The Joker and others

Discuss the parallels between the movie,the Joker or other comic book references here.

I hope I can remember what I posted last night after researching the comic. I'm not a comic person, so I got all my information off of wiki or other comic sites that explain about a character.

Joker was not really a goof ball. He killed lots of people, even the very first Robin in the comics.

Joker put his parents in a closet and burned the house down b/c they seen him kill a neighborhood animal. His face was disfigured b/c of the antidepressant he took (or so that is believed)

He loves explosives and dangerous gases. That's considered his special power b/c he is so skilled in them.

In one comic, he mass murdered 2000 people but was let off b/c the court would always find him NOT GUILTY by reason of insanity.

He is known for hijacking NEWS stations.

There are many, many wicked and evil things he did. He was so bad that the comic league wouldn't put him in some "best liked" classification b/c they considered joker was the worst of all characters b/c he actually killed people.

About his appearance: Joker is suppose to mimic a joker trading card. His appearance changes MANY times in the comics. He's actually pretty good at blending in with the crowd (as you seen at the beginning of the Dark Knight with heath ledger when he was dressed as a robber and you didn't know until he killed people)

The Dark Knight Batman movie does deplict the Joker as a very dark character. That's probably why a lot of comic people liked it better than any of the other Batman movies. In most of the older movies and cartoons, Joker is deplicted like a goof ball that just causes problems but is easily delt with by Batman.

Here is the wiki page. It is pretty long, but it goes into details about certain books where the joker does certain things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_joker
I know some people don't like wiki, but you can also find what I wrote above and what is listed under wiki at other comic book sites. I am pretty sure they go into MUCH more detail than what is listed on wiki.

That's not quite correct (avid comic reader here)

The most universally accepted origin story for Joker is he was married and had to keep taking on more jobs to support his wife. He was working at a chemical factory and quit in order to become a comedian. His wife dies in an accident. He agrees to assist 2 thugs to break into the chemical factory he used to work at. They are killed in a shoot out, Joker falls into a vat of chemicals and emerges as the joker.

I have never heard of any origin where his face was disfigured by an antidepressant. While the origin occasionally varies, his creation into the Joker is almost always cited as caused by falling into chemicals.

newsleuther said:

That's not quite correct (avid comic reader here)

The most universally accepted origin story for Joker is he was married and had to keep taking on more jobs to support his wife. He was working at a chemical factory and quit in order to become a comedian. His wife dies in an accident. He agrees to assist 2 thugs to break into the chemical factory he used to work at. They are killed in a shoot out, Joker falls into a vat of chemicals and emerges as the joker.

I have never heard of any origin where his face was disfigured by an antidepressant. While the origin occasionally varies, his creation into the Joker is almost always cited as caused by falling into chemicals.

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Well, I did read that verison but the orgins of the Joker are really not known. He lies all the time. His backstory changes all the time. Gosh, Joker and Batman have been around since 1940.

The second arc of Batman Confidential (#7-12) re-imagines the Joker as a gifted criminal and abandons the Red Hood identity, also called Jack, who is nearly suicidal due to boredom with his "job". He talks to a waitress, Harleen Quinzel, who convinces him to find something to live for. Jack becomes obsessed with Batman after he breaks up one of his jobs, leading Jack to attract Batman's attention at a ball. Jack injures Lorna Shore (whom Bruce Wayne is dating), leading Batman to disfigure his face with a batarang. Jack escapes and Batman gives Jack's information to mobsters, who torture Jack in a chemical plant. Jack kills several of his assailants after escaping, but falls into an empty vat as wild gunfire punctures the chemical tanks above him, and the resultant flood of antidepressant chemicals alters his appearance to that of a clown, completing his transformation into the Joker.[

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But I am willing to admit that I am not a comic reader. Most of my information has come from talking to my BIL (who is a huge reader and collector) and to some research on the interweb. DC comic's web site and wiki. I usually read on Wiki and confirm elsewhere.

I do now see that that was an arc in a series. But if you asked most comic fans how the Joker became the Joker, they would say from falling into a vat of chemicals during a robber, that is the generally accepted origin.

Comics will frequently do "reboots" where they start over with an established character in a new series.

The one thing that did strike me, comparison wise, between the fictional Joker in the comics, and the shootings, was that Joker would often cause a huge catastrophe in order to divert police and rescue to that event, while his real crime would be taking place in another part of Gotham.

Which it seems like may have been the case with rigging his apt to blow up. If the apt had blown up before the shootings, police and fire would be busy there when the shootings started at theater across town

I love to learn....so I do hope others with comic experience post and write how they see the joker. Somebody that is actually reading them and looking at the pictures would probably get a much better idea than somebody like me that is just reading a summary.

The Joker is playing the amnesia card.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...james-holmes-claims-amnesia-article-1.1122289

I'm looking up Joker Amnesia stories, as I thought I recalled one from childhood. I'm still looking but here is one:

Batman #16 (April-May 1943) “The Joker Reforms!”
Don Cameron and Ruth “Bunny” Lyons Kaufman (w), Bob Kane (p), Jerry Robinson (i)
First Alfred
Collected in Batman: The Dark Knight Archives Vol. 4 HC (2003), and Batman Chronicles Vol. 9 TPB (2010)
Joker and his men escape Gotham after stealing a fortune in jewels. The plane crashes and Joker goes down with the plane after his men parachute to safety. From the crash, Joker gets amnesia, he finds the jewels and turns them over to the police claiming to be Ed Smith. Batman and Robin trail Joker , learn of his amnesia and play along. Joker’s henchen try to attack Batman, but Joker helps the Crusaders proving he’s honest. Joker eventually remembers where the rest of his loot is hidden. He intends to turn it over to the police, but his henchmen jump him. Batman and Robin save him, but a blow to the head resotres the Joker’s memory. Batman arrests the Joker and his henchment and recovers the stolen loot.

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http://www.jokeruniverse.com/?page_id=409

Then there is this, not sure what it is:

http://m.fanfiction.net/s/3192799/1/

newsleuther said:

The one thing that did strike me, comparison wise, between the fictional Joker in the comics, and the shootings, was that Joker would often cause a huge catastrophe in order to divert police and rescue to that event, while his real crime would be taking place in another part of Gotham.

Which it seems like may have been the case with rigging his apt to blow up. If the apt had blown up before the shootings, police and fire would be busy there when the shootings started at theater across town

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Ahh good point!

I'm getting sidetracked... Batman has had amnesia, rescued others with amnesia, more characters had amnesia, villains had amnesia gas... ETA: I have concluded amnesia is in a LOT of Batman stuff.

Joker originally known as Redhood:

Very little is known about the Joker's history prior to choosing a life of crime, other than he was a poor man. His original birth name was never revealed.

Finding honest work unfulfilling of his personal ambitions, he turned to crime to amass a personal fortune for himself. He first gained attention in early 1940 when he was operating as a masked professional criminal leader known as the Red Hood. The Red Hood and his men attempted to rob a profitable manufacturing business adjacent to a chemical processing plant. Batman and Robin arrived on the scene and the Red Hood abandoned his henchmen, seeking to escape by running through the chemical plant. Batman and Robin cornered him on a catwalk and the Red Hood was left with little choice but to dive off the catwalk into a large vat of steaming chemicals. According on one printing of the Joker's origin [1], the chemicals were the inks used to make playing cards. The chemical factory was listed as the "Monarch Card company", which would prove to be prophetic in the criminal's own development. Batman and Robin naturally assumed that their adversary died being exposed to the heated toxic chemicals. The Red Hood actually survived the chemical bath and managed to escape through a drainage pipe that emptied out into the river. However when he emerged from the waste pipes, he discovered that the chemicals turned his hair green, his skin chalk-white and his lips rouge red. Driven partially insane from the experience, the criminal decided to pattern himself after the playing cards Joker character that the chemicals were used to create.

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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Joker_(Earth-Two)

I'm guessing there are many "tales" of how the joker got his "smile".. As he also states that it was due to his wife being long since depressed.. And possibly was disfigured and that the joker is the one who sliced his smile in order to make his wife smile.. Idk?? .. I suppose different writers wrote different causes/motives of how the jokers face came to be..

Initially I believed that the shooter very much intended his apt to be a distraction allowing his reign of terror and death toll to be longer and higher..

Now hearing that the joker often times set up such distractions from the big crime he was committing.. It only further lends credence to that being the shooters intent..

The person who would have opened the door to his apt would have found themselves immediately sliced in two.. This was the trigger which would then set in motion all the other sequence of bombs and grenades that would've taken that entire unit down..jmo..

21merc7 said:

I'm looking up Joker Amnesia stories, as I thought I recalled one from childhood. I'm still looking but here is one:



http://www.jokeruniverse.com/?page_id=409

Then there is this, not sure what it is:

http://m.fanfiction.net/s/3192799/1/

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#2 is fan fiction, written by a fan.

21merc7 said:

I'm getting sidetracked... Batman has had amnesia, rescued other with amnesia, more characters had amnesia, villains had amnesia gas... ETA: I have concluded amnesia is in a LOT of Batman stuff.

Joker originally known as Redhood:



http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Joker_(Earth-Two)

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It can get a little confusing, for example that's the "earth two" joker. They do a lot with alternative universes in comics. So there can be two totally different Jokers depending on the universe it's occurring in, if that makes any sense.

Earth 2 Joker is the Golden Age Joker

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Joker_(New_Earth)

New Earth Joker is the modern Joker

Here's a link to all the different Jokers from different Universes/Multiverses/Storylines

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Joker

newsleuther said:

It can get a little confusing, for example that's the "earth two" joker. They do a lot with alternative universes in comics. So there can be two totally different Jokers depending on the universe it's occurring in, if that makes any sense.

Earth 2 Joker is the Golden Age Joker

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Joker_(New_Earth)

New Earth Joker is the modern Joker

Here's a link to all the different Jokers from different Universes/Multiverses/Storylines

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Joker

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TMI, TMI! Lol. Clearly I have not looked at comics since I was a child. Thank you for the info.

Wonder if defendant is going to try "quantum theory amnesia", lol!

Ugh....this comic stuff is HARD.

I just watched the dark knight with Heath ledger.

3 different times, the joker tells 3 different stories on how he got his scars.

My daughter (who was mad bc I made her watch a comic movie with me) said that he was very creepy....especially when he put on the orangish/ reddish color wig when he was in the nurses uniform. He says a lot of weirdish things to Harvey dent in that part. Stuff about chaos and how he enjoys messing up people's prefect routines.

Here's the YouTube of the nurse part for those who haven't seen it. I think it starts about the 50 second mark.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=ZRG1tWQN6e8

Eta....it's pretty eerie when he says " look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a few bullets"

rollinginit said:

Here's the YouTube of the nurse part for those who haven't seen it. I think it starts about the 50 second mark.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=ZRG1tWQN6e8

Eta....it's pretty eerie when he says " look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a few bullets"

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I went to see The Dark Knight Rises last Saturday. I went for two reasons: 1. Because some of my friends said they were scared to go. You can NEVER , EVER, let terrorist stop you from living your life. 2. I wanted to know the plot line. I am not a huge movie buff, and I certainly don't do comics, but I was in hopes of finding clues about JH's crime in the movie. After watching the trailer for the previous Dark Knight movie, I think the clues might lie in the previous movie. That makes a lot of sense, because JH couldn't really know much about the new Batman movie - he had not seen it yet!!! I am SO thankful to have this forum, and this thread, with people who KNOW what they are talking about, and bright minds helping to analyze it.

so as we all know now, Joker's hair is GREEN , but he got orange-red that looks more like Ronald Mcdonald. Any good interpretation out there?

February said:

so as we all know now, Joker's hair is GREEN , but he got orange-red that looks more like Ronald Mcdonald. Any good interpretation out there?

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In the lat movie, Jocker wore red wig when he was playing a nurse.