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Thread: NC - Fort Bragg soldier PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #10

  1. #401
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    text messages and times

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...nt=1400/thread 9,#1400

    In a Fayetteville Observer article Detective Locklear gives a timeframe but he doesn't specify what each individual time represents.
    He says whatever happened between ______ and ________.

    We still don't know which text was sent at what time. He says the time of 1:24 a.m. was the last time her phone was activated.

    From searching all threads, police haven't officially verified the exact words or any text specific messages but they refer to Kelli's text messages as being important to the investigation.

    Any time assigning to specific text messages is speculation on our part.
    Police have not released the words to any of the text messages.

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  3. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomthought View Post
    That is where the answer lies in this case.In the timeline.KB brother has said on more than one occasion that one of the reasons he does not believe the last two messages were sent by his sister was because the timelines do not match up.Who's timeline does not match up and why.
    Exactly. That's why I'm frustrated that nobody will be accountable for a time. I wasn't there so how would I know?

    It seems to me that, from the beginning, we went with the 1:10-1:20 a.m. timeframe that NH claims to have left the bar and dropped Kelli off near her apt.
    Detectives must have taken NH's word for it (why would they?) because every article states 'Kelli was last seen by NH a rso at 1:20 a.m.'
    on April 14. I can't remember there being a dispute about the stated time being wrong.

    During pressers that's the info they put out. Then LE asked the public to report anything observed around midnight.
    LE never said why or that the last know time anyone besides NH saw Kelli was _______.

    It seems (have to locate the article) that LE has gathered important information from patrons that were in FB that night.
    But also the Det. thinks due to the tone of Kelli's text messages, they shed light on what she was feeling about who she was with
    or something like that.
    How does the 'got home safely' text do that? It doesn't. There has to be texts that they think Kelli did send.
    If she was frightened or not taken straight home and had access to her phone then why wouldn't she text something specific if she could
    like 'help'? If the 'call me ASAP' text is true, it doesn't sound as if she thought she was in imminent danger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chellebelle71 View Post
    You might be onto something. Nobody wants to jeopardize the case and give a defense attorney any chance to push for a mistrial. If they are really stumped on who is to blame, you never know what details may end up being useful.
    I think WS would be a lawyer's dream for both sides. But not if all we do is pick the most likely perp and slam him up against the wall and not expose the weak links as far as evidence goes, as that exercise doesn't model a courtroom.

    They need to have evidence and be prepared with answers when the evidence is attacked. I don't think a defense lawyer (especially one who's just in it to win) needs WS to come up with ideas. But the Prosecution has the burden of proof.

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    If the 'call me ASAP' text is true (no official confirmation or MSM article), I can't reconcile that message with how Kelli new something bad was going to happen. 'Kelli it's me? What's up?' Kelli, 'NH is trying to rape me!' Or, 'I'm being driven away from my apartment.'

    What's the caller supposed to do? Kelli's message should be 'call 911 on Ramsey St.' or 'help me now at FB', etc.

    Call me ASAP seems like she needs to tell J (or whoever) that she spots someone she didn't expect to see. Then, bam, they get her.
    Too bad she wasn't more specific. One can hope that she was I guess.

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    kelli died in the bar due to alcohol or other... and signs of bruises or scratches in consequence of the aggression...

    if kelli had died in the bar, and everyone present had organized the concealment of the corpse, do not believe that nh had done some agreement with the police, to avoid prison, telling the truth? death was accidental! and he is the only person to be blamed for the disappearance.

    if nick killed kelli, certainly was not premeditated murder. No one is stupid enough to kill a person that everyone knows to be in his company. if he does not have any bruises or scratches, I'm sorry to say, but it is a point in his boon.
    if mb killed kelli was certainly premeditated. driving for 7-9 hours round trip through three states. the signal from the phone. no one knew was coming. (I repeat: if it was him! this is just a theory. I do not blame anyone) in this case, he might getting away without any scratch or bruise. all armories sell the electroshock weapon (for example). premeditation. no scratches or bruises.
    I really have no idea what happened. may have been both, or neither...

    one question:
    the witnesses have said that nh has been gone for 10 minutes (to accompany kelli at home), but how long he remained at the bar, after returning? and how his state of mind? nervous, scared, clear?
    If nh is the murderess, he certainly hid the body after that all went away, after the bar closed. 10 minutes, or 20, or 45 ... are relative! for this I am convinced that the body be placed in the north, in some way street that intersects ramsey street... (If nh is the murderess)

    (sorry if there are grammatical errors, but I'm not american and my english is not very good)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I believe in right and wrong. I didn't say I always do the right thing. Is asking a question wrong though? When you do, I give you an answer and you don't acknowledge it. Is that usual for you too?

    Why would telling us what time NH left the bar with Kelli be hindering the investigation? Just tell the truth. LE is looking for witnesses who can tell them the truth to what happened that night. If you know the truth, why not shout it out?

    Makes no sense to me.
    I'm sorry, just got back on, didn't see the question posed to me. I'll go back to look for it. If my brain is fried and I don't see it, I'll let ya know and ask if you'll repeat it for me. Thanks.

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  13. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    If the 'call me ASAP' text is true (no official confirmation or MSM article), I can't reconcile that message with how Kelli new something bad was going to happen. 'Kelli it's me? What's up?' Kelli, 'NH is trying to rape me!' Or, 'I'm being driven away from my apartment.'

    What's the caller supposed to do? Kelli's message should be 'call 911 on Ramsey St.' or 'help me now at FB', etc.

    Call me ASAP seems like she needs to tell J (or whoever) that she spots someone she didn't expect to see. Then, bam, they get her.
    Too bad she wasn't more specific. One can hope that she was I guess.
    well texting who she was with and how she felt about was going on sounds like she got pretty specific to me.
    Everybody cooperates,but nobody talks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    reedus23 posted

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...nt=1132/thread 9,#1132

    It wouldn't matter if you paid closer attention to who was in Florida where and when.

    I'm almost done going through all the posts and for some reason the most seemingly innocuous information cannot be revealed to the public.
    I find the secretive nature of any and all details to be off-putting and part of the reason MB continues to be scrutinized.

    Also details surrounding Kelli's previous visits to FB are mentioned but no details are ever given - like did she come in on Wednesday night or what?

    The whole secretiveness thing is really getting to me.
    Even LE - you'd think they could be more specific when asking if anybody saw anything along Ramsey Street around midnight.

    This is really bringing me down that Kelli just disappeared like she did and no one can figure out who is responsible.

    The times given out by Locklear, again without stating the specific reason they are important, caused me to lean in NH's direction. But then,
    VOH (who is bugging me too ), claims that NH had no bodily injuries when s/he saw him on Saturday. From what people say about Kelli, she'd put up a fight. Did Mike have any wounds when Olivia saw him on Monday?

    One of my theories is that Kelli collapsed in the bar from alcohol poisoning or something and they put NH in charge of hiding her body. Her body may be the one that was found behind the vacant building as that's the same direction her phone last pinged at 1:24 a.m. on April 14.

    Another thought is that a group of bikers may have pulled into Froggy's around midnight and ganged up on Kelli 45 minutes later. Det. Locklear may want to know if anybody witnessed them riding into FB.
    I'm not sure if it was a question directed at me or no but when I saw that, I actually had laughed at myself about how many times I've gone back and forth on this case. I think I had said it before, not sure anymore, but the timing wouldn't be as much of a problem if MB was last confirmed in Florida earlier in the day Friday or if the 3 p.m. conversation showed he was somewhere already in between Florida and NC. I understand and respect the fact that from a possibility factor, the distance/timing is possible.

    Regarding the second question, I have no idea what days she had gone to FB.

    On the third bold, to answer the question, I don't know but I would like to know. I would hope LE knows one way or the other.

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    I don't think VOH is "not allowed" to talk about the case, VOH has declined to give out information that he feels is not his business to give out and/or that he believes is part of LE's investigation that has not been made public.

    I have some perspective on VOH's side: I wasn't a case insider like VOH, but I sort of became one in a case I followed in my area that got resolved last year. I had come to be friends with several of the witnesses in the 2 years before the trial and eventually got to know the victim's family. I learned some facts about the case early in the trial that either weren't public at the time (or were never made public).

    I chose to keep a very clear boundary. For the longest time I only knew what the public knew. It wasn't that I didn't care or wasn't curious about the case (I totally was), but I made it a point not to ask questions or talk about the case when I socialized with them because I assumed they couldn't answer and I didn't want to put anyone in an awkward situation. Plus, adding to anyone's pain was not something I ever wanted to do. I figured I'd learn the details when the case got litigated. I had to be patient. Yes, it was hard. Plus, most of them knew or learned I was a member of WS, and that could have been very awkward (to say the least). Respecting people's privacy is one of my core beliefs, so I kept my mouth shut and kept my WS life and real life separate. It's not something I discussed with them, it's just what I felt was the right thing to do and it's how I'd want to be treated if I were ever in that painful situation, so that's how I conducted myself. It's something I'm really glad I did.

    Sooo to bring it back to VOH and the KB case...I do get where VOH is coming from. As a non-insider and bystander I of course want to know everything and wish VOH would tell more of what he knows. But I do understand the dilemma.

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  18. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I believe in right and wrong. I didn't say I always do the right thing. Is asking a question wrong though? When you do, I give you an answer and you don't acknowledge it. Is that usual for you too?

    Why would telling us what time NH left the bar with Kelli be hindering the investigation? Just tell the truth. LE is looking for witnesses who can tell them the truth to what happened that night. If you know the truth, why not shout it out?

    Makes no sense to me.
    There is no right or wrong as far as theories on the case go. I think I poorly worded an earlier post. To answer your question, asking isn't wrong. I probably shouldn't have answered for VOH.

    If I knew the truth and LE asked me not to talk to the media or others about it, I would probably not shout it out. The important thing to me is if they're shouting it out to LE, not to me here, as much as I may wish they would. Regarding how it could hinder the investigation, I would guess that LE's position would be that the more the perp is in the dark as to what LE knows, the better. Also, by keeping certain facts quiet, if the perp slips up and mentions it he has no explanation for knowing that fact. LE loses that advantage if information is released. Keeping it quiet also allows them to weed out tips. Lets say LE knew for a fact that NH left at 1:00 and someone calls in and says that they saw NH driving with Kelli at 12:00, they would know that that tip is not credible. Whereas if they had released that information that tipster may have changed the time to 1:00 to fit what LE released. Just some thoughts off the top of my head AND I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR BEFORE IT GETS TURNED INTO A RUMOR AND THEN MORPHED INTO FACT...THE TIMES ARE PURELY HYPOTHETICAL TO TRY TO ANSWER A QUESTION. The caps are just attention grabbing, not yelling. Just my thoughts to your questions posed.

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  20. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    Who is causing a black and white perspective? Honestly.

    You've got the wrong person. It's not me.
    I know. That's why I said it wasn't meant to be singling anyone person out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I think WS would be a lawyer's dream for both sides. But not if all we do is pick the most likely perp and slam him up against the wall and not expose the weak links as far as evidence goes, as that exercise doesn't model a courtroom.

    They need to have evidence and be prepared with answers when the evidence is attacked. I don't think a defense lawyer (especially one who's just in it to win) needs WS to come up with ideas. But the Prosecution has the burden of proof.
    Couldn't agree more and that is what I think Websleuths is so good at doing. Alot of what lawyers do in preparing for trial is what we do here on Websleuths. They put a theory of the case together and then try to poke holes in it, looking for the weak points, places they need evidence to shore up the case. Much like we do here when discussing different theories. So yes, I think WS would be a lawyer's dream.

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  23. #413
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    The lawyers have one decided advantage over WS case followers (well, more than 1 actually): They know what all the evidence is and they get all (or most) of the discovery.

    By the time a defense attorney is brought in and after an arrest on a charge, the defendant's attorney gets to see everything the state has against their client. The state, of course, already has seen all the evidence.

    When they poke holes they know exactly what the troublesome areas are, what are the weak spots of the opponent's case, and what they've got to prove their side of the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fstasi View Post
    kelli died in the bar due to alcohol or other... and signs of bruises or scratches in consequence of the aggression...

    if kelli had died in the bar, and everyone present had organized the concealment of the corpse, do not believe that nh had done some agreement with the police, to avoid prison, telling the truth? death was accidental! and he is the only person to be blamed for the disappearance.

    if nick killed kelli, certainly was not premeditated murder. No one is stupid enough to kill a person that everyone knows to be in his company. if he does not have any bruises or scratches, I'm sorry to say, but it is a point in his boon.
    if mb killed kelli was certainly premeditated. driving for 7-9 hours round trip through three states. the signal from the phone. no one knew was coming. (I repeat: if it was him! this is just a theory. I do not blame anyone) in this case, he might getting away without any scratch or bruise. all armories sell the electroshock weapon (for example). premeditation. no scratches or bruises.
    I really have no idea what happened. may have been both, or neither...

    one question:
    the witnesses have said that nh has been gone for 10 minutes (to accompany kelli at home), but how long he remained at the bar, after returning? and how his state of mind? nervous, scared, clear?
    If nh is the murderess, he certainly hid the body after that all went away, after the bar closed. 10 minutes, or 20, or 45 ... are relative! for this I am convinced that the body be placed in the north, in some way street that intersects ramsey street... (If nh is the murderess)

    (sorry if there are grammatical errors, but I'm not american and my english is not very good)
    Your grammar was probably better than mine. Thanks. The fact NH knew others knew he was leaving with Kelli does cut against him being the perp. There are so many things that cut for and against each of them and thus my frustration and fence sitting.

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    To be fair though, while people knew NH was Kelli's ride home on that Fri night, Kelli wasn't expected anywhere in particular on Sat or Sun. She wasn't reported missing until Monday (afternoon). The perp could have thought (or assumed) that no one would notice Kelli missing until a few days had passed. The last text sent from Kelli's phone appears to be an attempt to take attention away from the Fri night timeframe. Afterall, if she "got home safely" and went missing after that, it would have nothing to do with who she was with on Fri night.

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  29. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    To be fair though, while people knew NH was Kelli's ride home on that Fri night, Kelli wasn't expected anywhere in particular on Sat or Sun. She wasn't reported missing until Monday (afternoon). The perp could have thought (or assumed) that no one would notice Kelli missing until a few days had passed. The last text sent from Kelli's phone appears to be an attempt to take attention away from the Fri night timeframe. Afterall, if she "got home safely" and went missing after that, it would have nothing to do with who she was with on Fri night.
    if is true that mb phoned kelli during the weekend, this makes him the worst husband in the world! sorry but it's true!.. there is a serial rapist that strikes in the area where his wife lives... he calls her on saturday (and kelli doesn't respond), he calls her sunday (and kelli still doesn't respond). and nothing. he doesn't call a friend, an acquaintance, a neighbor, a colleague of work, the police to do a simple control...
    the kidnapper or kidnappers, the murderess or killers could know kelli had no commitments for that weekend, but they couldn't know that she would have been completely ignored for two days.

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  31. #417
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    "Couldn't agree more and that is what I think Websleuths is so good at doing. Alot of what lawyers do in preparing for trial is what we do here on Websleuths. They put a theory of the case together and then try to poke holes in it, looking for the weak points, places they need evidence to shore up the case. Much like we do here when discussing different theories. So yes, I think WS would be a lawyer's dream. "


    Sorry I didn't intend to suggest otherwise. For example, with the recent CO shootings- his medical information shouldn't have been released. I haven't followed up on that detail in particular, but in the beginning I heard some chatter about his lawyer spinning that in his favor.

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    Meanwhile.... I see posted on the news thread for Kelli
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/new...ply&p=8276161:

    Quote Originally Posted by summer_breeze View Post
    http://www.ncnn.com/edit-news/8144-v...ing-army-medic

    Saturday - August 18, 2012
    Written by Josh Zach

    Short article at link
    Wonder what the progress is that is mentioned, or is it just so many words...
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

    Rule-of-Three (click to visit blog)

    Red Flags When Spouse Goes Missing (click to visit blog)

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    Well, the FPD PR person could be fluffing for the media to give the impression that they are making progress. Detectives actually traveled to Florida 3 months ago. So, now, when he says that they traveled to Florida in essence he is telling the truth.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Meanwhile.... I see posted on the news thread for Kelli
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/new...ply&p=8276161:



    Wonder what the progress is that is mentioned, or is it just so many words...

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  36. #420
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    Bumping for Kelli...

    It's so quiet here all of the sudden :/

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    Being relatively new here, I have really come to be frustrated with the lack of detail on things that are even reported on. I don't know whether to read the most recent article to mean LE made a second trip to Florida or if they are referring to the original trip. I would be interested to know if this is a second trip that was made. Is it a matter of LE keeping things close to the vest or MSM not thinking to ask the follow up questions?

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  40. #422
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    News articles can often be confusing or vague. Most articles have the name of the person who wrote it listed underneath. Best way to get clarity is to email the writer directly and ask them your question. Many will write back and answer and some will even update their original article to make the context more clear. Worth a shot!

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  42. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by parker38 View Post
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this is very unfair. Intelligence
    or lack thereof has nothing to do with this crime as others will point
    out. His lack of skills tells me he didn't come from a great background and
    worked with what was given him. And that is sad.
    He made a mistake long ago. Maybe he's sorry maybe he's not, doesn't
    matter. At least HE came forward to tell about the night in question.
    More than someone else did at all. Someone who has no backbone,
    lacks integrity, rides on someone's coat tails and thus I give he/she
    0 points.

    His lies were told to try and show people he was good at things. He
    has issues and should not be looked down upon for them.

    I have no knowledge of torque punches either. Might be a lot of people that don't. I don't believe it's a big deal or will help bring Kelli back who's
    gone by the hands of another.
    This upsets me and has nothing to do with her missing.

    If I've come across rude, I apologize. It just opened up my own can
    of worms throught out my life. Difference was I never lied about myself.
    Maybe it's different with men and egos. IDK
    I agree that his intelligence has nothing to do with the crime. I answered a question I felt comfortable answering because I did not think it would hinder anything. It is also not the first time I have mentioned NH's dishonesty about who he actually was. I was using the torque punch technique as an example of evidence against his lies. Someone with the martial arts experience he had claimed to have would have at least heard of the technique if not been familiar with it. I don't think you were rude either.

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  44. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowes123 View Post
    And from what voh says, he wasn't very strong. Soldiers have to do pt every morning, so she would have been in very good shape. I would think whoever did it would have some significant bruising, cuts, ect.
    I haven't really commented on his strength. When I mentioned the 11 - it was more so because he slipped when making the punch - but my reason for it was because it was actually just a memory for me. Something I had to get out if that makes sense?

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  46. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I believe in right and wrong. I didn't say I always do the right thing. Is asking a question wrong though? When you do, I give you an answer and you don't acknowledge it. Is that usual for you too?

    Why would telling us what time NH left the bar with Kelli be hindering the investigation? Just tell the truth. LE is looking for witnesses who can tell them the truth to what happened that night. If you know the truth, why not shout it out?

    Makes no sense to me.
    I haven't been told not to say anything by anyone. I am using my judgment. If the police have not yet released information that has been specifically asked by the media, who am I to go ahead and release that information? I have placed faith in the PD in bringing justice for Kelli. I have enough questioning of "What if I had given her a ride home?" that I don't need to add more of "What if I hadn't released those details?" I am very willing to share what I have deemed non-important on LE's tactic (whatever it may be). I have told the police EVERYTHING I know and then some. In addition, when friends have told me things - like areas to check, etc, I have convinced those friends to contact LE and tell them the information. Sometimes shouting the truth doesn't help the case. At the same time, I won't lie either. Hope this helps to clarify things.

    And just so everyone knows, I do not feel anyone is attacking me. I can understand everyone's frustration because I feel it too. I know we all have the same cause here - to find Kelli and see justice embraced. I pray that one day we will.


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