Rebecca's Death

time said:

jjeny ... interestingly, it appears something about Rebecca came from Dina herself. Read Dr. Melenik's report on the other thread I started about jiujitsu. :waitasec:

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Wikipedia Quote:

..."Brazilian Jiu Jitsu promotes the concept that a smaller, weaker person can successfully defend against a bigger, stronger assailant by using leverage and proper technique – most notably by applying joint-locks and chokeholds to defeat the other person. BJJ training can be used for sport grappling tournaments (gi and no-gi) and mixed martial arts (MMA)."

Would it be possible that a perpetrator with advanced knowledge that Rebecca had Jui Jitsu training then planned an ambush and knocked her unconscious before she ever knew what hit her?

That would explain Rebecca's head wounds and why she was tied up.

Imo, she was probably unconscious when and then she woke up tied/taped to the chair.

She may have only had time to let out only one scream before she went unconscious, imo.

freespeech said:

Wikipedia Quote:

..."Brazilian Jiu Jitsu promotes the concept that a smaller, weaker person can successfully defend against a bigger, stronger assailant by using leverage and proper technique – most notably by applying joint-locks and chokeholds to defeat the other person. BJJ training can be used for sport grappling tournaments (gi and no-gi) and mixed martial arts (MMA)."

Would it be possible that a perpetrator with advanced knowledge that Rebecca had Jui Jitsu training then planned an ambush and knocked her unconscious before she ever knew what hit her?

That would explain Rebecca's head wounds and why she was tied up.

Imo, she was probably unconscious when and then she woke up tied/taped to the chair.

She may have only had time to let out only one scream before she went unconscious, imo.

Click to expand...

Well, I think that is possible. I wouldn't doubt someone hit her on the head to disable her (or knock her out) and then either tried to strangle her (was there some indication she had marks not attributed to the hanging) or just went ahead and tied her up and lowered her over the balcony.

Please discuss the facts, reports, theories, speculation, etc. about Rebecca's death here.

Thanks,

Salem

IMO it's almost impossible to discuss RZ's death without a crossover to MS's death. It seems MS's death is the catalyst/motive for the entire thing.
However, there seems to be only two options on the table - murder or suicide. Murder seems more likely given the manner of death (and the one I personally believe). Suicide seems nearly an impossiblity.
Could a third option be possible? Could RZ have been tied up, questioned, abused, noosed and left alive in that back bedroom/patio? Could she have been left in a manner that she chose to go over that railing - not from guilt, but fear and at great instigation?
Just throwing it out there...

I posted this on another thread, but this seems more appropriate. I have also done an advanced search and can't find any information.

Item #11 is a "Document addressed to Jonah." I can't find any information stating what this was.

Was this "document" ever discussed in Rebecca's family investigation? What was in the document?

Thanks for any help you can give.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

The 45 items taken include:
1. Knife
2. Pair black gloves
3. Paper towel w/red stains
4. Box w/paint supplies
5. Dr. Pepper bottle
6. Clothing
7. Flip camera
8. Basket w/cameras
9. Stain kit
10. Clump of hair
11. Document addressed to Jonah
12. Tissue w/red stain
13. Clothing
14. Hair
15. Receipt for paint supplies

Click to expand...

Rebecca Zahau Timeline

Around May 30 (Memorial Day) – Jonah and Rebecca relocate to the Spreckels Mansion for the summer

Approximately June 28th – About two weeks before July 11 Jonah’s older children arrive for their scheduled two-week visit.

July 10th – Xena Zahau Rebecca’s little sister arrives for a scheduled 2 week visit. July 11th (early) – Max and Jonah drive Max’s two older half-siblings (Jonah’s older kids by Kimberly) to the airport for their prearranged scheduled flight to meet up with their mother in Phoenix.

July 11th – mid morning Jonah walks/runs to the gym for a workout. July 11th – at about 10:00 AM Max’s fall from the 2nd floor to the foyer happens. Rebecca was in one bathroom. Xena had gone upstairs to take a shower. Rebecca screams for Xena to call 911 (she does at 10:10). Rebecca attempts CPR. Coronado PD arrive at 10:12. Rebecca claims that Max whispered “Ocean” the name of the dog in the house and then became unresponsive. The documents say that they found Max on his back, a razor scooter resting on his right shin, a soccer ball in the foyer and Ocean sitting on the landing. A broken chandelier laid shattered near Max’s left shoulder. July 11th at 10:24 AM. Rebecca calls Jonah at the gym to tell him about Max’s fall and he runs home in time to see Max being loaded into the ambulance. July 11th at 10:24 AM. Rebecca calls Jonah at the gym to tell him about Max’s fall and he runs home in time to see Max being loaded into the ambulance. July 11th – Jonah follows ambulance to Sharp Coronado emergency dept where max arrives at 10:36 AM. July 11th – Max is transferred from Sharp Coronado emergency dept to Rady Children’s pediatric intensive care unit. July 11th – police attempt to locate Dina Shacknai (Max’s mom) and eventually find her. Dina arrives at Rady’s Hospital at 2:00 PM. July 11th – Xena apparently cuts herself trying to help clean up the shattered glass from the chandelier. A police officer drivers Xena and Rebecca to a local urgent care to have 4 stitches in her leg. July 11th – at some point in the afternoon Rebecca picks up Dina’s twin sister Nina from the airport. July 11th – Howard Luber Jonah’s friend from PV Arizona also arrives some time on Monday.

July 12th – Ted Greenberg, owner of Camp Diggity Dog, said Zahau called the Coronado kennel last Monday, shortly after the boy’s fall, to ask that someone pick up her 14 month-old Weimaraner, Ocean. She said her child was hospitalized after an injury. July 11th – Jonah returns home in the “early evening hours” to shower and pack some clothes for the hospital. July 11th – Xena spends the night with Rebecca in Coronado. July 12th – at 1:55 AM Jonah attempts to stay at the Ronald McDonald House but it is full. He stays at a nearby hotel instead, the Homestead Inn. July 12th – Jonah returns to the hospital at approx 5:30-6:00 AM. July 12th – around 8:00 AM Dina leaves the hospital. She goes back home and spends about 12 hours resting. July 12th – Tuesday morning at about 8:45 AM Ocean is picked up and taken to the kennel. According to the kennel owner Ted Greenberg. July 12th – Arrangements are made for Xena to go back home. Rebecca drives her to the airport. July 12th – Adam Shacknai is picked up by Rebecca at the airport. He has flown in to support his brother during this tremendously horrible time. July 12th – approx 6:00 PM Adam and Rebecca pick up Jonah and Howard from the hospital. They drop Howard off at the airport. Jonah, Rebecca and Adam then get some dinner. July 12th – Dina returns to the hospital between 6:00 PM and 8:00 PM. ** a discrepancy in the time Dina returned to the hospital. Detectives are told by Dina 8:00 PM and Jonah tells them 6:00 PM**

July 12th – 7:09 PM incoming call from urgent care facility checking on Xena. July 12th – 7:34 PM outgoing 1 min phone call to Jonah. July 12th – 7:39 PM incoming 1 min phone call from Adam. July 12th – After dinner Jonah returns to the hospital at about 8:00 PM. Dina is still there. July 12th – at approx 8:00 PM Rebecca and Adam return home to Coronado mansion. July 12th – 8:06 PM outgoing 27 min phone call to sister MaryJuly 12th – 8:33 PM incoming 3 min phone call from Mary July 12th – 2 text messages out to Jonah @ 8:41 PM July 12th – text message in from Jonah @ 8:43 PM July 12th – 9:25 PM outgoing 1 min phone call to Mary July 12th – text message out to Mary @ 9:40 PM July 12th – text message out to Mary @ 9:42 PM July 12th – text message in from Mary @ 9:44 PM July 12th – 2 text messages out to Mary @ 9:48 PM July 12th – text message in from Mary @ 9:52 PM July 12th – text message in from Mary @ 9:53 PM July 12th – text message out to Mary @ 9:53 PM

July 12th – text message in from Nina @ 10:41 PM asking if she can drop by to talk about “what happened” to Max. Rebecca never responds.

July 12th – 11:30 PM anonymous “sources” claim to hear someone scream “help” from or near the mansion.

July 13 – 12:30 AM Jonah claims he sent a voicemail message to Rebecca stating that Max’s condition was grave and his death was imminent.

July 13th – 12:50 AM allegedly Rebecca retrieves the voicemail message and deletes it. [there is no proof that Rebecca herself retrieved and deleted the voicemail]

July 13th – at about 1:00 AM Jonah goes to the Ronald McDonald House.

July 13th – Adam Shacknai said he awoke at approx 6:30 AM and made his way to the main house. He saw Rebecca hanging, ran to the kitchen to find a knife, pulled a table underneath her and cut her down. He claims the shirt was covering her mouth so he removed it in order to try to perform CPR as instructed to do by the 911 dispatch (told him to take the gag out of her mouth).

July 13th – 6:48 AM 911 is called. Adam stating he found Rebecca and was attempting CPR.

July 13th – Coronado Police Dept are the first to respond. Unable to locate a pulse they began CPR. Coronado Fire Dept arrived at 6:54 AM Rebecca was cold to the touch and rigor mortis was present in her jaw. They pronounced Rebecca deceased. They quickly decide they do not have the resources to deal with a homicide and call in San Diego County to help. The ME is called at 8:09 AM. SDSO arrives at approx 9:20 AM. July 13th – at about 6:48 AM Jonah claims he received a text message from Adam advising Rebecca had hung herself. July 13th – at about 7:00 AM Dina who was at Max’s bedside received a call from Jonah telling her Rebecca had killed herself. July 13th – Jonah returns to the hospital at approx 7:00 AM. July 13th – Jonah calls Rebecca’s sister Mary, but reaches her husband Doug instead. Jonah informs him that Rebecca has killed herself. July 13th – Adam Shacknai is interviewed by Detectives Lebitski and Hillen. July 13th – Attorney Paul Pfingst shows up at the mansion, won’t say who he’s representing, but does say it’s not Jonah. July 13th – Later Adam is given a polygraph examination by Paul Redden. Redden says he couldn’t draw a conclusion. He recommends that Adam be given a 2nd test but was never asked by SDSO to do the follow up. July 13th – Special Agents Resendiz and Burtis from the DOJ interview Dina. She tells the agents she left Rady Hospital on the 12th at about 8:00 AM and returned at 8:00 PM. July 13th – Jonah Shacknai is interviewed by Detectives Norton and Palmer. July 13th – at 7:15 PM 13 hours after Rebecca’s body is discovered the ME finally arrives. They determine Rebecca’s death to be somewhere between 1:00 AM and 3:00 AM.

July 14th – Rebecca’s autopsy is performed at 10:18 AM.(results are sealed). July 14th – Shacknai’s contact LE and inform them that Max has become very bad and is most likely not going to live.

July 15th – Jonah Shacknai is re-interviewed by Detective Norton. He tells them he left the hospital on the 12th at about 6:00 PM and that Dina had returned to the hospital around 6:00 PM.

July 16th – Max Shacknai passes away brain death. Pronounced July 16th at 11:30 PM. July 16th – Nina returns home July 16th – Jonah calls Ted Greenberg, the owner of Camp Diggity Dogs. He advises that he’s sending someone to pick up the 14 month old Weimaraner Ocean. He thanks Greenberg for all that he had done.

July 17th – Jonah and Dina release a joint statement that Max has passed away. July 17th – Jonah and Dina have authorized organ donation, procurement at 6:00 AM. 3 children benefit greatly from receipt of these organs.

July 18th – Max autopsy performed at 10:22 AM (results are sealed). July 19th – A private memorial service is held for Max.

July 21st – Jonah hires L.A. PR company Sitrick & Co. July 23rd – Rebecca is laid to rest in St. Joseph Missouri. Jonah attends the funeral. Aug 8th – Jonah speaks publicly for the 1st time, thanks shareholders for their support during a Medicis conference call—–says he “expects very quickly to return to the normal work schedule at the office” in a couple of weeks once his children are back in school.

Aug 15th – LE states they power Rebecca’s cell phone on for the first time (however there are data transfers on dates prior to this date).

Aug 24th – LE requests permission, receives and executes search warrants for cell phone records for two phones owned by Jonah Shacknai. It assumed they belong to Dina and Jonah. LE receives these records the same day.

Aug 31st – LE conducts first and only interview with Rebecca’s sister, Mary.

Sept 2nd – LE conducts press conference. They declare Rebecca’s death a suicide and the case closed. Max’s death is declared an accident.

Sept 3rd – Rebecca’s family strongly disputes LE’s “iron-clad” closed case. Family hires attorney Anne Bremner who plans on putting together information to send to the AG requesting the investigation be re-opened.

Sept 5th – Dr. Cyril Wecht, pathologist, and expert consulting with the family attorney Anne Bremner, says ‘a number of factors in the autopsy ruling do not add up’. He strongly questions the 4 subgaleal hemorrhages to the scalp, saying in his opinion they are evidence of blunt force trauma, therefore there was a struggle. He would classify the manner of death as “undetermined”.

Sept 6th – Jonah’s attorney Dan K. Webb sends a “cease and desist” letter to Anne Bremner, to stop making false public statements that ‘have the effect of severely damaging Jonah’s personal and business reputations’.

Sept 19th – Jonah Shacknai writes a letter to the CA Attorney General requesting a review of the findings that Zahau had killed herself.

Sept 20th – Sheriff Bill Gore releases a statement regarding Jonah’s letter to the Attorney General. He states he believes a thorough and professional investigation was conducted.

Sept 21st – Sheriff’s Homicide Lieutenant Larry Nesbit announces they will take another look at Zahau’s Samsung Focus Windows Phone using newly-identified, forensic software. Technological programs that were not available during the initial investigation. Sept 21st – A letter from CA Attorney General declines Jonah Shacknai’s request for a review.

Sept 22nd – SDSO releases statement respecting the decision of the Attorney General. Sept 22nd – A search warrant unsealed revealed that the head of the Intensive Care Unit at Rady Children’s Hospital, Dr. Bradley Peterson, initially believed his patient, Max Shacknai, may have been suffocated before he fell down the stairs. In Max’s autopsy report, the medical examiner disagreed and determined the boy’s injuries were consistent with an accidental neck injury sustained in the fall.

Oct 6th – Homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit said it was not possible to recover deleted data from Zahau’s phone without dismantling the device, something investigators did not want to do. As a result, no new information was obtained from the re examination. Oct 6th – Lt. Nesbit said the intact cell phone and other items belonging to the victim will be returned “in about one week” to the Zahau family attorney, Anne Bremner. The Seattle-based lawyer wants the cell phone and evidence in the case turned over as soon as possible.



from: http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/RZ/rztimeline.pdf

Tink56 said:

I posted this on another thread, but this seems more appropriate. I have also done an advanced search and can't find any information.

Item #11 is a "Document addressed to Jonah." I can't find any information stating what this was.

Was this "document" ever discussed in Rebecca's family investigation? What was in the document?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Click to expand...

Tink56, I don't recall ever hearing anywhere that that information was released. I wonder if AB had access to the investigator's report about it.

Anne Rule's book is coming out in September. I wonder if the Zahaus provided her with any inside information about the investigative reports. I'm also wondering if those reports can be obtained under the FOIA. I don't know so I'm just asking.

freespeech said:

Tink56, I don't recall ever hearing anywhere that that information was released. I wonder if AB had access to the investigator's report about it.

Anne Rule's book is coming out in September. I wonder if the Zahaus provided her with any inside information about the investigative reports. I'm also wondering if those reports can be obtained under the FOIA. I don't know so I'm just asking.

Click to expand...

I am quite sure the Z family gave Anne Rule all kinds of 'insider' info for the book. And seeing as how Anne Rule is very good friends with AB, it will not be very objective, imo. It will be like a PR press tour for AB, imo.

I predict that it will be slanted hard against the Shacknai family and will be very pro-Rebecca.

As a first grader, I used to walk home from school with a friend. That walk took us over a concrete overpass..where a small creek ran between more concrete far below. My little friend and I, at 6 years old, thought maybe fairies lived down there. We would try to peek through the openings in the overpass. One day there were some older girls on the overpass. One of them picked me up and held me by my ankles...dangling me head-first over the concrete below. My Mother had been walking to meet me and saw the incident take place.

I don't think these girls were malicious or meant me harm...they were just immature. Maybe they thought they were giving me a better look. But a fall from that overpass onto the concrete below would have been as deadly as that of Max.

RZ was downstairs. Her sister and Max upstairs. Has RZ's statement to police been released with details of the incident?

While neither death is fully "understood," there remains a mysterious set of events, witness reports, and seemingly odd behavior occurring on Tuesday evening, July 12, at the Spreckles Mansion.

• AS and RZ return home from hospital and dinner
  -RZ has many text conversations on her cell
  -What did AS do?
• NR states she went to the mansion around 10PM
  -But her text to RZ is at 10:41PM
  -NR states she went to the Mansion but was unable to make contact with RZ
  -Did NR attempt to make contact with AS, who was on the property?
  -Why doesn't NR at least contact AS to see if he is with RZ?
  -Did NR visit Mansion and then for some reason text RZ afterwards instead of before? Odd, but this would justify her visit
• AB states witness see's a woman at Mansion that night and she doesn't resemble RN but DS?
  -Could both DS and NR been there at same time withone proceeding the other?
  -Could it be that only after DS noted to NR that someone may have seen her that NR subsequently sends a text to RZ knowing that it is to justify the visit which has now turned deadly?
  -How does AS tie into all this?
  -Where was he?
  -Why did he hear nothing? Remember, Coronado is a quiet neighborhood and even with windows shut you can hear your neighbor.
  -Why would NR not contact AS? Yes - stated here again since it is not logical
  -Really, where was DS? With her cell or not?
• Neighbor heard a scream, yes it could be from the beach or kids near the Dell, or neighbors a few houses down, or it could have been from the Mansion!
• There is *advertiser censored* on RZ computer, not an issue in itself but...
  -Apparently, AS was looking at *advertiser censored* on his cell that night
  -The *advertiser censored* on RZ computer was apparently bondage
  -Did RZ and JS practice bondage, was it a fetish, or was it not related to RZ or JS; but instead setup by killer to make it look like it something they were into?
• Then you get to message on door - who knows what that means? But, the way DS is portrayed...it sounds like RZ saving JS from DS
• Wendy101 thanks for reminding me - why was dog taken to kennel! No one was planning to leave the property? RZ probably knew she wasnt welcome at hospital - so why remove the dog from the house? I expect this decision would NOT have been RZ's but JS - so he should have provided a response - but then again maybe no LE asked?

Why was the dog taken prior to Rebecca's death, the Jonah called for the dog to be picked up the day Maxie died?
was the dog taken so that it wouldn't bark while Rebecca was being murdered?
who told Rebecca to take the dog?

Just Checking said:

While neither death is fully "understood," there remains a mysterious set of events, witness reports, and seemingly odd behavior occurring on Tuesday evening, July 12, at the Spreckles Mansion.

• AS and RZ return home from hospital and dinner
  
  ​
• RZ has many text conversations on her cell
  
  ​
• What did AS do?
• NR states she went to the mansion around 10PM
  
  ​
• But her text to RZ is at 10:41PM
  
  ​
• She states she went to the Mansion but was unable to make contact with RZ
  
  ​
• Did she attempt to make contact with AS, who was on the property?
  
  ​
• Why doesnt she at least contact AS to see if he is with RZ?
  
  ​
• Does she visit house first than text RZ? Odd, but this would justify her visit
• AB states witness see's a woman at Mansion that night and she doesn't resemble RN but DS?
  
  ​
• Could both DS and NR been there at same time withone proceeding the other?
  
  ​
• Could it be that only after DS noted to NR that someone may have seen her that NR subsequently sends a text to RZ knowing that it is to justify the visit which has now turned deadly?
• How does AS tie into all this?
  
  ​
• Where was he?
  
  ​
• Why did he hear nothing? Remember, Coronado is not a quiet neighborhood and even with windows shut you can hear your neighbor.
  
  ​
• Why would NR not contact AS? Yes - stated here again since it is not logical
• Really, where was DS? With her cell or not?
• Neighbor heard a scream, yes it could be from the beach or kids near the Dell, or neighbors a few houses down, or it could have been from the Mansion!
• There is *advertiser censored* on RZ computer, not an issue in itself but...
• Apparently, AS was looking at *advertiser censored* on his cell that night
• The *advertiser censored* on RZ computer was apparently bondage
• Did RZ and JS practice bondage, was it a fetish, or was it not related to RZ or JS; but instead setup by killer to make it look like it something they were into?
  [*] Then you get to message on door - who knows what that means? But, the way DS is portrayed...it sounds like RZ saving JS from DS
• Wendy101 thanks for reminding me - why was dog taken to kennel! No one was planning to leave the property? RZ probably knew she wasnt welcome at hospital - so why remove the dog from the house? I expect this decision would NOT have been RZ's but JS - so he should have provided a response - but then again maybe no LE asked?

Click to expand...

This does makes sense.

Tink56 said:

I posted this on another thread, but this seems more appropriate. I have also done an advanced search and can't find any information.

Item #11 is a "Document addressed to Jonah." I can't find any information stating what this was.

Was this "document" ever discussed in Rebecca's family investigation? What was in the document?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Click to expand...

Interesting find and I'm also curious to find out what it was ~

I don't understand the 12 hour gap (8 am to 8 pm) on 7/13 when Dina was not at hospital. Also not being able to reach her from 10:20 am until 2 pm on the day of Max's fall.

Makes no sense to me....a grieving Mother...my Mom spent 1 week in ICU, I never left the hospital but to shower and get a change of clothes...the ICU staff set us up in a waiting room with blankets and pillows and snacks/coffee/tea...but then again I didn't care what I looked like....I was spending every moment I could with my Mom.....

I truly think that Dina is a woman scorned and she blames Rebecca for her marital breakup and Max's death....why not put the blame on Jonah, were I think it belongs..

I truly believe that Max's fall was an accident (may have been an untimely accident with someone else involved) and that Rebecca was murdered for possibly what she knew or was witness too....

This case is so draining on all of us; can't imagine the families/friends left behind

Also, did AS spend time at the hospital? If not, what was his purpose there?

time said:

Interesting find and I'm also curious to find out what it was ~

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure "Item #11 is a "Document addressed to Jonah" was never addressed. No pun intended.

stmarysmead said:

As a first grader, I used to walk home from school with a friend. That walk took us over a concrete overpass..where a small creek ran between more concrete far below. My little friend and I, at 6 years old, thought maybe fairies lived down there. We would try to peek through the openings in the overpass. One day there were some older girls on the overpass. One of them picked me up and held me by my ankles...dangling me head-first over the concrete below. My Mother had been walking to meet me and saw the incident take place.

I don't think these girls were malicious or meant me harm...they were just immature. Maybe they thought they were giving me a better look. But a fall from that overpass onto the concrete below would have been as deadly as that of Max.

RZ was downstairs. Her sister and Max upstairs. Has RZ's statement to police been released with details of the incident?

Click to expand...

Of course they were malicious, they wanted to scare the crap out of you. "Maybe they thought they were giving me a better look." <modsnip>?

Perhaps the Sisters Romano were acting in a 'malicious' manner when confronting Rebecca...wanting to scare the crap out of her? But unlike you, she didn't survive her drop ;*(

scorekeeper said:

Also, did AS spend time at the hospital? If not, what was his purpose there?

Click to expand...

His 'purpose' was that of a supportive brother. He did not need to be at the hospital to be supportive.

scorekeeper said:

I don't understand the 12 hour gap (8 am to 8 pm) on 7/13 when Dina was not at hospital. Also not being able to reach her from 10:20 am until 2 pm on the day of Max's fall.

Makes no sense to me....a grieving Mother...my Mom spent 1 week in ICU, I never left the hospital but to shower and get a change of clothes...the ICU staff set us up in a waiting room with blankets and pillows and snacks/coffee/tea...but then again I didn't care what I looked like....I was spending every moment I could with my Mom.....

I truly think that Dina is a woman scorned and she blames Rebecca for her marital breakup and Max's death....why not put the blame on Jonah, were I think it belongs..

I truly believe that Max's fall was an accident (may have been an untimely accident with someone else involved) and that Rebecca was murdered for possibly what she knew or was witness too....

This case is so draining on all of us; can't imagine the families/friends left behind

Click to expand...

So now we are questioning how or even if she was grieving for her dying son? What is the point of that question? <modsnip>

<modsnip>

She is a victim here. And implying she was somehow not grieving during that time, or questioning her grieving process seems vicious, imo.

Maybe she went home and hid under the covers and took some xanaxes and a shot of whiskey. Would that matter if she did? Are you going to judge or criticize any mother whose child lay dying because you do not know where they are?

A little off topic but not too far:

Around the time this happened I bought a leather wrap bracelet online. To put it on, I have to wrap it around one wrist and secure it through the fastener with the other hand.

The first time I tried it, I bet it took 20 minutes or so, I just could not do it. Maybe if I had been putting it on with my dominant hand, but I wear my watch on the non-dominant side.

Mr. Izzy watched me and when I finally got it, he said, now do that with your hands behind your back.

<modsnip>.

Her knowing how to tie those knots and managing to jump off the balcony with both hands and feet bound has always seemed completely implausible to me.

:moo: