View Poll Results: Who do you believe killed JonBenet?

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  • Patsy

    168 25.00%
  • John

    44 6.55%
  • Burke

    108 16.07%
  • an unknown intruder

    86 12.80%
  • BR (head bash), then JR

    4 0.60%
  • BR (head bash); then JR & PR (strangled/coverup)

    113 16.82%
  • Knowing all I know, still on the fence.

    55 8.18%
  • John, with an 'inside' accomplice

    11 1.64%
  • I think John and Patsy caught him and he made her cover up

    17 2.53%
  • I still have no idea

    57 8.48%
  • patsy and john helped cover it up

    9 1.34%
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  1. #1381
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    I've always thought that Patsy killed her accidentally in a rage, then John helped to stage the scene. However, it's always in the back of my mind that:
    In a 2001 interview with grand jury specialist Michael Kane, who led the 13-month grand jury probe, it has been reported "There remain 'dozens' of secrets, he said. 'Absolutely. Dozens. And a lot of what the public thinks is fact is simply not fact.'"
    I think important details have been deliberately kept quiet.


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  3. #1382
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    I know I'm the minority but I will never believe that John and patsy killed jon benet. I don't believe Burke had anything to do with it either.

    To me the more " evidence" I see the more convoluted it becomes. I think that there was such a mess made so early that there was so much real evidence lost and the first cops on scene were too inexperienced to handle such a crime.

    I believe a stranger did this. I think it's completely possible a stranger did this. I do not find it at all plausible that anyone in the family did it.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.


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  5. #1383
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    I don't get why it would be thought that Jonbenet was molested before being hit in the head. The autopsy report says it was just before or actually at death. Even after Kolar's book I still can't get past thinking that Patsy did it all, even the prior trauma due to crazed cleaning of Jonbenet when she soiled or wet. One thing is for sure though, whoever strangled Jonbenet knew there had been prior vaginal trauma. I also think it happened while wearing the pink nightgown and it was going to be hidden with the body while John was out of the house on a wild goose chase.


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  7. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirplegrl View Post
    I know I'm the minority but I will never believe that John and patsy killed jon benet. I don't believe Burke had anything to do with it either.

    To me the more " evidence" I see the more convoluted it becomes. I think that there was such a mess made so early that there was so much real evidence lost and the first cops on scene were too inexperienced to handle such a crime.

    I believe a stranger did this. I think it's completely possible a stranger did this. I do not find it at all plausible that anyone in the family did it.
    With all due respect, if you've come to that conclusion you are unfamiliar with the totality of evidence.

    There is not a single shred of real evidence of an intruder. IMO


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice


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  9. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirplegrl View Post
    I know I'm the minority but I will never believe that John and patsy killed jon benet. I don't believe Burke had anything to do with it either.

    To me the more " evidence" I see the more convoluted it becomes. I think that there was such a mess made so early that there was so much real evidence lost and the first cops on scene were too inexperienced to handle such a crime.

    I believe a stranger did this. I think it's completely possible a stranger did this. I do not find it at all plausible that anyone in the family did it.
    Hi Pirplegrl! Yes, you are in the minority of opinion on this case, but you know what? That's alright. Discussion of any and all angles can be useful.

    So may I ask you: what specific pieces of evidence lead you away from suspecting one or more Ramsey's as the perps to a complete stranger doing all this? Did the intruder also commit the previous sexual abuse on JB? What was the purpose of the ransom note? Do you feel the R's know/knew the idenity of the alleged intruder? Do you feel the R's are fully inncoent, or might have been involved in some way?

    I hope this doesn't sound like an attack with so many questions, I am genuinely interested in what you think.


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  11. #1386
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    The spot of blood on the pillow - was it from the head wound? I would think that with a head wound as bad as JB's that there would be a lot of blood. Perhaps the bash was done in the bathroom, or the kitchen, which would be easier to clean up. Somebody must have been very busy getting rid of evidence, probably in the neighbors trash cans.
    If the head bash was done in the basement, or the wine cellar wouldn't there have been a stain on the concrete floor?
    Last edited by Darlene733510; 02-02-2013 at 03:10 PM.


  12. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlene733510 View Post
    The spot of blood on the pillow - was it from the head wound? I would think that with a head wound as bad as JB's that there would be a lot of blood. Perhaps the bash was done in the bathroom, or the kitchen, which would be easier to clean up. Somebody must have been very busy getting rid of evidence, probably in the neighbors trash cans.
    If the head bash was done in the basement, or the wine cellar wouldn't there have been a stain on the concrete floor?
    Her head wound never bled-it was an internal wound..there are other posters here who can explain way better than me


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  14. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlene733510 View Post
    The spot of blood on the pillow - was it from the head wound? I would think that with a head wound as bad as JB's that there would be a lot of blood. Perhaps the bash was done in the bathroom, or the kitchen, which would be easier to clean up. Somebody must have been very busy getting rid of evidence, probably in the neighbors trash cans.
    If the head bash was done in the basement, or the wine cellar wouldn't there have been a stain on the concrete floor?
    Darlene733510,
    Indirectly, yes, it likely resulted from residue issuing from JonBenet's nose.


    .


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  16. #1389
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    Is Colorado one of the states in which one spouse can not be compelled to testify against the other?


  17. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Is Colorado one of the states in which one spouse can not be compelled to testify against the other?
    If I'm not mistaken I believe that holds true in all states.


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    otg

  19. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nom de plume View Post
    If I'm not mistaken I believe that holds true in all states.
    Spousal privilege comes under Federal rules for Federal cases but each state has their own set of statutes. There seems to be a lot of variables at the state level. I know next to nothing about Colorado statutes and even less about interpreting them.

    I was thinking about how spousal privilege and the cross-fingerpointing defense might have worked if the Ramseys had gone to court before Patsy died.
    Last edited by BOESP; 02-02-2013 at 11:08 PM.


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  21. #1392
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyraKelly View Post
    Her head wound never bled-it was an internal wound..there are other posters here who can explain way better than me
    JB's head injury is a closed-scalp injury. Obviously if you look at the skull you can see just what a horrible injury it was- her head was cracked nearly in half- AND there was a large piece punched inward towards the brain. This part is a depressed fracture, and the crack is a linear fracture. One of the reasons why it is so important to LOOK at the autopsy photos is because it makes it very clear that this severe head injury could not have come from her falling, being dropped, or pushed into something (even a door knob).
    In a closed-scalp injury, the skin has not been broken and the blood (and there WAS blood) remains under the skin. There was blood in the skull case, and around the brain. Some of this could have seeped from her nose, but the coroner did not note blood there. Her mouth was swabbed as were her nostrils, and no specific mention of blood was noted. The mucus that was mentioned was described as "tan"- to me, that means it could have been slightly blood-tinged, as blood turns rusty-brown as oxygen hits it.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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  23. #1393
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    Is there an account somewhere of the Ws party? Was anything ever said about the way PR and JR interacted with each other? I've read a few things about the kids at the party, but I'm curious as to what the other guests said about the Rs.


  24. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope View Post
    JR is the strongest suspect. No other theory really makes any sense. PR can be ruled out completely, both as the killer and as a co-conspirator in the cover up. BDI is just complete nonsense.

    docG solved it years ago, but we've all been caught up in over-analyzing the case. I've recently seen that his theory makes the most sense.

    If both JR/PR were in on it, even if they just worked jointly on the coverup, then the police would not have been called shortly before 6am with the body in the basement.

    The staging does not fit with the RN. If there is a RN there should be no body. If they had staged it as an intruder murderer then they'd have left the body out in plain view, and naked - just the way a real intruder would do.

    But we have a RN, and a body hidden in the WC, redressed, and wrapped in a blanket. That doesn't make sense.

    It would be a lot safer for the Rs if the body were not in the house. Any plausible plan where the Rs acted as co-conspirators would include dumping the body. Yet the 911 call was placed with the body in the house and with staging that didn't fit with the RN.

    So, the RN wasn't meant to fool the police at 6am. It was meant to fool PR. It fooled her so well that she didn't read it carefully and went off and made a 911 call.

    Over and over the RN warns not to call the police or JB will be killed. I won't bother with quoting the movie lines, but the emphasis of the note is don't call the police if you want your daughter back alive.

    Many of us have figured that the original plan was to dump the body. That makes sense. But we figured that the plan was aborted for some reason. We figured what actually happened was plan B. But we failed to realize that the plan to dump the body had not been abandoned. It simply had not been implemented yet. It would have been implemented later, but PR called 911 and screwed-up the plan.

    Notice that the note gives JR until the morning of the 27th to come up with the money. Meanwhile, he has the perfect excuse for not calling the police. He can send PR and BR off to stay with friends, and then dump the body. After that he gets the money from the bank, phones in the ransom call, then makes the drop off. He looses $118K, but he can afford it.

    PR didn't cooperate in the coverup, because if she did, she'd never have made the 911 call. It would have been easy for them to run the above scenario working together. And it's plain silly to let the police have a chance to find the body in the house. Anywhere but Boulder that would be an automatic arrest.

    PR didn't write the note. I don't have time to go into all the details of that right now, but suffice to say that handwriting analysis is not a science. It's a pseudo science. It's opinion masquerading as science. Many "experts" thought JMK wrote the note when they compared his writing, that tells you how useful handwriting analysis is. Take a look at http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/ and you'll see that JR could easily have been the author.

    PR didn't help with the staging. Again, if she had been in on the coverup why not get rid of the body before calling 911. Also her fibers are not inside the size 12 bloomies. Hers are only on the outside of things, and she hugged JB's lifeless body when it was brought upstairs, so we really don't know whether fiber transfer happened downstairs or upstairs.

    Sure, her fibers are in the basement too, and she probably lied about wearing the red jacket (or was it a sweater) down there. Or there could have simply been fiber transfer that explains her red fibers in the basement.

    I'm going to write up my theory of the case for the members theories thread, but that will have to wait a while, when I'm not as busy. It's not that I can improve on docG's write up, but it might help if there were 2 people writing from the same perspective.

    Shake off your conviction that PR wrote the note. She didn't. It makes no sense for her to have called 911 when she did if she was in on it. It's that simple. Spending a couple more years analyzing the word "hence" or pondering why the Paughs bought 3 books as gifts, or trying to decide who also ate pineapple with JB is not going to solve the case. Step back, stop examining the bark on a particular tree, and notice that in front of you is a forest.

    The answer is plain as day if you can stop getting lost in the minutiae.

    The RN doesn't jibe with a body in the house. The RN was meant to buy time to dispose of the body. PR would know this if she were in on it. The fact that she called 911 shows us she wasn't in on it. The RN is consistent with stalling for time to get rid of the body. That's the whole case in a nutshell.

    Oh, and BDI is nonsese because in that scenario no one is going to jail, so there is no need for a coverup. BDIs love the theory because it seems to explain PR/JR pulling in team. But the 911 call with the body in the house makes no sense, so we know PR wasn't part of the team.

    We can't say anyone killed JB w/o a conviction. We can say who we think is the strongest suspect. IMO JDI is the strongest case theory.
    Chrishope,
    Oh, and BDI is nonsese because in that scenario no one is going to jail, so there is no need for a coverup. BDIs love the theory because it seems to explain PR/JR pulling in team. But the 911 call with the body in the house makes no sense, so we know PR wasn't part of the team.
    mmm, your ex post explanation is seriously intellectually deficient. We now know the R's were indicted, that does not preclude BDI, it only assumes the GJ knew more or less what we now know.

    The 911 call with the body in the house makes no sense so we can allow any conclusion we wish, is straight out of some logic 101 textbook i.e. from any inconsistency you may derive a truth. Lookup Godel he made constant use of this principle then ended up paranoid unable to eat, in case someone poisoned him, including Albert Einstein a friend.


    PR's forensic evidence is all over the wine-cellar, despite her denial of ever visiting the location 12/24 or 12/25, so your claim that the staging is for PR is plainly inconsistent.

    I rest my case.


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  26. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    Is there an account somewhere of the Ws party? Was anything ever said about the way PR and JR interacted with each other? I've read a few things about the kids at the party, but I'm curious as to what the other guests said about the Rs.
    There has been very little said about that party on the 23rd. We know that LHP was there earlier that day cleaning and helping Patsy prep, and SHE was the one who took the paint tote to the basement at Patsy's request. It had previously been in the Butler's Pantry, and Patsy planned to put a coat rack in there for her guests. What we DON'T know is whether that paint tote as found by police and photographed in situ just outside the wine cellar door is in the SAME spot that LHP put it on the 23rd. Since Patsy's fibers were found in that tray, and since Patsy denied ever wearing the jacket those fibers came from while in the basement or painting, that would be something that I'd like to know. The party on the 23rd also had something happen which caused JB to cry and say that she "didn't feel pretty". And there was a 911 call made which caused police to come to the house but they were turned away. (Is that even legal?- Where I live police MUST enter a house even when the person answering the door says that they were called by mistake).
    As far as the parents' interaction- nothing was said about the 23rd as far as I know, but there WAS plenty said about the 26th after police and others were at the house. It was said that they had virtually no communication between them- that they were in separate rooms. LE has mentioned that this is SO UNLIKE other kidnapping or child injury-type situations. In a REAL kidnapping, the parents would be expected to comfort each other, or at least be in the same ROOM interacting- there would be some communication between them. Not so with the Rs that day.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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