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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    New England
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    Quote Originally Posted by madamx View Post
    omg this just dawned on me what? if its an unknown they just immediately filed as male? why cant they just leave it as unknown??
    That also means that such remains are not automatically compared to female missing persons

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    993
    That's crazy.. They should leave it unknown which gives the option of being matched to a male or female... Oh dear...
    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    That also means that such remains are not automatically compared to female missing persons

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    993
    I just happen to come across this guy that I had not recall seeing before.. if someone put him on this thread already sorry for the repeat
    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...871e3ce6c.html
    It was Sept. 3, 1989, when the owners of the Good 'n Loud Music store on University Avenue halfway between Madison and Middleton found a pile of bones, a skull and rotting clothing at the base of the store's chimney. They had removed a boiler in the basement to repair a leak, and saw a skull through a pipe connecting the boiler to the chimney.

    Though clothing items — paisley dress, blouse, sweater, shoes, but no underclothes — were clearly a woman's, the skeleton was that of a man. Or, as Lengfeld and retired homicide detective James Grann noted, police are 93 percent certain it was a man.
    The body was probably that of a small white man with brown hair and a slight overbite, and had been in the 11.75-inch-diameter chimney for two months to two years, experts estimated at the time. He either died there or was killed elsewhere and his body stuffed into the chimney. Over time the body decomposed and the bones — the pelvis was broken in two places — fell to the bottom of the chimney. Cause of death: unknown.
    Police adopted a "most likely" scenario: the victim was a male cross-dresser, possibly a prostitute, surprised someone, perhaps a customer, who was angry enough about that surprise to commit murder, then stuff the body down the chimney.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/745umwi.html

    Date of Discovery: September 3, 1989
    Location of Discovery: Madison, Dane County, Wisconsin
    Estimated Date of Death: 2 months to two years
    State of Remains: Skeletal
    Cause of Death: Accident or homicide
    Physical Description
    Estimated Age: 18-35 years old
    Race: White
    Gender: Male
    Height: 5'5" to 5'7"
    Weight: Unknown, but victim had a thin build.
    Hair Color: Brown, about 4 inches long.
    Eye Color: Unknown
    Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown
    Identifiers
    Dentals: Available. Pronounced overbite.
    Fingerprints: Not available
    DNA: Not available
    Clothing & Personal Items
    Clothing: A sleeveless paisley dress, with a matching belt; a long-sleeved, button-down shirt that may have been made of Oxford-type cloth. A medium-size White Stag brand, shaggy-pile sweater. Low-heeled, pointed shoes. He was wearing one pair of socks and carrying another pair. He was not wearing underwear.
    Jewelry: A German iron cross medallion.
    Additional Personal Items: Butter knife and a pocket comb.
    Circumstances of Discovery
    The victim's skeletal remains were found in the chimney of a business on University Avenue in Madison, WI. The owner of the building was doing repair work, and saw water leaking from the flue onto the basement floor after removing a boiler. He shined a light into the chimney and discovered the remains at the base of the chimney about level with the basement floor. There is no way the man could have gotten into the pipe from within the building.
    The person may have been a male cross-dresser or someone for some reason disguising himself as a woman.
    Detectives have speculated the man was a burglar who got stuck in the chimney and died, or a murder victim who was stuffed into the chimney.
    The pelvic bones of the mystery man had been severely fractured and those injuries appear to have been caused at the time of death. 745UMWI[1].jpg

  4. #49
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    Sep 2015
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    AUS
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    For anyone who’s interested, here’s a link to a good ‘primer’ on the subject of Forensic Anthropology:

    http://aboutforensics.co.uk/forensic-anthropology/
    Posts are my opinion/speculation with the exception of relevant source material

    The information contained herein is not to be reproduced or reprinted outside of Websleuths.com without my written permission

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    19,159
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
    For anyone who’s interested, here’s a link to a good ‘primer’ on the subject of Forensic Anthropology:

    http://aboutforensics.co.uk/forensic-anthropology/
    Thanks for posting interesting link. Since the article is lengthy, posting these parts, for quick reference.
    rbbm.

    Sex
    Establishing the sex of skeletonised human remains is not generally too difficult, as there are a number of morphological differences between the skeletons of males and females. If the remains have not reached the latter stages of decomposition, some indicators of sex may still be present in the softer tissues. For instance, the prostate gland in males and the uterus in females do not decay until later than other soft tissues. Should the bones be all that remains, perhaps the most significant indicator of sex is the pelvis. In a female the pelvis presents a U-shaped sub pubic arch, as oppose to the V-shape found in a male pelvis. As would be expected, the female’s pelvis is also generally more spacious to allow for childrearing, with a wider sub-pubic angle and sciatic notch. Furthermore, examination of a female’s pelvis may even indicate whether or not she has previously given birth, offering a further detail for identification purposes. Through examination of the skull it may also be possible to determine the likely sex of the remains, with the skull of a male tending to display a larger, squarer and more pronounced jaw, a more prominent supraorbital ridge (brow), and more rectangular eye sockets (orbits). Though not an infallible means of sex determination, the general size of bones can provide some indication as to whether the remains belong to a male or female. As the muscles in a male tend to be larger and better developed, the bones are generally larger and to an extent more robust than those of a female. However it should be noted that establishing sex based on the human skeleton is often challenging when dealing with the remains of pre-pubescent children, as certain indicators, such as the widening of the hips in a female, may not have occurred until puberty. Furthermore, the natural sex of an individual may not be consistent with the gender of that individual (for instance, a person designated female at birth may be living as a male), hindering the identification process.
    Ethnicity
    Establishing the ethnicity of an individual is generally carried out by studying the skull, which is typically classed as belonging to a Caucasoid (or Caucasion), Negroid or Mongoloid. The cranium itself is typically long, narrow and high in Caucasians, similar in Negroids but lower, and more rounded in individuals of Mongoloid ancestry. The size of the nasal opening may be used as an indicator for ethnicity, with the nasal cavity of a Caucasian being narrower and higher in comparison to the broader opening belonging to an individual of Negroid origin, and Monogloids sitting somewhat in between. The eye orbits can also provide clues as to the possible ethnicity, with individuals of Caucasian ancestry tending to have sloped orbits, as oppose to Negroids who generally possess more rectangular eye orbits and people of Mongoloid ancestry with rounder orbits. The mastoid process, which refers to a particular part of the skull just behind the ear, tends to appear as a wider projection in Negroids whereas this is often more pointed and narrow in Caucasian individuals. The teeth may also prove beneficial to a certain extent, with individuals of a Mongoloid ethnicity tending to have upper incisors that could be described as ‘shovel-shaped’ with a curved inner surface, as oppose to the more flat surface found in the teeth of Negroids and Caucasians. An additional observation to note relating to teeth, Caucasians tend to have smaller teeth and more overcrowding, commonly resulting in impacting third molars that must be removed. However the determination of ethnicity is certainly not straightforward, with the occurrence of ‘racial hybridity’ being a problem in establishing ethnicity of an unknown individual. This is the result of breeding between different racial groups, resulting in individuals possessing features that are typical of two or more racial groups.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    17,862
    Quote Originally Posted by madamx View Post
    I just happen to come across this guy that I had not recall seeing before.. if someone put him on this thread already sorry for the repeat
    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...871e3ce6c.html
    It was Sept. 3, 1989, when the owners of the Good 'n Loud Music store on University Avenue halfway between Madison and Middleton found a pile of bones, a skull and rotting clothing at the base of the store's chimney. They had removed a boiler in the basement to repair a leak, and saw a skull through a pipe connecting the boiler to the chimney.

    Though clothing items — paisley dress, blouse, sweater, shoes, but no underclothes — were clearly a woman's, the skeleton was that of a man. Or, as Lengfeld and retired homicide detective James Grann noted, police are 93 percent certain it was a man.
    The body was probably that of a small white man with brown hair and a slight overbite, and had been in the 11.75-inch-diameter chimney for two months to two years, experts estimated at the time. He either died there or was killed elsewhere and his body stuffed into the chimney. Over time the body decomposed and the bones — the pelvis was broken in two places — fell to the bottom of the chimney. Cause of death: unknown.
    Police adopted a "most likely" scenario: the victim was a male cross-dresser, possibly a prostitute, surprised someone, perhaps a customer, who was angry enough about that surprise to commit murder, then stuff the body down the chimney.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/745umwi.html

    Date of Discovery: September 3, 1989
    Location of Discovery: Madison, Dane County, Wisconsin
    Estimated Date of Death: 2 months to two years
    State of Remains: Skeletal
    Cause of Death: Accident or homicide
    Physical Description
    Estimated Age: 18-35 years old
    Race: White
    Gender: Male
    Height: 5'5" to 5'7"
    Weight: Unknown, but victim had a thin build.
    Hair Color: Brown, about 4 inches long.
    Eye Color: Unknown
    Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown
    Identifiers
    Dentals: Available. Pronounced overbite.
    Fingerprints: Not available
    DNA: Not available
    Clothing & Personal Items
    Clothing: A sleeveless paisley dress, with a matching belt; a long-sleeved, button-down shirt that may have been made of Oxford-type cloth. A medium-size White Stag brand, shaggy-pile sweater. Low-heeled, pointed shoes. He was wearing one pair of socks and carrying another pair. He was not wearing underwear.
    Jewelry: A German iron cross medallion.
    Additional Personal Items: Butter knife and a pocket comb.
    Circumstances of Discovery
    The victim's skeletal remains were found in the chimney of a business on University Avenue in Madison, WI. The owner of the building was doing repair work, and saw water leaking from the flue onto the basement floor after removing a boiler. He shined a light into the chimney and discovered the remains at the base of the chimney about level with the basement floor. There is no way the man could have gotten into the pipe from within the building.
    The person may have been a male cross-dresser or someone for some reason disguising himself as a woman.
    Detectives have speculated the man was a burglar who got stuck in the chimney and died, or a murder victim who was stuffed into the chimney.
    The pelvic bones of the mystery man had been severely fractured and those injuries appear to have been caused at the time of death. 745UMWI[1].jpg
    They have a thread here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lothing-Sep-89

    Wish I knew whether they preferred to be called "he" or "she."
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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