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View Poll Results: Do you think Max's Razor scooter was involved in his fall?

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  • Yes

    54 84.38%
  • No

    10 15.63%

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  1. #1
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    Nov 2010
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    Do you think Max's scooter was involved in his fall?

    Do you think Max's Razor scooter was involved in his fall?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    4,892
    Yes, the paint transfer on the scooter and the dents/scrapes on the newel post and railing make that clear. Jonah's remarks that the scrapes on the newel post were new.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2012
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    When did Jonah say that the scrapes were new?

  4. #4
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    May 2009
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    Yes. The evidence is clear.
    If you're lucky enough to be at the beach, you're lucky enough.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    When did Jonah say that the scrapes were new?
    Hi Gilgamesh! It was cited in Dina's expert Dr. Bove's report. Jonah told Det. Adkins that the damage was not there the day before the accident.

    Snip from Dr. Bove's report -

    According to Officer Adkins and as shown in a police photograph there was part of a broken branch found in between the spindles of the railing leading from the landing to the second floor. He attributed the branch to the fake tree/plant located in the space between the stairs on the first floor. Officer Adkins also noted what he described as “recent damage to the top of the banister rail and the corner spindle at the top of the stairs.” He also noted paint chips near the corner “spindle.” Officer Adkins noted that there was no damage to the rest of the banister. According to Officer Adkins, he was told by Jonah Shacknai during an interview that the damage to the top hallway banister and the paint chips were not there the day before the incident.

    http://media.utsandiego.com/news/doc...ove_Report.pdf

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Yes I do believe Max had an accident involving his scooter. I believe there is evidence to support this in Dr. Bove's report.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    I think it is very likely the marks on the Newell Post and on Max's back came from the scooter.

    What I don't understand is why no one has tried to recreate how those marks could have been made on the scooter and the Newell Post.

    It seems it would be fairly easy to start with the same model/make of scooter and a clean painted Newell post. I've seem enough of kids trying to pull something or push it over such areas to know that could make the marks. And, there is one spot of paint on the metal area of the scooter (correct?).

    I'm uncertain all the marks on the post were made from one incident. Some could have been made earlier (in the morning?) and some later, during the accident. Or just two tries in a very short period of time. It could also be that Max tried to push or pull the scooter up there initially and then rearranged it on the banister, like at a lower point. IDK.

    Also, not quite understanding the paint on the tire coming from the top edge of that post. And, we don't know if it was enamel paint or what. I don't think some paint would rub off on a tire like that? If it did, would th ere be tire marks also where it rubbed off onto something? There are scuff marks on the wall in the photo (second floor across from the Newell Post).

    The marks on Max's back looks like he landed on the scooter - why can't those marks be measured by someone? And, matched to see?

  8. #8
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    Sep 2008
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    I have thought for a long time that Max's accident was somehow precipitated by his use of the scooter. I had thought that he flipped over with the scooter at the dip in the banister just going down the first stair, but the paint transfer to the wheel points more towards a trick on top of the newel post. The paint chip transfer to the wheel matches the missing paint at the left corner of the post from the photo. The diagonal of missing paint continuing on toward the center of the post matches the paint smear on the wheel. At some point the wheel turned as indicated by the smear.

    I would be interested in seeing a recreation as well.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Yes and no.

    -- The paint chip on the tyre... how does a paint chip get on the tyre? Someone lifts the scooter up. Really high.

    -- But why, if Max was trying to ride the rail or something, are those dents in one single small location and not all over the place, considering Max's small size and the swivelly nature of the scooter? The newel is too small an area, IMO, to be evidence that Max was lollygagging about trying a stunt.


    -- Max was only six years old. He wasn't very tall. The sheer physics of a child that size trying to lift a swivelly scooter onto a corner of a rail and then himself climb up (or climb up, balance, bend to get scooter, attempt to lift scooter, fall a long way in opposite direction) is.. just not working, in my head.

    It looks more to me like the scooter was banged hard several times against the rail in that one small place, and then possibly thrown over.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by elfie View Post
    I have thought for a long time that Max's accident was somehow precipitated by his use of the scooter. I had thought that he flipped over with the scooter at the dip in the banister just going down the first stair, but the paint transfer to the wheel points more towards a trick on top of the newel post. The paint chip transfer to the wheel matches the missing paint at the left corner of the post from the photo. The diagonal of missing paint continuing on toward the center of the post matches the paint smear on the wheel. At some point the wheel turned as indicated by the smear.

    I would be interested in seeing a recreation as well.
    Elfie, yes, I also agreed with your scenario. Your scenario made the best sense to me as to how the scooter went over the railing with Max. However, possibly a slight variation occurred. I would also like to see some recreations of possible scenarios. I hope at some point in the future this will happen. It would be worthwhile to put to rest all the unnecessary rumors.


  11. #11
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    Does anyone know if Max was wearing shoes when he fell?

  12. #12
    I am still wondering why the scooter was allowed on the second floor. There was a courtyard driveway to play in and a garage in which the scooter could be stored.

    I believe most parents would train their children to put away bikes and scooters in the garage against the walls somewhere. Some even install hooks on the walls for mounting. Obviously one would need to follow after a six year old to make sure they didn't leave their scooter/bike in the middle of the driveway.

    Is there is something inherently wrong with allowing the scooter on the inside of the house and on the second floor aside from the obvious danger and sanitation issues? Are there any parents who post here that allow bikes/scooters to be kept and played with indoors? I would love to hear a different take on this matter because it is not generally an commonly accepted practice in the circles with which I am familar.

  13. #13
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    In think a fight ensued with the scooter..it got banged against the newell..Max fought to keep his scooter from being thrown over and then in the process he was pushed against the bannister and fell over. Just a possible scenerio. One of many. I think someone was upset that he was still using his scooter in the house upstairs after being told not to.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetT View Post
    In think a fight ensued with the scooter..it got banged against the newell..Max fought to keep his scooter from being thrown over and then in the process he was pushed against the bannister and fell over. Just a possible scenerio. One of many. I think someone was upset that he was still using his scooter in the house upstairs after being told not to.
    SweetT - Exactly my thinking! Thank you for putting it in words. I do think the scooter was involved in his fall, but not that he was trying to ride it at the time. It was the catalyst, the incident that preceded his fall. And I do not believe it was in Rebecca's character to have fought with him over it. She would have gently reminded him. Thus IMO it would have been another authority figure, one was accustomed to sleeping in, and when awakened and found the scooter, was extremely annoyed. Always IMO.
    Where large sums of money are concerned, it is advisable to trust nobody. -- Agatha Christie


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carioca View Post
    SweetT - Exactly my thinking! Thank you for putting it in words. I do think the scooter was involved in his fall, but not that he was trying to ride it at the time. It was the catalyst, the incident that preceded his fall. And I do not believe it was in Rebecca's character to have fought with him over it. She would have gently reminded him. Thus IMO it would have been another authority figure, one was accustomed to sleeping in, and when awakened and found the scooter, was extremely annoyed. Always IMO.

    I don't agree with this scenario, but who was accustomed to sleeping in?

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