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  1. #1
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    UK - Were the boy princes murdered in Tower by King Richard III? - 1483




    Spring 1483 Edward V (12) and Richard, Duke of York (9) went to live in the Tower of London, at the time a royal residence, after the death of their father. They were taken there by their uncle Richard who was their "protector".

    While there they were declared to be illegitimate and uncle Richard was crowned Richard III in June of the same year. After August the young brothers were never seen again.

    Children's bones were found in the Tower in the 17th century.

    Did they belong to the boys? If so who killed them? This may seem like a no brainer but there have been various theories over the years.
    This one is from the Richard III Society
    England's dancing days are done...

  2. #2
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    The Princes in the Tower

    Good account of proceedings with links to major players and locales, from Wiki.

    And, from Crime Library at truetv.com: The Princes in the Tower

  3. #3
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    Yes, they were killed by Richard the III and yes I think they have been found. JMO. Alison Weir's book was, imo, pretty definitive.

    The Princes in the Tower: Alison Weir: 9780345391780: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2ByON9amfL.@@AMEPARAM@@51%2ByON9amfL
    Last edited by OkieGranny; 04-14-2015 at 07:00 PM. Reason: fixed broken link
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    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
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  4. #4
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    If you read the (admittedly long) link that I provided, other theories are expounded. I have enormous respect for Alison Weir but I also love a good discussion
    England's dancing days are done...

  5. #5
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by badhorsie View Post



    Spring 1483 Edward V (12) and Richard, Duke of York (9) went to live in the Tower of London, at the time a royal residence, after the death of their father. They were taken there by their uncle Richard who was their "protector".

    While there they were declared to be illegitimate and uncle Richard was crowned Richard III in June of the same year. After August the young brothers were never seen again.

    Children's bones were found in the Tower in the 17th century.

    Did they belong to the boys? If so who killed them? This may seem like a no brainer but there have been various theories over the years.
    This one is from the Richard III Society
    What a gorgeous picture of the boys - thank you for sharing that. Yes, they were probably killed or neglected and left to starve in the tower....I find it fascinating that Richard III's body may have been found - with a glaring deformity - just as it was written...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocuriouscats View Post
    I find it fascinating that Richard III's body may have been found - with a glaring deformity - just as it was written...
    Speaking of Richard III, here's the WS thread for the recent dig:

    Archaeologists to dig under car park for Greyfriars - and lost grave of Richard III
    Last edited by OkieGranny; 04-14-2015 at 07:01 PM. Reason: fixed broken link

  7. #7
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    Shakespeare - pro-Yorkist in fealty to his Queen, Elizabeth I - pours it on RIII's Plantagenet head as the soon to be crowned Richard addresses the older of the princes he will (allegedly, in real life) have killed, warning the princes about "false friends" (though if RIII did have the princes killed, one would think of this passage as the ultimate "With 'friends' like Richard, who needs enemies?" construct):
    Sweet prince, the untainted virtue of your years
    Hath not yet dived into the world's deceit
    Nor more can you distinguish of a man
    Than of his outward show; which, God he knows,
    Seldom or never jumpeth with the heart.
    Those uncles which you want were dangerous;
    Your grace attended to their sugar'd words,
    But look'd not on the poison of their hearts :
    God keep you from them, and from such false friends!

    Act III i

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by badhorsie View Post
    If you read the (admittedly long) link that I provided, other theories are expounded. I have enormous respect for Alison Weir but I also love a good discussion
    Weir actually spends a good part of the book including alternate theories. She absolutely gave the Richard the III Society quite a bit of time and respect. I just happen to agree with her conclusions.
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  9. #9
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    A question that's featured lately in both the Telegraph and the Independent: if the bones found in Leicester last week do turn out to be Richard III's, should he be given a state funeral even though many find him culpable in the matter of the boys' deaths (one of whom was a monarch, recall - making RIII a regicide)?

    Historian calls for Richard III state funeral (Independent)

    Damn it, let's give Richard III one last, glorious summer (Telegraph)

    and also topical:

    Finding Richard III would expose the ever-shifting ground of history (Guardian)
    The discovery of remains that could belong to Richard III reminds us how fluid is our understanding of the past

    Almost o/t trivia note: Richard III was the last English monarch physically to lead his troops into battle - and that's how he was killed, at Bosworth Field, on 22 August 1485.

    (And p.s. I do think Richard III was responsible for the young princes's deaths - still reading though - and I do not think he should receive a state funeral. It's probably too late to save me - I've been influenced by far too great an extent by the Shakespeare play!)

  10. #10
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    And finally, still more links, these dealing directly, more or less, with the whodunnit? question:

    Short, to the point, and with many readers' comments after the article:

    Did Richard III really kill the princes in the tower? (dailykos.com)

    A much more thorough look at Richard's alleged culpability:

    The Case Against Richard III (monarchsofengland.tripod.com)

    And Daily Mail, not only combining the state funeral/deaths of the princes questions, but managing also to be its regular old xenophobic self in the process!

    Yes, he may have killed the princes in the Tower, but now we should give our last ENGLISH king a decent burial


  11. #11
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    Thanks for all the links! I saw this case years and years ago on an old show, I think it was called "In Search Of.." and I've always thought it was Richard. I haven't really seen that anyone else had as much to gain.

  12. #12
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    Three more Richard III links, but with content also about the Princes in the Tower, as one cannot think of the boy princes without thinking of Richard III:

    Richard III: was the 'king under the car park' really so bad? (Telegraph)

    About the Richard III Society: The people who want everyone to like Richard III (BBC News)

    Richard III, the great villain of English history, is due a makeover (Guardian)

  13. #13
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    I always wondered what title would be used in a case against a reigning king, since the monarch is -theoretically- the prosecuting party. Richard III vs Richard Plantagenet?

  14. #14
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    More seriously now, the case is indeed not an open-and-shut case. Richard had succeeded in making his claim to the throne perfectly legal regardless of Edward being alive or not and it could be argued that the chances of having this claim successfully challenged by Edward were quite slim, so why take the risk of murdering the child and his younger brother? Sure it is suspicious that both princes disappeared but disease cannot be ruled out. Like most European royal houses of the day the Plantagenets were prone to illness and Richard may have had reason to believe that making this public would undermine his position as he was suspected of being sickly himself. When we approach these cases we must try and grasp the mentality, beliefs and politics of the day. And also perhaps avoid judging personalities that have been portrayed in plays based on how they appear in those plays, which were after all mostly fiction.

  15. #15
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    Perkin Warbeck almighty!

    Kidding. I, too, have always thought RIII's reputation was justly deserved and that the Princes died in the Tower either as a result of neglect or outright murder.

    Thanks for starting this thread!!!!!

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