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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Has the case fizzled a bit?

    Serious question.

    Since the Kolar book and the flurry of posts after its release, I just get the feeling things have fizzled a bit around here.

    Is it because some of us have sat back and said "Well, there you have it, we know the family did it, but we also know nothing will come of it"?

    Or is it the Backfire Effect where in spite of the mountain of evidence that doesn't just support the RDI theory, but discounts the IDI, those IDI out there MORE stubbornly stick to their guns and therefore we're just groaning and rolling our eyes?

    Or are we simply slipping into what I believe is JR's preferred option...the "it's all too hard" category where after 16 years of head beating it's all becoming a bit tiresome?

    I personally am comparing the current situation to someone farting in a lift.
    We all know who did it, but they're just patiently waiting for the smell to dissipate so that they can move on and walk out of the lift.

    I haven't read Kolar's book, but from the posts I've seen, there seems to be little doubt where he's pointing. He's revealed some new information, he's confirmed some existing information. But are we at the stage now where we've narrowed down the only real bit of "required" information to such an extent that it's impossible to actually get hold of?

    I'm keen to see SuperDave's book, but at this stage I can only make the assumption that the "new" information in it will be revelations of corruption and shoddy efforts by authorities involved rather than hard physical evidence.

    So it will add the the whole, but not to the "hole".

    What we have been doing over these last 16 years is painting a picture of our ever expanding Universe, around a black hole. We can be as detailed as we like with the surroundings, but the void in unavoidable and seemingly impossible to detail.

    I just wonder if this case is slipping into the realm of "I reckon BLAH did it" and that's where it ends?

    I hope I'm wrong.

  2. #2
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    I don't think so. There is still so much disagreement over WHO did it, what part each Ramsey played (if any), the weird ransom note, WHY JonBenet was killed, etc. I think most of us have known for a while that this case will never go to trial, but we still discuss it. I consider it to be a pretty big mystery, because if you make any statement about the WHO/WHY/WHEN/WHERE, someone will disagree with you. Not to mention, I don't think it's really possible for a case to have 16 years of discussion, and then for everyone to just give up.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    I don't think so. There is still so much disagreement over WHO did it, what part each Ramsey played (if any), the weird ransom note, WHY JonBenet was killed, etc. I think most of us have known for a while that this case will never go to trial, but we still discuss it. I consider it to be a pretty big mystery, because if you make any statement about the WHO/WHY/WHEN/WHERE, someone will disagree with you. Not to mention, I don't think it's really possible for a case to have 16 years of discussion, and then for everyone to just give up.
    Agree. This murder has so many 'layers' which we still pilling-off for 16 years without successfull complition. I'm not going here in much details why this case is so fascinating and like magnetic force pulls new followers and not letting go the old one...

    Here is just a small example why I'm attached to this case for so many years...

    Without autopsy, what did you see? The TORTURED child in the basement, strangled by the rope with 'garotte'; her hands are bonded with the rope in the 'up' position suggesting some kind of hanging/controlling activity....here is your first layer...This how the 'package' was ready to be discovered by LE!!! This what in the mind of the 'stager' the 'kidnapper' did to JBR.

    The next 2 (two) 'layers' are very important and shouldn't be ever forgotten in establishing WHY/WHEN/WHERE!!!

    *** The extend of the head injury wasn't known to the actual killer. This was discovered during autopsy only.

    *** The extend of the sexual injury wasn't known to the actual killer as well. In addition, it was purposely carefully HIDDEN to NOT be visiable upon discovery. Both injuries, the acute and chronic, were discovered during autopsy only.

    The above two 'layers' are like the separate hidden murder....Some experts refers to these 'layers' as the 'staging inside of the staging'...for me, it's murder inside of the murder so to speak...

    If properly understand the above WHY/WHEN/WHERE then we're ready to approach WHO....but for how long? For another 16 years?!!!! ....don't know, as long as it takes...

    JMO
    Last edited by OpenMind4U; 10-01-2012 at 09:49 PM. Reason: correct the spelling:)

  4. #4
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    Jul 2009
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    I'm glad you poised this question

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderllama View Post
    Serious question.

    Since the Kolar book and the flurry of posts after its release, I just get the feeling things have fizzled a bit around here.

    Is it because some of us have sat back and said "Well, there you have it, we know the family did it, but we also know nothing will come of it"?

    Or is it the Backfire Effect where in spite of the mountain of evidence that doesn't just support the RDI theory, but discounts the IDI, those IDI out there MORE stubbornly stick to their guns and therefore we're just groaning and rolling our eyes?

    Or are we simply slipping into what I believe is JR's preferred option...the "it's all too hard" category where after 16 years of head beating it's all becoming a bit tiresome?

    I personally am comparing the current situation to someone farting in a lift.
    We all know who did it, but they're just patiently waiting for the smell to dissipate so that they can move on and walk out of the lift.

    I haven't read Kolar's book, but from the posts I've seen, there seems to be little doubt where he's pointing. He's revealed some new information, he's confirmed some existing information. But are we at the stage now where we've narrowed down the only real bit of "required" information to such an extent that it's impossible to actually get hold of?

    I'm keen to see SuperDave's book, but at this stage I can only make the assumption that the "new" information in it will be revelations of corruption and shoddy efforts by authorities involved rather than hard physical evidence.

    So it will add the the whole, but not to the "hole".

    What we have been doing over these last 16 years is painting a picture of our ever expanding Universe, around a black hole. We can be as detailed as we like with the surroundings, but the void in unavoidable and seemingly impossible to detail.

    I just wonder if this case is slipping into the realm of "I reckon BLAH did it" and that's where it ends?

    I hope I'm wrong.
    Wonderllama, I have to agree with you. I like watching true crime, forensics, etc. and wonder exactly why this case hasn't been solved. Of coarse it is probably known whom the killer was and I seriously doubt there will ever be closure because of the dirty job so many left in it's wake.

    I have not read Kolars book either. Was told he felt it was PR that did it by a poster in confidence.

    We can continue to study the rope, the panties, the RN ... things we are prevy too. But it hasn't gotten us any closer to who is responsible for this tragedy. Like most of us here, I want justice for JB so bad! At this point in time I wonder if all we have is possibly FW when JR passes and who knows if even then? Honestly I won't hold out for BR because personally I feel he is involved. I can't imagine a parent being so brutal as to crush her skull, strangle her, sexually abuse her (leaving shards of paint brush inside her). I know it happens ..... just can't imagine the insanity of it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    Wonderllama, I have to agree with you. I like watching true crime, forensics, etc. and wonder exactly why this case hasn't been solved. Of coarse it is probably known whom the killer was and I seriously doubt there will ever be closure because of the dirty job so many left in it's wake.

    I have not read Kolars book either. Was told he felt it was PR that did it by a poster in confidence.

    We can continue to study the rope, the panties, the RN ... things we are prevy too. But it hasn't gotten us any closer to who is responsible for this tragedy. Like most of us here, I want justice for JB so bad! At this point in time I wonder if all we have is possibly FW when JR passes and who knows if even then? Honestly I won't hold out for BR because personally I feel he is involved. I can't imagine a parent being so brutal as to crush her skull, strangle her, sexually abuse her (leaving shards of paint brush inside her). I know it happens ..... just can't imagine the insanity of it.
    Flatlander, interesting sentence above...would you mind to share with us the meaning behind the 'poster in confidence'?...I did read Kolar's book and IMO Kolar didn't put PR on the 'top of the list'. Suprizingly for me, Kolar didn't spend much time on PR behavior...the majority of behavoir's flags were dedicated to JR and BR. So, I would be very much interested why the 'poster in confidence' think that Kolar 'felt it was PR that did it'??...Could you please share....Thank you in advance.

  6. #6
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    Like many intriguing mysteries that remained "unsolved" at the time, there is an answer and ironically it often becomes clear with time. As passions die and science improves it will generally be accepted that there was no intruder.

    I doubt many of us here on WS will forget Jonbenet or any other murdered child, while justice has not been done.

    The real question for me, as in the Madeleine McCann case and now Isa Celis, is, when is someone going to stand up and take action? When will charges be laid, and if they are not going to be laid, why not?

    That is for the population of the country involved...lobby your politicians mercilessly. They are all happiest if these cases just fade away.

    They won't.
    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
    Critical Thinking is often criticised.
    KISS

  7. #7
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    Sep 2011
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    45
    The problem with this case is we don't know where the first blow was struck.
    If we knew which room she received the head blow, we could possibly narrow the suspect list down.

    One thing for sure. When the head blow was delivered, JBR never stood again. We, also, know that the coronor noted dust and lint on JBR's bare feet when he first examined the body in her home early that evening. I've, always, believed this to be a very important clue. On Christmas morning, a
    picture, of JBR, shows her standing in her bare feet by the Christmas tree.
    It was normal for her to walk the house in pajamas and bare feet.

    Which room had dust and lint on the floor? That is the room where JBR received the head blow. After falling, she never walked again and never had a chance to brush the dust off her feet.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2009
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    PM

    Quote Originally Posted by OpenMind4U View Post
    Flatlander, interesting sentence above...would you mind to share with us the meaning behind the 'poster in confidence'?...I did read Kolar's book and IMO Kolar didn't put PR on the 'top of the list'. Suprizingly for me, Kolar didn't spend much time on PR behavior...the majority of behavoir's flags were dedicated to JR and BR. So, I would be very much interested why the 'poster in confidence' think that Kolar 'felt it was PR that did it'??...Could you please share....Thank you in advance.
    Sorry but it was Private messaged to me. So I won't state that persons name; they know who they are. Just stating that is was what I was told. If you had told me something in confidence (PM) I wouldn't repeat your name. I never thought it was PR (except for the cover up) and that is MOO. I can't tell you why this person offered to tell and then gave PR name. IMO BR did it. Thanks for telling me what Kolar actually thought about the who done it.
    Last edited by Flatlander; 10-01-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  9. #9
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    Flatlander, I don't think anyone wants to know the identity of your pm'er, only the reason why Kolar supposedly thinks PDI - especially since he seems to lean toward BDI in his book. If that information was given to you privately, it would probably have been better not to raise the issue at all - regardless of who told you.

  10. #10
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    Honesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnette View Post
    Flatlander, I don't think anyone wants to know the identity of your pm'er, only the reason why Kolar supposedly thinks PDI - especially since he seems to lean toward BDI in his book. If that information was given to you privately, it would probably have been better not to raise the issue at all - regardless of who told you.
    Bonnette, the poster offered the info. openly to anybody that was interested via pm. Since I have/had not read the book I was interested. Which makes the following post seem a little legit.

    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    i also took away that kolar believed it was PR (and BR). iirc, he stated in the epilogue that he believed JR might not have been aware of the events of that night until some time later on... which would nullify john's involvement entirely, right?

    some of those red flags were attributed to patsy... her peering through her fingers and staring at LE for instance. i wish i'd made a list of all the red flags while i had the book... maybe someone could take the time to do so?
    So is this a matter of opinion on the PR did it or what? Looks like redheadlegal deleted their post. Very confusing.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    Wonderllama, I have to agree with you. I like watching true crime, forensics, etc. and wonder exactly why this case hasn't been solved. Of coarse it is probably known whom the killer was and I seriously doubt there will ever be closure because of the dirty job so many left in it's wake.

    I have not read Kolars book either. Was told he felt it was PR that did it by a poster in confidence.

    We can continue to study the rope, the panties, the RN ... things we are prevy too. But it hasn't gotten us any closer to who is responsible for this tragedy. Like most of us here, I want justice for JB so bad! At this point in time I wonder if all we have is possibly FW when JR passes and who knows if even then? Honestly I won't hold out for BR because personally I feel he is involved. I can't imagine a parent being so brutal as to crush her skull, strangle her, sexually abuse her (leaving shards of paint brush inside her). I know it happens ..... just can't imagine the insanity of it.
    I agree as well. Not that it has fizzled, but that, at least for me, there is a sense of futility. That doesn't lessen my interest, but it does increase my frustration. I am committed to continue until the truth is PUBLICLY known. If that doesn't happen, it won't be for lack of people striving to uncover it.
    I think we ALL know that the police and DA have known for quite some time what happened to JB. The case won't be prosecuted because the case CAN'T be prosecuted.
    I have read Kolar's book, and the only direction I see him pointing in is BR. Patsy and JR are seen as involved in covering up.
    What is disheartening is knowing that they know. And knowing that the defense attorneys knew all along what happened as well. If they didn't know their clients were involved, how would they know what questions to NOT let them answer? The questions they were not allowed to answer, particularly Patsy, has always pointed much more to their guilt than any answer they might have given.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    So is this a matter of opinion on the PR did it or what? Looks like redheadlegal deleted their post. Very confusing.
    Kolar gets less and less straightforward as the book progresses, and is almost coy by the end of it. But my perception all the way through was that he thought BDI, with Patsy covering for him (hence her suspicious behavior from the get-go). I never got the impression from the book that Kolar thought Patsy actually killed JB - but for legal reasons, he couldn't actually come out and say, one way or the other. Steve Thomas did declare Patsy the killer, and he was practically eaten alive by Team Ramsey.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnette View Post
    Kolar gets less and less straightforward as the book progresses, and is almost coy by the end of it. But my perception all the way through was that he thought BDI, with Patsy covering for him (hence her suspicious behavior from the get-go). I never got the impression from the book that Kolar thought Patsy actually killed JB - but for legal reasons, he couldn't actually come out and say, one way or the other. Steve Thomas did declare Patsy the killer, and he was practically eaten alive by Team Ramsey.
    I don't want to be eaten here either...but SOMETIMES I'm very much believe in PR insanity and capability to do unspeakable...I cannot be 100% BDI without the knowledge of his capability....hence his medical files...

    JMO

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpenMind4U View Post
    I don't want to be eaten here either...but SOMETIMES I'm very much believe in PR insanity and capability to do unspeakable...I cannot be 100% BDI without the knowledge of his capability....hence his medical files...

    JMO
    No worries, you won't be eaten! Flatlander hasn't read Kolar's book, and was just wondering about his take on who did it, that's all.

    I wouldn't put anything past any of the Ramseys. JDI, PDI, BDI...that house was a hotbed of dysfunction.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnette View Post
    No worries, you won't be eaten! Flatlander hasn't read Kolar's book, and was just wondering about his take on who did it, that's all.

    I wouldn't put anything past any of the Ramseys. JDI, PDI, BDI...that house was a hotbed of dysfunction.
    agree...poor children!

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