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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The photos in this link show the terrain on the lakeside of the fence: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...#slide=1238300
    Is the log in photo 10 of 19 in above link to the east of the gate? Any locals know?


  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The photos in this link show the terrain on the lakeside of the fence: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...#slide=1238300
    Good pic in the photo slide showing the gate and jetty from a lake view, but I don't know how to shrink the pic and it totally blows the margins. This was early on and before they had drained the lake. The shoreline does not look too narrow, imo, for a person or a bike to navigate.

    ETA: My bad, I think they did start draining the lake on the 15th. I'll see if I can a link.
    Last edited by hollyblue; 08-04-2012 at 12:01 PM.


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  4. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    That's my guess. I think that's the gate that's next to the drainage pipe. If the gate was unlocked (as has been reported), then the girls could easily have parked their bikes at that location (this is apparently where the bikes were found, leaning against the fence), gone through the gate and then walked east (Elizabeth's purse was 20 feet east of the bikes) towards the forested area with Maiden Lane.
    If the girls bikes were against the roadside fence, 20' from there would have actually been a small toss from the jetty.


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  6. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The photos in this link show the terrain on the lakeside of the fence: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...#slide=1238300
    Found other pic's. Look at photo #15. Is that the gate?


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...#slide=1233332


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  8. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123ABC View Post
    There are 4 seater pedal/paddleboats if you google image of one you will see usually 2 pedal in front 2 ride backwards sitting on bench or in own seats. I just feel this all happened in a close area of theyre disapperance. even in a case that if they were maybe taken & bikes staged would take time. energy & cause a scene. Im just wondering why the FBI keeps saying we want to talk to boater but never heard anymore on this person?? Maybe that person was a lookout person for crime being commited or was paddleboating evidence back to scene. Or even had the girls in the boat??? We havent heard much on this but requests for that person to come forward. If you google bing maps put in myers lake get close to ground you can see a few houses very close to the place where bikes where found. A paddle out would take how long??? Im not sure how far those houses are but the appear a hop jump from the crime scene . there was scent was found also in area where ollipop??Im not sure anymore found car tracks heres ollipop info on webslueth I copied paste lots info..

    I got pics of the "grassy area" mentioned on Nancy Grace (which I'm now watching for the first time - ever), the wooded area, the lift/pump house and its driveway, the view towards the trail from the lift/pump house, a pic of some clear tire tracks leading back towards the lake, and the cleared path mentioned previously. I walked back along that path and took pics of where it led. I also got pics of where the trail crosses Arbutus (just down from the lift/pump house), as well as where it crosses Gilbert one block from the police station while adjacent to a skatepark.

    Those tire tracks were odd. At first I assumed it was some LE or search vehicle, because I know that area had been scoured. But then I got pics of the "grassy parking area" and there is good access to the trail there, as well as the fact that vehicles were easily accessing the back of the lake by using the trail, so why would any vehicle feel the need to completely bushwhack its way thru that underbrush there?

    I got home, double-checked my pics. It was still strange. Too wide to be a Gator, and likely only used one time - not beaten down, just looked like brushy undergrowth that had been recently driven thru. So, eventually, I called the tip-line again. Answered first time this time, took my info, sounded genuinely interested, got my name, number, etc.


    The lake (why go to that area) ? the paddleboater not coming forward?? the Tire tracks seen by ollipop??? GIrls scents up to the lake?? the empty house for sale owned by last name matches facebook friends & possible related or possible not.. Possible boat house on property from bing map? the abduction in cedar falls (5 year boy)by 3 other people a few days ago how many people are running around doing this as part of daily life not alot but one is too many. how many are woman offenders with web tattoo on left hand hah Friend or not if I seen that on yah u bet Id be calling as quick as my fingers could dial that should be broadcast in everystate or on nancy grace or something!! thee.world should be let in on that creature which may lead to children being saved or future children being harmed AND THat might be a lead too :/
    From the very beginning I thought it had to do with the empty house and the boat. Are we sure no one has come forward ( paddle boater)? Maybe LE is keeping it to themselves.


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  10. #276
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    Let me start with an apology for how long this post is and say that I think this group of people is outstanding in both what they do and they way they go about it. Thank God for people like you!

    Here is a theory I haven’t seen discussed and it’s based on two child molesters I know of in real life. The “men” I know of, first the father, molested one of his daughters for years without being caught. He divorced his wife, married another woman who had to girls from a previous marriage and molested both of them (not reported) to authorities. The wife left him and he again married, another woman with a daughter. He molested that daughter and tried to get this girl’s cousin and her to have sexual contact with each other in front of him. Once again, this was kept secret by the family and the wife stayed and the abuser joined the wife’s church, confessed to the minister that he had “impure thoughts” and was forgiven (by the minister) and a prayed for by the minister. He did not die until years later and the wife eventually left him.

    This man’s son married a woman with one daughter from a previous marriage and molested her daughter off and on for a period of years, beginning about age seven or eight. By the time she was sixteen, he got braver and tried to have her call her friend into the bedroom while he made the girl have sexual contact with him. This girl (the friend) did not tell her parents but the mother overheard her phone conversation with another school friend discussing this and laughing nervously. He mother called other mother, told her and advised she was also calling the police. In that case the mother also reported it, moved with-in a few days time and this man went to prison for not nearly long enough. This was before the mandatory registry laws, and though someone else had posted that the law went retroactive to some fifty years, my experience does not find that to be so.

    Having said all of that, here is my loose theory which is MOO. A friend of the families has been abusing his child, grandchild, niece/nephew and had been grooming one or both E and L, having become braver. This person, since he/she was known to the family, could have enticed the girls away from their bikes on the day they went missing with any number of things, including the child he had been molesting. There could have been a vehicle parked in the spot that has been discussed as a possible “parking spot.” With the intent to see what he could get away with, never expecting this to go viral with FBI, CSI and all, he/she could have panicked and had to dispose of the girls.

    Second possible scenario – assuming all of the previous but knowing his victim had told one or both of the girls what he/she had been doing, he/she planned to take them for a ride and have a very scary talk with them about what could happen if they told anyone what his victim had divulged to him/her. Once again, things took off very fast in trying to locate the girls and he/she had to silence them permanently.

    This person could have known the families schedules for that day just by casual conversation with a family member or, more likely, arranged to meet them by the lake or meet his victim by the lake that day.
    The purse being on the opposite side of the fence I haven’t figured out unless this person or his victim knew E had a cell phone that she carried and grabbed her purse and threw it over the fence.

    What do you all think?


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  12. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
    Or Elizabeth could have been forced to throw her purse over the fence by the perp.

    Since she had a cell phone in her purse, she may have known it could dial 911 even though deactivated. If Lyric was accosted by someone who reached out and jerked her off her bicycle as she went by (a lot easier to do than to type), Elizabeth may have fumbled with her purse to get to her phone.

    The perp may have seen her fumble with her purse and ordered her to throw it over the fence. That would put it safely out of her reach quickly.

    Then hustle the two girls to the end of the fence (approximately 100 yards) and into the woods.

    I think this would be the fastest way to get the girls out of sight in the woods. Going up and over the fence would require the perpetrator to maintain control of at least one girl all the way up and over. I think it would be faster to walk the 100 yards briskly than it would be to climb a 6-8 foot fence.

    In assessing whether something is "too risky," it's always important to ask who is assessing the risk. Someone normal or someone who has psychopathy?

    To a psychopath, the salient features would be how quickly or easily something could be done rather than how risky that plan is.
    Just curious why you wouldn't choose going in though the gate and accessing the woods from there? Visibility from across the lake or the nearby lake front properties?


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  14. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnie View Post
    I appreciate all the visual that you post, otto.

    Just to be clear, the photo you are showing of LE on the lakeside of the fence was taken on Tuesday 7/17/2012, the second day into the draining of the lake. So the width of the lake bank they are walking on doesn't represent how it looked the day Lyric and Elizabeth went missing.

    It may be a minor observation on my part, but I think important to those who believe the girls may have walked that bank back towards Maiden Lane.
    Thank you. I was also wondering about what the normal water levels were like. I was comparing those photos to the aerial views and it didn't look the same. I guess that means that the girls would have had to hug the fence to walk in that area with normal water conditions ... which brings me back to wondering if they really went through the gate. At the same time, why would their bikes be parked at the gate if they didn't go through it? I suppose they would have taken the risk of going through the gate and hugging the fence if someone was there with some sort of water craft.

    A paddle boat has been mentioned and many have assumed that means a pedal boat, but where I'm from, paddlers are kayakers and canoeists ... so a paddle boat is anything that uses a paddle.


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  16. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShyViolet View Post
    Thanks for posting those! Is that the gate that was found open in photo 12?
    That's the gate, but we don't know if was standing open when the bikes were found. Wish we did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thinkzerz View Post
    According to this video the family believes the girls were abducted elsewhere and the bikes placed there.

    I truly can't see a perp taking time to stage their bikes. JMO
    I can't either, if it was staged, then, imo, whoever did it wanted the bikes to definitely be found. Even if the perp was a local in the neighborhood with no transportation to take the bikes elsewhere would hide them in the woods. jmo


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  18. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copper View Post
    I don't think the girls came to the lane via paddle boat. Besides the questions I have about using the paddle boat in the first place, looking at Otto's picture, it would seem pretty hard to go from lake to lane without disturbing the ground cover.

    Also, same thing with walking up the lane to whereever a getaway vehicle was waiting. At least one abductor and two girls, seems like ground cover would be matted down enough to leave some trace.

    Any of our locals know, is it all grown over? Are there foot trails that could hide the passage of people coming and going?
    In the Iowa jungle, the underbrush is usually pretty springy. You usually have to push your way through it and it just bends and springs up again behind you.

    Hay fields and suchlike are better for showing the trail of people on foot, particularly in this drought year.

    In the woods, I doubt it.


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  20. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
    I'm thinking that LE was asking about a potential paddleboater in order to confirm witness testimony.

    If one single witness mentioned seeing a paddleboater on the lake that day, I'd sure be interested to find out if the paddleboater existed or not.

    For whatever it is worth, I think of a paddleboat as one of those foot pedalled things. A canoe or kayak is just that, a canoe or kayak. I've never heard of a canoe or kayak referred to as a paddleboat.
    A pedal boat doesn't use a paddle, so why would police mention a paddle boat if they meant a pedal boat. Surely they know the difference. It's possible that police think a boat that needs a paddle was in the area, but they're uncertain whether the boat is a canoe or a kayak. Look up paddlers (even in connection with the olympics) and you arrive at canoes and kayaks.


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  22. #282
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    heres what ive been rolling around in my head:

    mm said that lyric was to text her when she got off work to tell mm where she was.

    why would she need to do that if lyric was going to leave at 1:30 with gramma?

    lyric didnt take the/her phone.

    so, either lyric was going to possibly meet up with her friends somewhere for some reason and then would text mm once she (lyric) had found her friends. she could have borrowed a friends phone if that was the case.... and assuming that ec would either stay with lyric or ride home alone???

    or lyric already knew that she had to be back to leave with gramma, and if that was always the plan then why the need to text mcm to tell her where she was?

    if the bikes were staged, and the girls were never at the lake, i feel that the perp would have to know them well enough to think that the staging area would be realistic otherwise why wouldnt they put the bikes and purse where they may never be found?

    or, its was just a good opportunity to snatch two girls and just leave everything where it fell... ( this seems more likely imo )

    the only thing still really bugging me is lyric needing to text mcm to tell her where she was going to be, as though it could have been more than one expected place...kwim?
    Last edited by nervous_nellie; 08-04-2012 at 12:04 PM.


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  24. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double_GMA View Post
    Let me start with an apology for how long this post is and say that I think this group of people is outstanding in both what they do and they way they go about it. Thank God for people like you!

    Here is a theory I haven’t seen discussed and it’s based on two child molesters I know of in real life. The “men” I know of, first the father, molested one of his daughters for years without being caught. He divorced his wife, married another woman who had to girls from a previous marriage and molested both of them (not reported) to authorities. The wife left him and he again married, another woman with a daughter. He molested that daughter and tried to get this girl’s cousin and her to have sexual contact with each other in front of him. Once again, this was kept secret by the family and the wife stayed and the abuser joined the wife’s church, confessed to the minister that he had “impure thoughts” and was forgiven (by the minister) and a prayed for by the minister. He did not die until years later and the wife eventually left him.

    This man’s son married a woman with one daughter from a previous marriage and molested her daughter off and on for a period of years, beginning about age seven or eight. By the time she was sixteen, he got braver and tried to have her call her friend into the bedroom while he made the girl have sexual contact with him. This girl (the friend) did not tell her parents but the mother overheard her phone conversation with another school friend discussing this and laughing nervously. He mother called other mother, told her and advised she was also calling the police. In that case the mother also reported it, moved with-in a few days time and this man went to prison for not nearly long enough. This was before the mandatory registry laws, and though someone else had posted that the law went retroactive to some fifty years, my experience does not find that to be so.

    Having said all of that, here is my loose theory which is MOO. A friend of the families has been abusing his child, grandchild, niece/nephew and had been grooming one or both E and L, having become braver. This person, since he/she was known to the family, could have enticed the girls away from their bikes on the day they went missing with any number of things, including the child he had been molesting. There could have been a vehicle parked in the spot that has been discussed as a possible “parking spot.” With the intent to see what he could get away with, never expecting this to go viral with FBI, CSI and all, he/she could have panicked and had to dispose of the girls.

    Second possible scenario – assuming all of the previous but knowing his victim had told one or both of the girls what he/she had been doing, he/she planned to take them for a ride and have a very scary talk with them about what could happen if they told anyone what his victim had divulged to him/her. Once again, things took off very fast in trying to locate the girls and he/she had to silence them permanently.

    This person could have known the families schedules for that day just by casual conversation with a family member or, more likely, arranged to meet them by the lake or meet his victim by the lake that day.
    The purse being on the opposite side of the fence I haven’t figured out unless this person or his victim knew E had a cell phone that she carried and grabbed her purse and threw it over the fence.

    What do you all think?
    I think we can all say that the girls were taken for sexual purposes. And i see what your saying that the girls may have been assaulted before this. But why on earth would the girls be willing to go meet someone there, that they know touches them the wrong way?


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  26. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
    I'm thinking that LE was asking about a potential paddleboater in order to confirm witness testimony.

    If one single witness mentioned seeing a paddleboater on the lake that day, I'd sure be interested to find out if the paddleboater existed or not.

    For whatever it is worth, I think of a paddleboat as one of those foot pedalled things. A canoe or kayak is just that, a canoe or kayak. I've never heard of a canoe or kayak referred to as a paddleboat.
    BBM. Exactly, and LE/FBI would be very specific in their description.


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  28. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by nervous_nellie View Post
    heres what ive been rolling around in my head:

    mm said that lyric was to text her when she got off work to tell mm where she was.

    why would she need to do that if lyric was going to leave at 1:30 with gramma?

    lyric didnt take the/her phone.

    so, either lyric was going to possibly meet up with her friends somewhere for some reason and then would text mm once she (lyric) had found her friends. she could have borrowed a friends phone if that was the case.... and assuming that ec would either stay with lyric or ride home alone???

    or lyric already knew that she had to be back to leave with gramma, and if that was always the plan then why the need to text mcm to tell her where she was?

    if the bikes were staged, and the girls were never at the lake, i feel that the perp would have to know them well enough to think that the staging area would be realistic otherwise why wouldnt they put the bikes and purse where they may never be found?

    or, its was just a good opportunity to snatch two girls and just leave everything where it fell... ( this seems more likely imo )

    the only thing still really bugging me is lyric needing to text mcm to tell her where she was going to be, as though is could have been more than one expected place...kwim?

    Maybe Lyric had the option of spending the night with Elizabeth or going home with grandma, in which case, Misty would need to drive home to Waterloo to be with her.


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