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Thread: Australia: The murder of Corryn Rayney

  1. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
    Whilst the Defence is going on and ON about conspiracy theories eg: police with an agenda etc. and new found ways of distinguishing scientific examples of evidence albeit innovative or NEW in the line of science..........AT THE END OF THE DAY.....
    IMO.... THEY are not displaying or arguing a relative reason or explanation as to how and why the RESULTS could be OTHERWISE....!!!!
    (and we know they really don't have to, per say....)
    They are not giving a good enough reason to create a 'Beyond reasonable doubt' scenario, as an objective.
    It's almost like 'schoolyard squabbles'.......
    I know that this is a 'Judge Only' court case HOWEVER, given what has transpired thus far, IF I was on a Jury, the Defence would be struggling to convince me that I should consider 'doubt' as an option of consideration.

    AM I ALONE ON THIS???....
    Agree Zoro, after reading this article this morning

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226451033587

    Methinks the defence doth protest too much me Lord



    JMO MOO
    Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
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  3. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
    Whilst the Defence is going on and ON about conspiracy theories eg: police with an agenda etc. and new found ways of distinguishing scientific examples of evidence albeit innovative or NEW in the line of science..........AT THE END OF THE DAY.....
    IMO.... THEY are not displaying or arguing a relative reason or explanation as to how and why the RESULTS could be OTHERWISE....!!!!
    (and we know they really don't have to, per say....)
    They are not giving a good enough reason to create a 'Beyond reasonable doubt' scenario, as an objective.
    It's almost like 'schoolyard squabbles'.......
    I know that this is a 'Judge Only' court case HOWEVER, given what has transpired thus far, IF I was on a Jury, the Defence would be struggling to convince me that I should consider 'doubt' as an option of consideration.

    AM I ALONE ON THIS???....
    I am with you on this Zoro. I find it incredibly frustrating to be honest. LR is not roaring from the rooftops "I'm innocent, I didn't do it" but rather being a smug shite trying to discredit any shred of evidence that is brought forward.

    To be honest this toing and froing is driving me bonkers. I realise that analysing every detail is completely necessary, but LR's demeanor is of a man who has this case beat already. I have already likened this case to that of OJ Simpson, and it saddens me that such an accomplished woman will not get the justice she deserves.

    Mouse Detective - I have always thought that it was highly plausible that LR arranged for someone else to kill his wife. If I'm honest in my opinion LR doesn't look like a man who would get his hands dirty. I think he looks so smug because he knows the police are barking up the wrong tree.
    As for murdering Corryn elsewhere, I think that LR had a small window of time to work with and luring Corryn to an obscure address/region/area would have made an intelligent woman like Corryn suspicious. I think even if an accomplice was involved they had to work with what they had.

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  5. #553
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    I thought Zoro was saying the case is leaning in favour of the prosecutors?

    I have faith Brian Martin will make the right decision. He knows his stuff and puts a stop quickly to the defence/prosectution explaining things that he's already aware of. He said the case is expected to last weeks more from now

    I don't look into LR smugness. It's just how he is, very emotionless, it's not like his going to act in any other way. If he was found guilty he would still be exactly the same. Although what's disturbing is the girls smiling. I supose it's better to look happy than depressed, and try to look like a normal family unit.

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  7. #554
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    [QUOTE=palmy;8271993]I thought Zoro was saying the case is leaning in favour of the prosecutors?

    I have faith Brian Martin will make the right decision. He knows his stuff and puts a stop quickly to the defence/prosectution explaining things that he's already aware of. He said the case is expected to last weeks more from now

    I don't look into LR smugness. It's just how he is, very emotionless, it's not like his going to act in any other way. If he was found guilty he would still be exactly the same.

    Couldn't agree more Palmy. I have faith too in Brian Martin. He will deal justly with the facts and evidence that are presented. LR is always emotionless. I found the smiling photos of him strange and staged ...just like the new clean shaven look!

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  9. #555
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    Hello everyone,
    my first post - but have been following you a while & appreciate your updates.
    (also followed the Baden-Clay case at first, not so much lately)
    I will have more time soon as semi-retirement is imminent (hurrah!)

    I live in Perth & hope to attend the court sometime soon - would be great to be there when he's sentenced...
    My heart goes out to Corryn's father & sister & of course her daughters... but why they find it necessary to grin from ear to ear as they walk beside LR is baffling... they will need lots of support when he's sentenced & perhaps that's when they'll turn to their Grandfather & Aunt.

    ~

    I'm a member at last!

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  11. #556
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    I've been thinking about the missing items.
    The car keys, for example. I bet my bottom dollar they are sitting on the bed of the swan river beneath the narrows bridge.
    There would have been other items.
    She would have had a drink bottle with her at dancing, I would imagine.
    Also did the bootscooting uniform have a hat? It often does.
    These items would hold the clue as to her movements after the class.

    I've also been thinking about the blood. No blood found on the driveway. But yes blood on the back seat of the car. Mode of death--head trauma/neck compression (strangling). Is it possible she would have only started bleeding once in the car? Any chance she was still alive (but unconscious) when buried?

    If the husband had an accomplice do the actual murder, the police are not barking up the wrong tree, just need to be barking up another tree as well...
    I can't imagine an accomplice would have backtracked to dump the car in kershaw st...that was LR's haunt, not the hangout space for underworld figures.

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  13. #557
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    Not to mention her handbag, wallet etc.
    Why would anyone else have gone to so much trouble hiding/disposing of such items?

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  15. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherries View Post
    Hello everyone,
    my first post - but have been following you a while & appreciate your updates.
    (also followed the Baden-Clay case at first, not so much lately)
    I will have more time soon as semi-retirement is imminent (hurrah!)

    I live in Perth & hope to attend the court sometime soon - would be great to be there when he's sentenced...
    My heart goes out to Corryn's father & sister & of course her daughters... but why they find it necessary to grin from ear to ear as they walk beside LR is baffling... they will need lots of support when he's sentenced & perhaps that's when they'll turn to their Grandfather & Aunt.

    ~

    I'm a member at last!

    Hi and welcome Cherries



    Agree totally re the grins on the girls, very bizarre IMHO



    I suspect they believe he is innocent because it is intolerable to their psyches to believe otherwise.

    If, as we all hope, LR is found guilty, they will certainly need a lot of support as their emotional and psychological foundations will be torn out from under them.

    JMO MOO
    Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
    Benjamin Franklin

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  17. #559
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    Hello everyone
    This is my first post. I have been a reader of this forum for years and have finally decided to join

    I agree with the posters that the daughters' grinning and LR's smug smirking is most odd and inappropriate in the photographs of them before Corryn’s death.
    I have seen a lot of photographs of the Rayneys together as a couple not long before Corryn disappeared. One thing I notice is that although at first glance they look like a normal smiling couple, if you look at Lloyd's mouth, it is very tense and not a real smile. For example, look at the photographs of them together on the plane when they went for their bali trip. Corryn's smile is beautiful but Lloyd's is not genuine at all.

    I don't understand why LR got bail and was allowed to look after the daughters, when he was accused of murdering their mother, and they were potential witnesses. This seems outrageous to me. At the very least he could try to convince them of things that suit him.

    Traditionally witnesses are in danger from accused murderers - if an accused murderer decides that a witness "knows too much", they might decide to "bump them off".

    The daughter that was in the house at the time of the murder may well have heard something, but been convinced by LR to forget it or that she imagined it.
    I remember being 10 (as one of the daughters was when Corryn first disappeared) and if my father had told me that I was wrong about something I had seen or heard, I would have convinced myself that I was wrong about it, even if I wasn't.

    The more I think about this case, the more I think that it has been horribly mishandled by the police and the legal system in general. Things like the mishandling of the evidence and LR getting bail and being allowed to look after the children. LR being allowed to lie about the burglar alarm without it being checked until it was too late etc.

    It is such a very sad case. Someone like Corryn, so beautiful, intelligent and a pillar of the community, to be cut down like that, is horrendous and beggars belief.

    The only bright spot is that she spent her last evening alive doing something that she really loved - dancing.

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  19. #560
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    Hello everyone

    I have had some thoughts about the lack of blood in the house.
    I remember reading a lot about the case of Nina Reiser a few years ago (again there are a lot of similarities between that case and the case of GBC and LR).
    Hans Reiser killed his wife Nina by strangling her. He claimed to be not guilty until he was finally found guilty and then offered a reduced sentence if he told them where he had buried her. At that point he started giving out information.

    He said that he had strangled Nina, but there hadn't been any blood until a fair while after she died, when her nose started to bleed.

    Perhaps that is what happens when someone is strangled. Perhaps that is why there was blood found in Corryn's car, but not at the house.

    In the Reiser case, the police found very little blood and from memory, I don't think that any of it was from the murder.

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  21. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessi View Post
    Hello everyone

    I have had some thoughts about the lack of blood in the house.
    I remember reading a lot about the case of Nina Reiser a few years ago (again there are a lot of similarities between that case and the case of GBC and LR).
    Hans Reiser killed his wife Nina by strangling her. He claimed to be not guilty until he was finally found guilty and then offered a reduced sentence if he told them where he had buried her. At that point he started giving out information.

    He said that he had strangled Nina, but there hadn't been any blood until a fair while after she died, when her nose started to bleed.

    Perhaps that is what happens when someone is strangled. Perhaps that is why there was blood found in Corryn's car, but not at the house

    In the Reiser case, the police found very little blood and from memory, I don't think that any of it was from the murder.

    That's really weird I was just thinking that very same thing this morning

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  23. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessi View Post
    Hello everyone
    This is my first post. I have been a reader of this forum for years and have finally decided to join

    I agree with the posters that the daughters' grinning and LR's smug smirking is most odd and inappropriate in the photographs of them before Corryn’s death.
    I have seen a lot of photographs of the Rayneys together as a couple not long before Corryn disappeared. One thing I notice is that although at first glance they look like a normal smiling couple, if you look at Lloyd's mouth, it is very tense and not a real smile. For example, look at the photographs of them together on the plane when they went for their bali trip. Corryn's smile is beautiful but Lloyd's is not genuine at all.

    I don't understand why LR got bail and was allowed to look after the daughters, when he was accused of murdering their mother, and they were potential witnesses. This seems outrageous to me. At the very least he could try to convince them of things that suit him.

    Traditionally witnesses are in danger from accused murderers - if an accused murderer decides that a witness "knows too much", they might decide to "bump them off".

    The daughter that was in the house at the time of the murder may well have heard something, but been convinced by LR to forget it or that she imagined it.
    I remember being 10 (as one of the daughters was when Corryn first disappeared) and if my father had told me that I was wrong about something I had seen or heard, I would have convinced myself that I was wrong about it, even if I wasn't.

    The more I think about this case, the more I think that it has been horribly mishandled by the police and the legal system in general. Things like the mishandling of the evidence and LR getting bail and being allowed to look after the children. LR being allowed to lie about the burglar alarm without it being checked until it was too late etc.

    It is such a very sad case. Someone like Corryn, so beautiful, intelligent and a pillar of the community, to be cut down like that, is horrendous and beggars belief.

    The only bright spot is that she spent her last evening alive doing something that she really loved - dancing.
    Hi Alessi and welcome



    good to have you aboard.

    Yes, there have been errors in my opinion, thankfully the QPS seem to have learned from them and appear not to be repeating them in the GBC case.

    Let us hope and pru that justice will prevail in this case despite the errors.



    JMO MOO
    Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
    Benjamin Franklin

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  25. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini Girl View Post
    Hi Alessi and welcome



    good to have you aboard.

    Yes, there have been errors in my opinion, thankfully the QPS seem to have learned from them and appear not to be repeating them in the GBC case.

    Let us hope and pru that justice will prevail in this case despite the errors.



    JMO MOO
    Thankyou for the welcome!
    I really hope that justice prevails here, though I agree with other posters that LR seems very confident that he will get off.

    The mishandling of evidence really disturbs me - I know that in the past there have been accused murderers getting off or getting decisions reversed due to technicalities related to evidence (Gordon Wood is a good example).

    I don't think that LR was framed. Someone wanting to frame him would not have gone to the effort of burying the body in Kings Park, they would want it to be found easily. I beleive that it is too far fetched to say that a framer would have deliberately damaged the car and left an oil trail in order to frame LR.

    Cheers

    Alessi

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  27. #564
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    Hi everyone

    LR's body language when he was released on bail, I believe gives him away.
    The link to the video is below. Watch his eyes carefully when he says 'and I look forward to finally being able to prove my innocence'. His eyes flicker on the word 'innocence'.
    I have read a few books on lie detecting and according to those, this would indicate that he knows that he is NOT innocent.

    The video is in this link http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/ra...223-196d3.html

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  29. #565
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    Thank you so much for the lovely welcome !

    Regarding the lack of blood evidence in or around their property, the first thing I thought about was how LR had professed to know 'how to commit the perfect murder' ... not sure who he is supposed to have said this to, but he'd hardly be leaving an incriminating speck of blood around, he knew extensive search would soon follow.
    After all, the perfect murder plan was near fool proof, until the murderer smacked the bollard with Corryn's car.

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  31. #566
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    apologies if it's been mentioned a dozen times already... just need to back up my post above with a link

    'Murder book'

    Last month it was revealed in court that state prosecutor John Aguis, QC, intended to bring to trial a witness's testimony that Mr Rayney was planning on writing a book related to his expertise on how to commit the perfect murder.

    "It relates to the claimed expertise of the accused as to how one could commit a murder and not be detected," Mr Aguis told Justice Martin.

    "...He made a statement to a witness about his expertise in that area."

    http://m.smh.com.au/wa-news/corryn-r...309-1uotx.html

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  33. #567
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    Judge confused by forensic evidence

    Interesting information in the video at the bottom of this report:

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-investigated/

    Apparently the Judge is finding the detailed forensic evidence confusing and the Prosecution are preparing a simplified report for him.

    Also mentions that both the girls are going to testify.

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  35. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    Interesting information in the video at the bottom of this report:

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-investigated/

    Apparently the Judge is finding the detailed forensic evidence confusing and the Prosecution are preparing a simplified report for him.

    Also mentions that both the girls are going to testify.


    BBM. It scares me Solaris, that they will have been thoroughly schooled in what to say and what not to say, by their father, possibly in ways that are not even obvious to them.



    JMO MOO
    Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
    Benjamin Franklin

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  37. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini Girl View Post
    Hi Alessi and welcome



    good to have you aboard.

    Yes, there have been errors in my opinion, thankfully the QPS seem to have learned from them and appear not to be repeating them in the GBC case.

    Let us hope and pru that justice will prevail in this case despite the errors.



    JMO MOO
    That was meant to be pray, by the way, not pru!!



    JMO MOO
    Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
    Benjamin Franklin

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    KG1

  39. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherries View Post
    apologies if it's been mentioned a dozen times already... just need to back up my post above with a link

    'Murder book'

    Last month it was revealed in court that state prosecutor John Aguis, QC, intended to bring to trial a witness's testimony that Mr Rayney was planning on writing a book related to his expertise on how to commit the perfect murder.

    "It relates to the claimed expertise of the accused as to how one could commit a murder and not be detected," Mr Aguis told Justice Martin.

    "...He made a statement to a witness about his expertise in that area."

    http://m.smh.com.au/wa-news/corryn-r...309-1uotx.html
    Stunning arrogance from LR, as we have seen before IMHO



    JMO MOO
    Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
    Benjamin Franklin

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  41. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini Girl View Post
    [/B]

    BBM. It scares me Solaris, that they will have been thoroughly schooled in what to say and what not to say, by their father, possibly in ways that are not even obvious to them.



    JMO MOO
    Yes, agreed. I think everybody knows that this will be a possibility. Their loyalty to their father is very evident.

    Can't imagine that there will be much to be gained by the Prosecution calling them. I'm guessing that they'll be called by the Defense (probably to say what a great guy LR is and how he couldn't possibly have killed their mother). The Prosecution will have to tread very carefully during cross-examination - after all they are young, vulnerable girls who have lost their mother.

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  43. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    Yes, agreed. I think everybody knows that this will be a possibility. Their loyalty to their father is very evident.

    Can't imagine that there will be much to be gained by the Prosecution calling them. I'm guessing that they'll be called by the Defense (probably to say what a great guy LR is and how he couldn't possibly have killed their mother). The Prosecution will have to tread very carefully during cross-examination - after all they are young, vulnerable girls who have lost their mother.


    BBM. which makes their wide grins even more bizarre to me, the more I think about it.



    JMO MOO
    Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.
    Benjamin Franklin

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  45. #573
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    The trial was initially set down for five months but when it started the prosecution said it hoped that would be closer to two months. It is now in its sixth week.

    Told of how many witnesses were still to come Justice Brian Martin quipped today: “Is that supposed to make me feel better or depressed?”

    (Quote above from West Australian 21/8/2012)


    Seems to me our judge has either got a very good sense of humour or he's already decided the verdict!

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  47. #574
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    Prosecution's evidence has many flaws...none of it 100% like DNA so what's the point? How could someone be convicted on evidence that is 'remarkably like' , 'consistent with' or 'similar to'. Not looking forward to more witnesses...even forensic police can't agree on when/how seed pods were removed (how hard is it to take a photograph!) and they were experts on duty. I realise there were hundreds of samples taken - but all circumstantial evidence. Sorry - so frustrated that my feathers are ruffled
    Last edited by TweetyPie; 08-21-2012 at 06:35 AM. Reason: sp

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  49. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
    The trial was initially set down for five months but when it started the prosecution said it hoped that would be closer to two months. It is now in its sixth week.

    Told of how many witnesses were still to come Justice Brian Martin quipped today: “Is that supposed to make me feel better or depressed?”

    (Quote above from West Australian 21/8/2012)


    Seems to me our judge has either got a very good sense of humour or he's already decided the verdict!
    How unprofessional

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