CA CA - Anaheim, Wht/HispMale UP7683, 30-45, Suicide on Bike Path, Aug '93

Ambercat

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Unidentified White Male
Orange County Coroner’s Case # 93-05228-EY
NamUs UP # 7683
The Doe Network Case File 109UMCA

7465

Height 61 inches
Weight 146 lbs.
30 to 45 years old
NamUs lists him as being possibly Hispanic/Latino.
He had a Roman nose, medium length black hair, brown eyes and was dark-complexioned.

He was wearing a white, large, short-sleeve pullover golf shirt, beige 34"-36" pants with a brown belt, white socks and white tennis shoes. He wore a white metal Casio watch and was carrying a key ring with four keys. Extensive dentals, which can be seen on the Orange County Coroner Website.

He was found on August 28, 1993 at 22:41 (10:41 pm) on the bike trail north of 3899 Riverdale Avenue, Anaheim, CA 92807 (Orange County). This is near the intersection of Riverdale Ave and Tustin Ave and, also near the 91 (Riverside) Freeway and the 55 (Costa Mesa) Freeway.

Cause of death was a self-inflicted handgun wound.

http://egov.ocgov.com/ocgov/Sheriff-Coroner%20-%20Sandra%20Hutchens/Commands%20and%20Divisions/Professional%20Services%20Command/Coroner/Unidentified%20Dead/John%20DOES/93-05228-EY

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7683

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/109umca.html
 
Jose Manuel Gonzalez? He went missing from Montebello in Los Angeles County on December 9, 1989. He doesn't really have what I would describe as a "Roman nose" in his photo, the rest of his details are close.
image.aspx

http://dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=2799328500534
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/873dmca.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gonzalez_jose_manuel.html

George Tsolakis? He is heavier than the UID and Marlborough, CT is a really long way from Anaheim.
25241

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/3384/403
 
That would make Jose 47 at that time, which would be just outside the age range.

Is it me, or do Joses top two teeth look particularly shiney? That could be veneers.

Based on the physical resemblence which is excellent and the fact they are both very short, both have a bit of a monobrow, matching hairline and I suspect the teeth too, I would definitely submit Jose Manuel Gonzalez.

Fingerprints available for both. It would be a quick rule out.

That's a really nice find Ambercat!
 
It's about 26 miles from Montebello to 3899 E Riverdale Ave in Anaheim. I'll go ahead and ask.
 
I haven’t heard back from the Orange County Coroner about two UIDs, this man and the woman who killed herself in Dana Point (possibly being Ellen Linda Akers). The last time I heard from the Orange County Coroner was back in November of last year.

Unfortunately, I haven’t had as much time to dedicate to unidentified people lately because I moved from California to Florida because of my husband’s work (ugh). Originally, we were supposed to go to Idaho, but things didn’t really go as planned (it never does, LOL).

I am sort of embarrassed to e-mail them again because I already e-mailed once following up on Ms. Akers being the woman in Dana Point and was told that the OC Coroner had a huge influx of Dept of Justice inquiries in 2012 which they need to compare along with all the other groups we receive submissions from and they were very busy.
 
NamUs now lists one rule out for this UID -- Gregory Neveu from Virginia (I'm not sure who that is)
 
There are two more rule outs, besides Gregory Neveu -- James Rocap and Bennie Washington, both are from California. Jose Manuel Gonzalez hasn't been ruled out yet.
 
It appears that this man's case was recently modified on NamUs (date last modified May 05, 2015 11:52), although I'm not sure what has been changed. There are still three men listed as rule outs and Jose Manuel Gonzalez isn't one of the three.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7683
 
Jose Gonzales still hasn't been listed as a rule out -- should he be submitted again?

Either way, today marks 23 years since John Doe passed. :rose:
 
93-05228sketch-1509566040-3490.jpg


93-05228-ey_watch1-1509566076-8005.jpg

SAN JUAN CAPISTRANO, CA — Do you recognize any of these faces? In honor of Dia de los Muertos, a holiday to remember friends and family members who have died, the Orange County Sheriff Coroner is remembering some of their unidentified decedents from over the years and requesting the public's assistance to get them identified.
John Doe was found dead on Aug. 28, 1993 on bike trail in east Anaheim in an apparent suicide. He had been deceased only a short time before he was found. He was estimated to be 30-45 years old and possibly Hispanic or Middle Eastern. He was just over 5' and 146 pounds. He had curly black hair and a prominent nose with thick dark eyebrows. He was wearing a short-sleeved golf-type shirt, tan pants, white athletic shoes, a tan belt with brown leather buckle, and a Casio watch with a silver band on his left wrist. Case No. 93-05228-EY.
https://patch.com/california/founta...tos-oc-coroner-honoring-the-unidentified-dead
 
Jose Manuel Gonzalez? He went missing from Montebello in Los Angeles County on December 9, 1989. He doesn't really have what I would describe as a "Roman nose" in his photo, the rest of his details are close.
image.aspx

http://dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=2799328500534
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/873dmca.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gonzalez_jose_manuel.html

George Tsolakis? He is heavier than the UID and Marlborough, CT is a really long way from Anaheim.
25241

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/3384/403

Jose Gonzalez is still not a rule out on this Namus MP file #7683. Jose has a Namus file number of #18044 - DNA is not available. :(

I will email the UP file number to Jose's Namus Regional Administrator and ask for a comparison. Will post any response I receive.
 
Jose Gonzalez is still not a rule out on this Namus MP file #7683. Jose has a Namus file number of #18044 - DNA is not available. :(

I will email the UP file number to Jose's Namus Regional Administrator and ask for a comparison. Will post any response I receive.

Regional Administrator is out til 11/13....sigh.....will update with response when I get one.
 
Received response today....

Cindy,
*
Thank you for your submission, we appreciate your time and support.**
*
NamUs staff will review the submitted information.* Additionally, we will notify the investigating agencies for their consideration if the agencies have not been previously notified.*
*
Please note, identification and exclusions are only made and/or confirmed by investigating agencies.* The results of comparisons may or may not be made available to the public for investigatory reasons.
*
Thanks,
*
Dustin Driscoll
Regional System Administrator - AZ, CA, HI, NV
National Missing & Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
3500 Camp Bowie Blvd, 6th Floor
Fort Worth, TX 76107
 
Checked the Namus UP case 7683 today. Jose Gonzalez has been listed as a rule out. Back to looking for other possible matches.....
 
As I looked for potential matches for this UID I came across the following MP. I'm willing but not quite ready to submit Jose Rodriguez as a potential match to Anaheim John Doe (UP7683). :) I'd appreciate if you'd give any input you have. At that point I'll be ready to submit the potential match.

Meanwhile, I'll start a thread in '1990s Lost But Not Forgotten' for Jose Rodriguez. Then I'll do a little more searching to see if I can find any more details on Mr. R (i.e., business type/location, financial situation, relationship status, interest in golfing/sports, knowledge of area near the biking trail where our UID was discovered, etc.).

TIA!
#
MP18044. Jose Gonzales. 12/09/89 Los Angeles
-------- Gregory Never ---- VA
James Rocap CA
Bennie Washington CA

Map showing mileage and distance between last known location and place of discovery.

Google Maps

Potential Match #1 - Jose Rodriguez 63yo 03/05/1993 Los Angeles, CA

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Jose Rodriguez – The Charley Project


Mr. Rodriguez
Original




Sketch of UID7683
Original


Comparison

DEMOGRAPHICS -
UID Demographics in green alongside MP's demos.

Missing Age 63 Years. 30-45.
Date Missing - 03/05/1993 Date Found - 08/28/93 Estimated Year Death - 1993

Current Age 89 Years
First Name. Jose
Middle Name--
Last Name. Rodriguez
Nickname/Alias--

Sex Male. Male
Height. 5' 5" (65 Inches) 5' 1"(61 inches) , Measured
Weight. 150 lbs. 146 lbs, Measured
Race / Ethnicity - White / Caucasian, Hispanic / Latino.
White / Caucasian, Hispanic / Latino

Hair - Gray or Partially Gray
Black. Up to 2 1/2 inches in length

Eyes - Brown Brown
Scars/Marks - On face. Beard, sideburns and mustache stubble
Other distinctive physical characteristic
Roman nose (I had to look this up :oops: )

Tattoo - Tattoo on left forearm of flowers, tattoo on right arm of a sword through a heart. None noted by NamUs.
Clothing - Gray pants, gray and white shirt, gray jacket.
Clothing - Large golf shirt. Tan 34"-36" pants. On the Body
Jewelry - Casio watch On the Body

Footwear - Maroon boots. White athletic shoes. On the Body.

Original


The missing person was last seen at his business in Los Angeles by workers on 03-05-1993.

UID Circumstances of Recovery - Self-inflicted handgun wound. All parts recovered. Recognizable face.

Comparisons - All in VA.
UP14360
UP12163
UP13739
UP6303
UP6304
UP6278
UP6638
UP6315

Discussion w/ speculation and opinion based on either fact or intuition:

Our UID appears to be a middle-aged, wht/hisp/Latino male who was found deceased. Investigators determined the UID committed suicide by use of a handgun. In UID's post mortem photo it appears that he is somewhat clean shaven besides light stuble aka a 5 O'clock shadow. His clothing is described similar to perhaps a Polo type golfing shirt, khaki pants, and white athletic shoes (perhaps golfing shoes?). His hair seems dark black maybe with gray strands here and there, IMO not even enough to consider as "salt & pepper". It's even possible that the "white" I see could be glare from lighting or a flash, most especially if the UID had styled his hair with a gel, oil, or hair cream of some sort.

Mr. Rodriguez' picture, although aged and grainy, shows a middle-aged hispanic/Latino male who appears well kempt, moreso than say what one might expect a long time homeless, middle-aged man would look. He has a very dark mustache which matches his black hair. NamUs describes his hair as "gray or partially gray". Seriously, unless I am color blind (even then, I don't think black, gray, or white colors are usually affected by color-blindedness), Mr. Rodriguez's hair appears to me to be jet black. At best he might have some gray strands but I don't see any gray. His hair is so black it blends into the black background which helps to make the twinkle-like lights to his right above his head stand out. Also note the glare on his right ear.

Mr. R and Anaheim UID's ages differ by ~18 years from the high end of UID's estimated age range of 30-45. I can't explain this away except that the UID's age is estimated and we often see once a match is made that there was a discrepancy between an estimated age and a MPs age. Admittedly though, the difference isn't usually this large, I don't think. Four inches and four pounds is the difference between the two and here again we're dealing with estimations which are prone to mistakes and inaccuracies as well as potential measurement error(s) or equipment accuracy/validity.

There are no mention of tattoos on UID while Mr. R was reported to have at least two tattoos and a "scar/marks" on his face. Those marks are not clear on his picture but the UID's post mortem photo gives an up-close view of many of his facial marks which are mostly tiny to small moles or discolorations. I don't see major scars or blemishes but when I zoom in it does appear either the UID or his pic or both were touched up, so it could be that any scars were covered or altered. Also keep in mind that this was a suicide using a handgun. If the gunshot was to another area of his head, it could result in bruising and/or discolorations on his face (I think).

The features that strike me most about this comparison are the hairlines and the Roman nose. After my Roman nose hunt I compared the noses. IMO, this is the same nose! I can't tell if it's a Roman nose because the UID's PM pic is straight on and slightly from above. Same with the artist's sketch of the UID. But, the tips of the noses on all three photos looks almost identical to me. In each case the tip looks to be round and pointed downward while the nostrils all flare approximately the same amount.

The description of their clothing is different and dissimilar. Keeping in mind that Mr. Rodriguez was last seen leaving the business establishment he owned some five months before the UID was discovered, imo the UID was wearing clothing that could have conceivably been worn by Mr. Rodriguez. It's not as unusual to see a business man in a golfing shirt, khakis, and athletic shoes as it would be if the UID had been discovered wearing baggy blue jeans, a white wife beater shirt, boots, and a red, blue, black, or any other color handkerchief around his head. I could even imagine Mr. Rodriguez wearing that Seico watch!

There is a 5-month span between Mr. Rodriguez's disappearance and the discovery of our UID. My theory is that Mr. Rodriguez, a business owner, may have fallen onto hard times, most likely financial, criminal (not trying to be victim-unfriendly, i'll explain), romantic/personal, or any combination thereof. I didn't reasearch yet, but this was the early nineties. I wonder if this was around the time when the Internet/high-tech. products boomed then busted for many CA companies and investors. I couldn't find any info on what type of business Mr. R owned but it's not unrealistic that whatever kind of business it was, it could have certainly been negatively affected by the various 90s business/investment busts.

Another theory is perhaps Mr. R's business was a front for some type of criminal organization (think gangs, drugs, cartels/mafia, etc.) that was about to be busted by the Feds or the guys in charge of running the CA branch of the dirty organization could have gotten caught up in stealing from or ratting out the bosses (e.g., snitching on cartel leaders or lying about a drug shipment/sale, etc). I don't know but I'm thinking like gang/cartel/maphia movies. You know? Seriously NOT victim blaming rather I'm guessing based on stereotypes, movies, random crime reports, etc.

A lost love, a tarnished reputation, shame and anguish from the loss of years of hard earned money, fear of death and revenge for ratting on the bosses or others even though it might have been a necessary evil to save one of Mr. Rodriguez's loved ones or the fear of a long, tortuous kidnapping with days of suffering before his ultimate death due to a moment of weakness--mischievously taking what wasn't his but only because who would miss it? They make so many billions peddling their black market goods; certainly they'd agree his loyalty he freely gave to the Boss over years, decades actually, was worth more than the piddly few how ever much money he skimmed. Whatever the situation was I theorize that he took whatever little cash or assets he managed to grab ahold of and he split and went off grid. He maybe lived off a few thousand or so dollars, hoping to maybe make it long enough to start over again, but alas, it wasnt to be. Unfortunatrly, after a few months in hiding he chose to end his suffering once he deplete his financial means to survival.

Again, my theories are all MOO. I think I covered everything in my comparison. If you have any input it'll be appreciated. I'll keep checking a couple of other MPs I came across in my search, but Mr. Rodriguez gets a 8 out of 10 on my matchometer.
 
:) I've decided to submit Jose Rodriguez as a potential match to Anaheim Doe. Imo he deserves a test. Hopefully they'll have all the DNA, dentals, prints, etc. to compare. I'll report back if/when I receive any correspondence. I'll work on getting in touch with case contacts Monday (2/25/19).

Fingers crossed!
 
What a sad case and how dreadful for the person that found this decedent. At 5'1" and recognisable, one would hope that an ID will be forthcoming at some point. Just bumping for him this New Year.
 

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