Why didn't the officer who searched the basement see the open broken window?

Seeker · Jan 31, 2005

John Ramsey states he closed the "broken" window, yet the officer who searched the basement didn't notice it? He was looking for a point of entry wasn't he, yet he doesn't notice this window being open, or broken?

I can understand his not opening the "wine cellar" door as it was clearly not a door that could be accessed or latched from the outside.

But why didn't he notice that broken OPEN window?...

Kardwella · Jan 31, 2005

Seeker said:
John Ramsey states he closed the "broken" window, yet the officer who searched the basement didn't notice it? He was looking for a point of entry wasn't he, yet he doesn't notice this window being open, or broken?

I can understand his not opening the "wine cellar" door as it was clearly not a door that could be accessed or latched from the outside.

But why didn't he notice that broken OPEN window?...

I've always wondered that, too. And, it makes me wonder what else was overlooked.

Eagle1 · Jan 31, 2005

And I meant to ask you in another thread, Seeker, do you care to tell us why you feel the perp may be living in Michigan? I forget what thread that was in, so I'm putting the question here.

Maybe John had already mentioned the window to the officer, and explained that he broke it himself? Just a guess. I don't really have an opinion on that. Maybe it means John knew it wasn't a point of entry, or maybe he just absentmindedly closed it.

Seeker · Feb 1, 2005

Check your PM's Eagle

No John didn't mention the window to the officer....according to everything we've ever been told he never mentioned it to anyone.

The officer was (supposedly) down there way before John, early in the morning. He was looking specifically for a point of entry yet he didn't notice any open windows or doors?
I forget which officer it was (French or Patterson maybe?) but it was the officer who said he couldn't open the wine cellar door.

Police were suppose to have "secured" the building and when Arndt arrived that is one of the things she said she asked about. She was told that the building had been secured.

My point is there is no way that any officer who was involved in securing the building and who was specifically looking for a point of entry would not have noticed an open, or broken window! So when was the window actually broken? And by whom?

BeeBee · Feb 1, 2005

I think it was broken when the officer was down there. But, I think the officer probably just wanted out of there as fast as possible. Probably didn't take time to notice a lot of things he should have. Fleet noticed it broken, didn't he? Don't know if he noticed it earlier when he was there alone since he didn't tell anyone about that trip at the time.

Seeker · Feb 1, 2005

BeeBee said:
I think it was broken when the officer was down there. But, I think the officer probably just wanted out of there as fast as possible. Probably didn't take time to notice a lot of things he should have. Fleet noticed it broken, didn't he? Don't know if he noticed it earlier when he was there alone since he didn't tell anyone about that trip at the time.

I don't know about FW's 1st trip down...maybe someday we will all know what he saw or heard. However, it wasn't his job to specifically look for a point of entry. I get the gut feeling that if FW had seen the window not only broken but open he would have pointed it out to the cops right away. I also believe he would have been and remained a staunch supporter of the Ramsey's as well if the window had been broken and open when he first went down there. Something made him suspicious of the Rams, something turned him quickly from supporting them and I don't believe it had anything to do with what some cop told him.

It was the officer's job and he should have noticed!

Either he didn't and wasn't doing his job thouroughly, or the window wasn't open.

Angie · Feb 2, 2005

Eagle1 said:
And I meant to ask you in another thread, Seeker, do you care to tell us why you feel the perp may be living in Michigan? I forget what thread that was in, so I'm putting the question here.

Maybe John had already mentioned the window to the officer, and explained that he broke it himself? Just a guess. I don't really have an opinion on that. Maybe it means John knew it wasn't a point of entry, or maybe he just absentmindedly closed it.

Hey, John and Patsy live in Michigan

TLynn · Feb 2, 2005

I had the same question about French - but when I read there was a chair blocking the door - I thought, perhaps, French was persuaded from going in there as well.

However, Seeker, I agree, if FW did see an open broken window, why didn't he say something?!

What if the window wasn't broken that morning - and when John realized there was no "entry" he broken it at 10 a.m. that morning while in the basement - which could explain why he didn't say anything after "discovering" it.

Also, when FW & John went to the basement together - FW picked up a shard of glass - maybe he was wondering what this broken window was all about.

gaia · Feb 5, 2005

I think the officer was not used to following protocol about securing a house where a child was missing. He was probably hyper and nervous and did a cursory search in the basement. Besides, he was told the child had been kidnapped. Armed with that knowledge, he probably believed the child certainly wasn't anywhere in the house. I'm certainly not supporting what the police did, but can see it happening this way.

close_enough · Feb 8, 2005

BeeBee said:
I think it was broken when the officer was down there. But, I think the officer probably just wanted out of there as fast as possible. Probably didn't take time to notice a lot of things he should have. Fleet noticed it broken, didn't he? Don't know if he noticed it earlier when he was there alone since he didn't tell anyone about that trip at the time.

i thought Fleet noticed it too, & John told him that he had broken it during the past summer, to get into the house...???....am i losing it??...i could swear that's what i read in Steve Thomas' book....hmmmm
i'll go back & look....i don't remember anything about LE noticing it though...

close_enough · Feb 8, 2005

ok....that's correct...Fleet pointed out the "baseball-sized" hole in the upper left pane of the middle window...."damn it, I had to break that", John said, adding that it had happened the previous summer when he kicked in the window to get into the house after locking himself out...the window was closed but un-latched.....then it goes on to say they left the train room & turned into another hallway....the room where JBR was found was "windowless"
....i guess LE overlooked the broken window in the train room....

ok, so i haven't finished the book yet....i'm assuming that John denied that he told Fleet this??...about the him breaking the window???

i'm trying to get as much info about this case as i can....that poor little girl

...only started really reading about it, recently...i thought i knew a lot about it, but i obviously don't....

BirdieBoo · Feb 8, 2005

I would think there would be a temperature difference in a room with a broken window, thus calling attention to it. Even in an unheated basement the basement is usually at least a little bit warmer than outside in wintertime. :twocents:

close_enough · Feb 8, 2005

Seeker said:
John Ramsey states he closed the "broken" window, yet the officer who searched the basement didn't notice it? He was looking for a point of entry wasn't he, yet he doesn't notice this window being open, or broken?

I can understand his not opening the "wine cellar" door as it was clearly not a door that could be accessed or latched from the outside.

But why didn't he notice that broken OPEN window?...

per Steve Thomas' book, Officer French was looking for "exit points from the house"...that's the reason the officer never tried to open the white door, where JBR was...it was locked from the outside w/some kind of screw bolt...

John never told Fleet that he had closed the window....when Fleet saw the broken window, & pointed it out to John, the window was closed, but un-latched.......
(sorry, i'm repeating myself)....posted this above also

close_enough · Feb 8, 2005

BirdieBoo said:
I would think there would be a temperature difference in a room with a broken window, thus calling attention to it. Even in an unheated basement the basement is usually at least a little bit warmer than outside in wintertime. :twocents:

true, one would think that....

close_enough · Feb 8, 2005

TLynn said:
I had the same question about French - but when I read there was a chair blocking the door - I thought, perhaps, French was persuaded from going in there as well.

However, Seeker, I agree, if FW did see an open broken window, why didn't he say something?!

What if the window wasn't broken that morning - and when John realized there was no "entry" he broken it at 10 a.m. that morning while in the basement - which could explain why he didn't say anything after "discovering" it.

Also, when FW & John went to the basement together - FW picked up a shard of glass - maybe he was wondering what this broken window was all about.

right....Fleet saw the broken window on the first trip downstairs, by himself...he picked up a piece of glass & laid it on the inside ledge of the window...the window was closed at that time, also.....he later pointed this window out, to John....at no point did Fleet see this window open....Fleet even un-latched the white door where JBR was found too....it was dark & he couldn't find the light switches, so he never saw her body...he closed the door & re-latched it....later he & John went back downstairs...that's when Fleet pointed out the broken closed window, to John....

RedChief · Feb 9, 2005

Is it significant that the wine cellar door had apparently been latched by the person who placed JonBenet's body there, in view of the unusual nature of the latching device? Recall that Officer Reichenbach was evidently stymied by it. Does this indicate a familiarity with the door and the latch? Is this evidence of an attempt to hide the body? Whereas placing the body in the wine cellar and closing and latching the door would succeed in hiding the body to a degree, couldn't the body have been more effectively hidden by placing it behind something within the cellar or piling something on top of it within the cellar? I should think that one of the crawl spaces would have been a better place to stash the body. I have always been bothered by this. Does it suggest that the perp was in a hurry?

If the perp's intention was only to kill JonBenet, why did he bother to hide the body? If the perp's intention was, whether initially or ultimately, to collect a ransom with a dead body, then hiding it as well as he could in the time allotted would make sense.

I can see that the ransom note might tend to obviate searching within the house, otherwise, of what need was the note?

Who is the mysterious LE?

Seeker · Feb 9, 2005

RedChief said:
Is it significant that the wine cellar door had apparently been latched by the person who placed JonBenet's body there, in view of the unusual nature of the latching device? Recall that Officer Reichenbach was evidently stymied by it. Does this indicate a familiarity with the door and the latch? Is this evidence of an attempt to hide the body? Whereas placing the body in the wine cellar and closing and latching the door would succeed in hiding the body to a degree, couldn't the body have been more effectively hidden by placing it behind something within the cellar or piling something on top of it within the cellar? I should think that one of the crawl spaces would have been a better place to stash the body. I have always been bothered by this. Does it suggest that the perp was in a hurry?

If the perp's intention was only to kill JonBenet, why did he bother to hide the body? If the perp's intention was, whether initially or ultimately, to collect a ransom with a dead body, then hiding it as well as he could in the time allotted would make sense.

I can see that the ransom note might tend to obviate searching within the house, otherwise, of what need was the note?

Who is the mysterious LE?

Good questions...LE=Law Enforcement.

Why didn't the officer who searched the basement see the open broken window?

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