn't need to come to class until the last day. LOL)


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  15. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    Gabriel Garcia Marquez's short story A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings
    Meant to quote the first paragraph of the story; here it is:

    On the third day of rain they had killed so many crabs inside the house that Pelayo had to cross his drenched courtyard and throw them into the sea, because the newborn child had a temperature all night and they thought it was due to the stench. The world had been sad since Tuesday. Sea and sky were a single ash-gray thing and the sands of the beach, which on March nights glimmered like powdered light, had become a stew of mud and rotten shellfish. The light was so weak at noon that when Pelayo was coming back to the house after throwing away the crabs, it was hard for him to see what it was that was moving and groaning in the rear of the courtyard. He had to go very close to see that it was an old man, a very old man, lying face down in the mud, who, in spite of his tremendous efforts, couldn't get up, impeded by his enormous wings.


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  17. #99
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    What if the angels were simply taking them home........guiding them ......

    What if those people were supposed to die that day? Their actions saved untold others....

    Their paths may have already been chosen.

    Something to think about.

    Since stories of angels have been told throughout history, I believe there is SOMETHING to them.

    And yes, I want to believe .....
    [/I]


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  19. #100
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    I have magical beliefs. What a horrible, depressing thought to go a day without that magic, that personal belief system that helps to put this sometimes terrible world into perspective.

    I admit that some of my beliefs are magical, and I admit that some of those magical beliefs are nothing more than coping mechanisms. Is that what this agent saw, a coping mechanism manifested? Maybe.

    To me, as I said in my earlier post, it doesn't matter to me whether she saw angels or not. If she believes she saw angels, I am in no position to question that belief.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.


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  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollyblue View Post
    Did she try taking any pics with her cell phone? Why...not?
    I imagine most cell phones in 2001 did not have cameras.


  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah1012 View Post
    I imagine most cell phones in 2001 did not have cameras.
    I think you are right.

    And speaking only for myself, I wouldn't assume the woman was hallucinating even if a camera was unable to capture her vision. Although there are reputed exceptions, I'm not sure our machines are built to capture the sort of energy out of which an "angel" would be made.


  23. #103
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    Look at the comparison of how just 2 different sites posted their versions of something else Leonardi said in her book...

    http://angelmeadow.com/?p=1393
    Snipped:
    Along with the angels, however, Leonardi said that a Bible was lying in the middle of the group of angels, seen also by two other men. While she watched, she states: “All of a sudden this huge wind came out of nowhere and flipped that Bible open, and I remember it flipped open to Psalm 23, “The Lord is my shepherd…”

    http://m.christianpost.com/news/lill...-video--77687/
    Snipped:
    Also at the scene was a Bible buried in the wreckage that was somehow preserved from damage, Leonardi noted. "All of a sudden this huge wind came out of nowhere and flipped that Bible open and I remember it flipped open to Psalm 23, 'The Lord is my shepherd…'"


  24. #104
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    Re cell phone cameras...

    I found this at pcworld:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/13145...ll_phones.html
    Snipped:
    (photo at link)
    Photo Opp: Sanyo SCP-5300 (2002)
    Today, most cell phones come with a built-in camera. But, just a few years ago, a camera phone was hard to come by. In 2002, Sanyo and Sprint debuted the Sanyo SCP-5300 PCS phone, which they claimed was the first mobile phone available in America with a built-in camera. (A camera phone from Sharp had been available in Japan for a few years.) At its highest resolution, it captured VGA (640 by 480) images--a far cry from today's 5-megapixel camera phones like the Nokia N95.


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  26. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey*Girl View Post
    Look at the comparison of how just 2 different sites posted their versions of something else Leonardi said in her book...

    http://angelmeadow.com/?p=1393
    Snipped:
    Along with the angels, however, Leonardi said that a Bible was lying in the middle of the group of angels, seen also by two other men. While she watched, she states: “All of a sudden this huge wind came out of nowhere and flipped that Bible open, and I remember it flipped open to Psalm 23, “The Lord is my shepherd…”

    http://m.christianpost.com/news/lill...-video--77687/
    Snipped:
    Also at the scene was a Bible buried in the wreckage that was somehow preserved from damage, Leonardi noted. "All of a sudden this huge wind came out of nowhere and flipped that Bible open and I remember it flipped open to Psalm 23, 'The Lord is my shepherd…'"
    I think this can be filed under coincidence. Under those circumstances, any of us might notice and be touched by the sight of a lone Bible. It wouldn't surprise me if one of the passengers had the book open in his or her lap.


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