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  1. #1
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    IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20


    http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/eva...9bb2963f4.html

    http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/e...-missing-girls

    These girls have been missing all afternoon and the search was suspended tonight now that it's dark here. We're a small town next to a larger city but a small police force that has likely never dealt with missing kids.. Bikes found on the trail and purse and phone had been thrown over the fence near the bikes but the other side of the fence is a hill leading to the highway. Right now the search is very disorganized and there aren't any flyers .


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    Scanner Thread : remember anything in the scanner thread stays in the scanner thread


    case map by poster hollye

    NCMEC posters:
    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...archLang=en_US
    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...archLang=en_US

    NEW UPDATE! DCI EMAIL AND SIX TIPS TO LOOK FOR:
    http://www.kcci.com/news/central-iow...p/-/index.html
    Last edited by KateB; 04-06-2015 at 01:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by imamaze View Post
    Please remember the following when discussing the case:
    Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.

    Things to know before you post:
    Leave the snark -- and the rumors --at the door.
    Treat other posters with respect.
    Do not sleuth individuals who have not been mentioned in MSM either as persons of interest or as suspects by LE.
    Choose the links you post wisely; don't link to sites which feature bizarre speculation, etc.
    If you have questions or concerns about a post, alert on that post and contact a mod. Do not quote and/or reply to the post. If you do, and the post is subsequently deleted, your post is subject to deletion, as well.
    If you have other questions in general, scroll to the bottom of the page and find "View forum leaders." There you will find a list of moderators available if you need to PM one.
    Remember: you can disagree with a post and address it, but you do NOT attack the poster.

    No one has been named by LE or MSM as a POI or suspect in this case.
    The parents, whatever you may personally think about them, have not been named.
    That means that they, and their families, their neighbors, and their friends and "associates," are not to be sleuthed or badmouthed.
    bumping this up.. and this warning lands at random: several more posts that involved sleuthing the family have been removed just from today alone. From this point forth if you sleuth the family or post speculation about them you will be put on the timeout list. The rules are easy to follow. If you have any questions about them please pm a moderator. Again, this lands at random.

  3. #3
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    IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

    Please continue here.

    Thanks,

    Salem

  4. #4
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    I`d like to post these two maps again. They give the last known time and location for the girls.




  5. #5
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    The more I look at the maps, the more it seems clear that the girls were last seen at the corner of Elmer and Gilbert, the entrance to the parking lot at Meyers Lake. Their bikes and purse were found at the drainage pipe gate, and police have asked people about Arbutus, meaning the girls entered the park from the East. Perhaps they rode across the grass.

    Dogs tracked to the end of the fence in the treed area. Somehow, their bikes ended up somewhere between the end of the fence on the East side and the actual gate. Someone could have lured them with a boat ride with the condition that they had to walk through the forest ... a bit like Hansel and Gretel.

    Didn`t Lyric`s paternal grandmother say something about Lyric being like a bull in a China shop ... would blindly do something without consideration of the consequences. They could have been lured (I`m now of the opinion that they were). Elizabeth was described as a friendly, talkative child with strangers (paraphrasing there). Perhaps it was a complete stranger, perhaps it was someone that they had encountered once before - perhaps in the parking lots near Elizabeth`s home. The grandmother last saw them riding towards the old post office.


  6. #6
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    Sorry all I know this is way, way far behind.. my catch up posts: - I dared to leave the computer for a few hours.

    It looks like the thread has closed so I can't quote directly and don't want to attempt the delayed quoting so I don't screw it all up like I did before. I'll just go in order. Hope that's ok.

    @Cherie.T - aw thank you so much for your thoughts. People can be rude for sure, but a lot of times I think they don't even know they're doing it. Sometimes they do of course but I think a lot of it's subconscious. It really sucks but I guess it's just reality. Using a wheelchair, especially as a kid, you're nearly always ignored, or treated so overly-nicely that you're kind of embarassed. Adult in a wheelchair, oh yeah, ignored unless you desperatly need help. Tying to this case I can see these two little girls helping a person in need, young or old.

    @Cherie.T and @Marilynilpa - I can so relate to a lot of what you both said. I think most of the time people want to do the right thing and don't know exactly what the right thing is. Especially, possibly, young vulnerable girls, growing up in a safe area - "right" thing might not always be "safest" thing. And Marilynilpa I understand your Mom not wanting to shop when it's busy, for a lot of reasons.

    @Otto I'm not sure exactly how to phrase this but it seems to me, IMO and all, that most of the time a person did kidnap or molest a child, or worse, the most common comment (to media anyway) is "but they were... (fill in the blank: quiet/a great neighbor/at church every Sunday/the best neighbors you could ask for/didn't know them well but they were very nice.) Ohhkay... that makes sense to me but who would go to the cops going "I KNEW she/he was a serial rapist and killer!"?

    General comment, what freaks me out more and I haven't had a chance to look it up yet was the recent "Batman shooter" guy. I only caught a bit of it but if I heard it right, even his own Mom was saying she wasn't surprised. What?!?

    Catching up on posts..

    @Cherie T. about the reward amount, you're right, it never seems to do much. In this case I sort of thought it might depending on who took the girls. Thanks for sharing those other cases. Did someone see the abduction? Maybe, but I think only if it didn't look like an abduction at that point. I can think of so many reasons girls would go with someone, especially a familiar vehicle... quickly, and quietly.

    @ Cherie.T and Marilynilpa sorry I'm jumping around a bit, I could be way off base but I do agree it was someone trusted and known to at least one of the girls.

    @Considering: "Looks like I'm back to my original theory on the abduction. I had started thinking they were kidnapped closer to Elizabeth's house, but now I'm back at the lake as the abduction site." Me too but I'm curious as to what changed your mind?
    Last edited by nikb; 09-17-2012 at 04:01 AM.

  7. #7
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    Someone on the last thread asked about exit routes, in particular one that included McCoy.



    Just thinking about routes that perps take when there`s someone in the car that shouldn`t be there ... the rapist and murderer of Joanna Yeates in Bristol involved a bizarre escape route ... one where there was less traffic.
    Last edited by otto; 09-17-2012 at 04:06 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikb View Post
    I'm not sure exactly how to phrase this but it seems to me, IMO and all, that most of the time a person did kidnap or molest a child, or worse, the most common comment (to media anyway) is "but they were... (fill in the blank: quiet/a great neighbor/at church every Sunday/the best neighbors you could ask for/didn't know them well but they were very nice.) Ohhkay... that makes sense to me but who would go to the cops going "I KNEW she/he was a serial rapist and killer!"?
    Unlike the 1950s, when electroshock therapy and frontal lobotomies were popular, or the 1970s when it was believed that craniology was a clue in indentifying murders, today it is a well known fact that anyone with any profession or job, with any shape of the head, or style of hand writing, can commit murder. Even Jack the Ripper has, on occassion, been considered a gentleman.

    http://www.nndb.com/people/256/000093974/

    Investigators asked that anyone that had a meeting or planned event cancelled, knew someone that had a quick change of plans, or who had a boat ... that is the sort of intuitively odd behavior that investigators are asking people to report about their neighbors. I don`t think they`re expecting anyone to walk in sideways accusing their neigbor of being a serial killer.
    Last edited by otto; 09-17-2012 at 04:47 AM.

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by RNER
    Guess I'm confused...

    I was thinking that they might have taken the girls to keep him from talking in a trial because of the fear that the girls would be harmed or killed if he said too much.

    Maybe the "abduction" was planned no matter what he decided to do in court the day before. IMOO...Either way would implicate others.
    BBM

    The one way it would make sense to take them (or at least Lyric) even though he changed his plea would be to hold them until his own trial is finished. That way there'd be no chance of him changing his mind again at the last minute and testifying. I personally don't think that's what happened to them, but it's not totally out of the question. MOO
    Every murderer is someone's old friend ... Agatha Christie

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
    BBM

    The one way it would make sense to take them (or at least Lyric) even though he changed his plea would be to hold them until his own trial is finished. That way there'd be no chance of him changing his mind again at the last minute and testifying. I personally don't think that's what happened to them, but it's not totally out of the question. MOO
    If someone wanted to kidnap Lyric to send a message to her father, why is Elizabeth missing.


  11. #11
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    Yellow might be where the girls rode their bikes,
    Green might be how they rode thier bikes from Gilbert and Elmer along Arbutus to the drainage pipe gate
    Purple might be the routes taken after the girls had been abducted


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    If someone wanted to kidnap Lyric to send a message to her father, why is Elizabeth missing.
    Did you read the whole thing I wrote? I said I don't think that's what happened. You're preaching to the choir here!
    Every murderer is someone's old friend ... Agatha Christie

  13. #13
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    Nikb, you are so sweet...thanks for replying here to all our comments from the other thread.

  14. #14
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    Otto- I don't think the girls rode their bikes to Arbutus. I think LE is asking about that area because it's pretty clear they were taken out that way, if they rode the trail to where their bikes were found. And even if they didn't, Arbutus still would have been used to stage the bikes.

    This is just MOO of course.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.--Albert Einstein

  15. #15
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    I will never believe the bikes were staged, that's just taking a huge risk.

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