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Thread: The Package and the Defense Motion

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    If it was x-rayed they would know what's inside of it even without opening.
    not all.

    Have you try going to the airport? specially International airports? sometimes they have to physically open your bag to see what's inside

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Prosecution claims Aurora Police department has it, not FBI.
    Things like this FBI always gets involved quietly - they have to identify if this is Terrorism or not and i know you know it.

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  5. #103
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    From what I have gathered in the various news reports, JH is the source of information that led LE to look for and ultimately find the package. He TOLD them he had mailed that package. I remember seeing media reports where they actually had a robot get the package because they thought it might be booby trapped. (Think Unabomber...) He had just committed mass murder and injury, he had designed entry to his apartment to be lethal to many more people - NO WAY in HECK would any sane person open an envelope form this guy! What happens with physician/patient confidentiality if the patient ultimately tells LE to go and find the information??? I think psychiatrist have a duty to notify 'identifiable' victims of one of their patients, but I am not sure about what should happen if the victims are nameless???

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-packages.html

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  7. #104
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    Neutral reporting about today's developments

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86Q19720120728

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  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    From what I have gathered in the various news reports, JH is the source of information that led LE to look for and ultimately find the package. He TOLD them he had mailed that package.
    Today's prosecution motion specifically denies that report, and all but accuses Fox of making it up.

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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynar View Post
    Today's prosecution motion specifically denies that report, and all but accuses Fox of making it up.

    well the Media including Foxnews are lawyering up and their first request is to unseal court file

    http://www.courts.state.co.us/userfi...o%20Unseal.pdf

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  13. #107
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    SmoothOperator is offline Sadly what connects all these puzzles is that there's a victim@the heart of each
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    Well let's see here.. This fools availability to the campus had been gone since what?? June.. Was it not June that his on campus status was revoked??.. So obviously she, IF she even "treated" this individual, she hadn't met with him since June..

    As I said, she is yet just another victim of this monster's sick game that he continues to play(ie."why am I in jail?").. Shut the eff up, dude!! Your acting skills aren't even enough to make it onto the worst "reality" tv show imaginable!!.. Hope you got better than this for your day in court.. If not.. Well.. Death row awaits you..
    The quickest way to become a fool is to argue with one..

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  15. #108
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    Respectfully, JBean is over cleaning up posts from the armchair psyche thread to bring to this thread. Let's all try to cooperate with the mods, who work so hard, by posting to the most appropriate thread.

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  17. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
    Well let's see here.. This fools availability to the campus had been gone since what?? June.. Was it not June that his on campus status was revoked??.. So obviously she, IF she even "treated" this individual, she hadn't met with him since June..

    As I said, she is yet just another victim of this monster's sick game that he continues to play(ie."why am I in jail?").. Shut the eff up, dude!! Your acting skills aren't even enough to make it onto the worst "reality" tv show imaginable!!.. Hope you got better than this for your day in court.. If not.. Well.. Death row awaits you..
    Can't say that for sure... if she thought he needed treatment, she quite possibly could have continued seeing him off campus. I know school psychs that have done this for expelled students.

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  19. #110
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    THE PACKAGE: Aurora theater shooter sent notebook to CU before massacre

    "The anonymous Fox News source that the package was received on July 12 and sat on a loading dock is inaccurate," according to the university press release.

    Fox News on Thursday noted that in none of their reporting did they suggest the package had been on the loading dock. "We respect the University's position but are confident that our law enforcement source, who we will not name because of a prior agreement, was in a position to know the timing of the package's whereabouts.
    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ay-have-mailed

    Fox Executive Editor John Moody went on to say he believed this is part of the evidence that will be presented at trial.

    Interesting.

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  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ay-have-mailed

    Fox Executive Editor John Moody went on to say he believed this is part of the evidence that will be presented at trial.

    Interesting.
    Looks like they are not correcting any errors and standing by to what they reported .

    Very Interesting.

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  23. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ay-have-mailed

    Fox Executive Editor John Moody went on to say he believed this is part of the evidence that will be presented at trial.

    Interesting.
    They should keep on talking. Considering motions by the defense, would fox news end up in court and be asked to reveal their anonymous sources?
    Just my opinion

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  25. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    They should keep on talking. Considering motions by the defense, would fox news end up in court and be asked to reveal their anonymous sources?
    I don't think they will ever reveal who their annonymous sources were. There are much bigger fish to fry in this case. My Mother used to have a saying.... "The Truth Will Stand When The World Is On Fire". She was/is right - I feel confident there was an envelope, and it was NOT delivered to the end source before the murders in the theatre. Was it mailed late? Was it lost in the shuffle of a large University mail room?? Would it have mattered if it had been delivered on time? THAT is the question - and we do not have those answers. If the envelope had been delivered, what would have happened??? We can't answer that because we do not know what was really in it. Stick drawings of a person shooting other people is not illegal. Words that say "I am going to shoot a LOT of people" IS illegal... you just can't make those kind of threats. If I say this however.... "I fantasize about shooting a lot of people" - that is NOT illegal. Round and round we go... I get dizzy.

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  27. #114
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    I'd be interested to know more about Dr Fenton:

    From New York Times:
    In September 2004, Dr. Fenton received an admonition from Colorado’s board of medical examiners for prescribing medications — including the allergy medication Claritin, the sleeping pill Ambien, two tranquilizers and the narcotic painkiller Vicodin — for a few colleagues and her husband on several occasions, and failing to keep proper documentation of the prescriptions...
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/us...tric-care.html

    Did she prescribe JH drugs? What else is in the doctor's past that could be constrained as evidence....because....and I'm calling this one early....she's going to be in the dock accused of mis-treating him....if that's the correct legal term.

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  29. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    They should keep on talking. Considering motions by the defense, would fox news end up in court and be asked to reveal their anonymous sources?
    Absolutely not. Colorado has a strong journalist shield law which does not allow a Court to force a journalist to reveal anonymous sources whereas in other States without such laws journalists can and have been held in contempt and jailed for not revealing sources.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

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  31. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
    Well let's see here.. This fools availability to the campus had been gone since what?? June.. Was it not June that his on campus status was revoked??..
    A lot was happening due to that failed exam. He would have to vacate his apartment in 30 days and his health care (student based?) would end. Even if he could see the counselor off campus, he might not want to, as he may have to pay out of pocket. Maybe sending the package was a way to try to continue his contact with the counselor.

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  33. #117
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    Trying to get caught up, but saw a question about Hippa and attorneys getting defendant's records.

    Prosecution and defense will receive any and all records of defendant for his entire life. (If they find out everywhere he has ever been treated.) Hippa is overruled by Court in a criminal matter.

    In fact, any and all confidentiality rules no longer apply. An example would be, the attorneys could get copies of every time you applied to receive food stamps, if necessary.

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

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  35. #118
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    Why wouldn't the LE open the package?? Wouldn't they want to check for unknown powders or something like that? They probably x-rayed the package first for bombs, then opened to check for powders or other dangerous substances that wouldn't show up on x-rays.

    I doubt they would just xray it and seal the package up. What would happen if it had a something like "anthrax" or something else. Yeah, don't think so. I think they checked and double checked that package before sealing it up. That's why I think it was leaked that it was a notebook. The LE "probably" looked through each page to check that their was nothing dangerous hiding there.

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  37. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollinginit View Post
    Why wouldn't the LE open the package?? Wouldn't they want to check for unknown powders or something like that? They probably x-rayed the package first for bombs, then opened to check for powders or other dangerous substances that wouldn't show up on x-rays.
    Yeah, someone had to open it. How else would they check for bio hazard?

    I'm wondering if the phrasing in the Motion is just semantics. Ie...it hasn't been "examined" for fingerprints yet, or handwriting analysis yet, and so on. (Which also means, it has to be opened.)

    Could also mean it has not been officially entered into evidence yet (therefore not falling under Discovery) as it has not been determined if it is from defendant or loony hoaxter. The package could be completely unrelated to the case. (Although there were reports that defendant said it would be there, that does not mean this is said package, if defendant did in fact make that statement. That's the way it goes.)
    Last edited by 21merc7; 07-28-2012 at 06:03 AM.

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

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  39. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21merc7 View Post
    Yeah, someone had to open it. How else would they check for bio hazard?

    I'm wondering if the phrasing in the Motion is just semantics. Ie...it hasn't been "examined" for fingerprints yet, or handwriting analysis yet, and so on. (Which also means, it has to be opened.)
    Exactly! Can you just imagine for a moment that they ONLY x-rayed the package????? Okay, then they sealed it up. However long it takes, somebody like a judge or lawyer opens it one day and it has some bio-hazard in it. Some powder taped to a page. I just don't see it at all. That's why I think the package was fully examined by somebody. Probably some fingerprints taken and handwritting samples, like you said.

    I usually don't trust the media much. I do believe fox (this time) though. Whoever leaked to fox is going to get caught pretty quick, IMO. I bet when they opened the package, there were only a few LE officals around.

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  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastingsChi View Post
    Absolutely not. Colorado has a strong journalist shield law which does not allow a Court to force a journalist to reveal anonymous sources whereas in other States without such laws journalists can and have been held in contempt and jailed for not revealing sources.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

    Thank you for clearing that up so quickly, Hastings!

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  43. #122
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    In a preview of likely battles to come, the defence lawyers also argued that the contents of the package should not be used as evidence because communications between Holmes and his psychiatrist, Lynne Fenton, were "protected".

    The filing said Holmes was Ms Fenton's psychiatric patient.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-2...health/4161278

    Any thoughts as to why the defence would not want the contents of the package be used as evidence? IF the media reports are true and the note contained details of the attack using stick figures wouldn't that help their client towards perhaps a mental illness defence? OR would it add to the already premeditated evidence against him which would perhaps destroy any chance that he would be deemed incompetent to stand trial?

    I think I answered my own question. lol

  44. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastingsChi View Post
    Absolutely not. Colorado has a strong journalist shield law which does not allow a Court to force a journalist to reveal anonymous sources whereas in other States without such laws journalists can and have been held in contempt and jailed for not revealing sources.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
    Then what exactly was defense asking for in their motion? Defense wants a hearing to obtain "appropriate sanctions for misconduct" I presume toward the supposed law enforcement sources (if they exist).
    Just my opinion

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  46. #124
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    I believe the motion was against the State and not the sources but I'll have to reread it.

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