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  1. #1
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    I find it strange

    I find it strange that after all of the upgrades John did to his fancy plane, (the one that was not ready the morning of the 26th, when it was supposed to be) that he chose to sell it in 1997 to his pilot at a greatly reduced rate. Somewhere I have all of the stats on the things he did to 'that' plane to improve and make it more valuable. All of this information is in DOI, on the improvements.

    Yet believe it was the end of 1997 when he chose to dispose of it because of money needs.

    I recall that more information was included here on the forum with sources, that John had another plane. What I don't know is what kind it was, the value of it, how much it took to maintain this 'other' plane, how old this 'other' plane was, and why it was not sold instead of the plane that was sold in '97.

    Would it have made more financial sense to have sold the second plane instead, instead of his 'baby' the one he had put so much of himself into?

    I obviously need someone to counter my query here, with more precise information on the second plane.

    Perhaps this thread will sink down into the deepy dark, from lack of interest, time will tell.

    I no longer have my DOI book, where all info on the plane that was to fly out of Boulder on the 26th is included. The things that John did to that plane to upgrade it made it one of the FASTEST of that model in existance at that time.

    Information on the second plane, I do not have.



    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  2. #2
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    Aug 2003
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    Oriental, North Carolina
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    Camper

    Hope this thread doesn't sink into the dark recesses. It's a good query. I'm intrigued. I want to know. Deal is, I'm just lazy and have a new puppy. As soon as I start to research something, the crazy cooter wants to go outside! HELP! Oh well, at least she keeps me active - against my will.

    Your researching mind makes me wonder about "his baby". What's the deal? I'm with you. John is such an enigma to me. I think I know him, yet he does some obtuse things...you know? For instance, this guy is a workaholic who loves his status and toys as well. He is overwhelmingly interested in his plane Christmas Day. Sheesh, he wanted to go to his plane first thing that morning even when JB was missing! Why? He phones his pilot and tries to get stuff together quickly. Why? He doesn't seem to quite "get it" when the police inform him he has to stay. Why? Hmmmmmmmm.......

    And then he sells his "baby" for a discount? Why? Hmmmmmmm
    Simplicity...patience...compassion

  3. #3
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    Remember MJenn's Researched Theory?

    There was a well-researched theory that JAR really could have been in Boulder the night of the murder and flown back to Atlanta in time to travel back to Boulder with his sister the morning of the day after. That he'd had one of his friends go to the ATM, hat covering the face from the camera.

    If this hopped-up plane was used for anything clandestine, especially a murder, Archuletta wouldn't have wanted it either, at any price, correct?

    Evidently when there was nothing more that could be done to the plane, John simply wanted to move on to a new project.

  4. #4
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle1
    There was a well-researched theory that JAR really could have been in Boulder the night of the murder and flown back to Atlanta in time to travel back to Boulder with his sister the morning of the day after. That he'd had one of his friends go to the ATM, hat covering the face from the camera.

    If this hopped-up plane was used for anything clandestine, especially a murder, Archuletta wouldn't have wanted it either, at any price, correct?

    Evidently when there was nothing more that could be done to the plane, John simply wanted to move on to a new project.



    ----------------->>>>>>>>>Yep I remember that theory, I spent multiple hours in the middle of the night working on Yahoo chat with MJenn, on the theory.

    Dig out your copy of DOI, John says he sold that speedy plane because, because = are you ready Eagle = because he needed the money. He sold it for a bargain price, why not sell it in the market place openly, not to a good friend, but to someone who WOULD pay the market price, hmmm. This would have meant MORE money to John.




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    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  5. #5
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    Yep, Wish MJenn Were Here.

    Needed money, hm? Come on, there's something you're thinking.

    If we come up with nothing else, I'll bet it was expensive to store and maintain the thing, and maybe he felt he owed Archuletta whatever he could do for him.

    Editing to add, the DOI that I read was from my city's library, but now it's in the county library network, not at ours any more. I couldn't even find it at Borders the other day. There's a new book in the system, way far away from my town so I'll have to ask them to have it sent over when I finish my "The New Jackals" and two books on fibromyalgia. Title is "A Little Girl's Dream". Sounds good. Anything new is a plus.

  6. #6
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle1
    Needed money, hm? Come on, there's something you're thinking.

    If we come up with nothing else, I'll bet it was expensive to store and maintain the thing, and maybe he felt he owed Archuletta whatever he could do for him.

    Editing to add, the DOI that I read was from my city's library, but now it's in the county library network, not at ours any more. I couldn't even find it at Borders the other day. There's a new book in the system, way far away from my town so I'll have to ask them to have it sent over when I finish my "The New Jackals" and two books on fibromyalgia. Title is "A Little Girl's Dream". Sounds good. Anything new is a plus.



    --------->>>>I am certain that someone here on WS can look it up, he does say he needed the money in DOI. He sold it in 1997, just one year from JonBenets death, surely his money coffers were not that low just one year later. It is not just something that you infer I am thinking, IF IF I am wrong I will eat my printer paper supply.

    ..............................
    You might wish to look up doppleganger, in your dictionary.
    Here is the definition as found on line through Google.
    Definition: DOPPLEGANGER: From the German, meaning 'double walker,' a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.

    So far there isn't a suitable term for an online person with two or more hats.
    ...............................
    This is a puzzle for you, I will post no further on the topic of who is here or who isn't here.



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    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    484
    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    Dig out your copy of DOI, John says he sold that speedy plane because, because = are you ready Eagle = because he needed the money. He sold it for a bargain price, why not sell it in the market place openly, not to a good friend, but to someone who WOULD pay the market price, hmmm. This would have meant MORE money to John.
    Here is what you all are talking about.

    As December wound down, I began to realize that I was running out of ways to raise cash and would be forced to sell my airplane to pay our mounting debts. I'd owned this airplane for nine years, and enjoyed fixing it up much like bikers like to tinker with their Harley Davidsons. It was my hobby, and I had made it pay for itself by chartering the plane to Mike Archuleta's company, Mountain Aviation. After nine years I'd finally gotten this airplane exactly the way I wanted it. I'd installed Pratt and Whitney PT6A-110 turbine engines, which made this Beechcraft C90 the only one in the world with the more powerful 110 engines. I had also added four-bladed Raisbeck props, Frakes speed cowlings, Frakes slimline exhaust stacks, and finally a new interior. It was fast, as King Airs go, and easy to fly. Now that customized plane, which was named for Beth, would have to go.

    edited to add:

    Why is it that John never ever mentions he started his own aviation company in 1996, with Patsy?

    COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF STATE, CORPORATE/LTD PARTNERSHIP RECORD

    NAME: WESTERN JET, INC.

    TYPE: DOMESTIC PROFIT (IN COLORADO)

    STATUS: DISSOLVED

    STATUS-DATE: 06/01/1999 DATE RECORDS WILL BE PURGED FROM SYSTEM

    FILING-DATE: 02/16/1996

    DURATION: PERPETUAL

    STATE OF INCORPORATION: COLORADO

    ADDRESS: 11740 AIRPORT WY HANGER 35-B
    BOULDER, CO 80302

    REGISTERED AGENT: PHILLIPS ROBERT M

    CURRENT AGENT APPOINTED: 04/01/1997

    REGISTERED OFFICE: 1401 WALNUT ST STE 400
    BOULDER, CO 80302

    ANNUAL-REPORT:
    CURRENT REPORT/NO:

    CAPITAL/STOCK:
    CLASS PAR VALUE SHARES/AUTH SHARES/ISSUED

    1. COMMON 100,000 0

    NUMBER: 19961022862

    DIRECTORS:

    RAMSEY JOHN B
    1426 PEARL ST
    BOULDER, CO 80302

    RAMSEY PATRICIA A
    11740 AIRPORT WY HANGER 35-B
    BROOMFIELD, CO 80021

    HISTORY:

    1. DATE: 02/16/1996
    TRANSACTION: ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
    COMMENT: WESTERN JET, INC....
    DOCUMENT NO: 19961022862

    2. DATE: 04/01/1997
    TRANSACTION: ARTICLES OF AMENDMENT
    COMMENT: DF1...
    DOCUMENT NO: 19971050752

    3. DATE: 01/16/1998
    TRANSACTION: REPORT
    COMMENT: CR - 02/01/1998 - 04/30/1998...

    4. DATE: 05/05/1998
    TRANSACTION: DISSOLVED CORPORATION
    COMMENT: ART OF DISS...
    DOCUMENT NO: 19981083552

    5. DATE: 10/01/1998
    TRANSACTION: DISSOLVED CORPORATION
    COMMENT: A DISSOLVED COLORADO CORPORATION, 1998...
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  8. #8
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    Sep 2004
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    7,658
    why_nutt:

    Interesting. It may simply be a tax shell. Most people with money arrange their affairs like that. It means their luxury boats and planes can have tax expenditure claimed and relief thereon. Same can be done with owning houses in other states or countries, they become the property of a shell company so attract tax relief on their upkeep etc.

    Statistically its close to zero for a perpetrator to travel hundreds of miles to commit a specific homicide. Some serial killers go "roaming" for victims travelling long distances, but their victims are usually random and unknown to them.

    Also where a victim is found in a domestic setting the odds that the perpetrator lives local grows close to 1. If staging is involved it normally point inwards, and if there is forensic cleaning this means either the perpetrator may be known to the police, or will soon be, or its not the perpetrators first time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    350
    I believe the second plane was Access Graphic's.

    If I remember correctly, the day the Grand Jury decision came down - the Ramseys were at Archuletta's home.....(ready to run, uh, fly?)
    IMO -

  10. #10
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    Aug 2003
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    USA
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    Many thanks

    Many thanks to you Why Nutt. I am not smart enough to digest the corporate ownership situation. I have a curiosity about the fact that John owned this plane for nine years and sold it. He and Patsy incorporated in 1996 and at the time would have owned that plane since about 1990 as near as I can figure. Did they incorporate when they purchased the second plane? UK guy you are probably right about the tax situation.

    Also when Access Graphics was sold was the second plane part of the sale? I don't remember the source for my hearing about the second planes existance.

    Does anyone remember correctly when Access Graphics was sold? My memory is dim on this. I would venture a guess that between John and AG that he had a major line of credit that would have assisted him through his 'debts'. Look at Donald Trump, when he was nearly sliding out to sea with the tide, his financial folks stood with him.

    Some questions to any private pilots reading here:

    A fine plane like the Beechcraft model that John owned, how do you keep the flying mileage recorded for maintenance etc.? Do you log your miles after every trip? Is there a standard type 'aircraft log book' that is used for this purpose, AND is it a loose leaf book OR bound style?


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    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""


  11. #11
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    Never mind

    I got my answer about the log book from my adult child that works for FAA. There is a standard pilot flight log, bound, not loose leaf.



    To a Websleuth poster that I have sent PM's to, AND the poster who sent me a PM this morning, please clean out your PM box!!!!!!! its full.

    Hey clean it up soon, I have had a revelation in my mind, hee hee. My brain is on overload!!



    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""