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  1. #1
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    The Resistance...I get it.

    I believe the McCanns are involved in their daughter's death and/or disappearance.

    The evidence is just too compelling to think otherwise, in my view.

    Even feeling as I do, I watched a video of them speaking and I believed them...or should I say, I experienced the overwhelming desire to believe them.

    I get it, I really do.

    I understand why people are so strongly supportive of them. They are very, very credible. You want so badly to believe them.

    They don't skip a beat (unless you look very closely). They are the young and competent professional you want to examine you next time you feel a lump or something. You

    .

    Might they be innocent as claimed?

    Yes, they might. They certainly put on a fantastic display of it. Maybe they even believe it now. Maybe they have bargained so much guilt away as being in the interests of their remaining children that what they did seems completely justified and they even FEEL innocent.



    Despite what I want to believe, what I DID believe for that few minutes of video, my logical, straight-line thinking brain will just not allow it. Every shred of common sense and intelligence I have has tells me they are guilty as sin...but I can empathise from where other's faith comes from. This thread isn't for arguing the details of the case, just for me to say - I get it.

    Ironically, it's this very credibility I believe the McCanns have used to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, including those politicians who now just want the whole thing to go away. They believed them too. There are a lot of people now trying to distance themselves from the whole saga.

    It's just almost unbelievable. But then truth often is stranger than fiction.

    As usual, this is my opinion only.

    Last edited by Salem; 11-21-2012 at 01:28 PM. Reason: You look at it your way and leave others to look at it theirs. No need to tell them how to think.
    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
    Critical Thinking is often criticised.
    KISS

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireSteel View Post
    I believe the McCanns are involved in their daughter's death and/or disappearance.

    The evidence is just too compelling to think otherwise, in my view.

    Even feeling as I do, I watched a video of them speaking and I believed them...or should I say, I experienced the overwhelming desire to believe them.

    I get it, I really do.

    I understand why people are so strongly supportive of them. They are very, very credible. You want so badly to believe them.

    They don't skip a beat (unless you look very closely). They are the young and competent professional you want to examine you next time you feel a lump or something.

    The thing is, . .

    Might they be innocent as claimed?

    Yes, they might. They certainly put on a fantastic display of it. Maybe they even believe it now. Maybe they have bargained so much guilt away as being in the interests of their remaining children that what they did seems completely justified and they even FEEL innocent.



    Despite what I want to believe, what I DID believe for that few minutes of video, my logical, straight-line thinking brain will just not allow it. Every shred of common sense and intelligence I have has tells me they are guilty as sin...but I can empathise from where other's faith comes from. This thread isn't for arguing the details of the case, just for me to say - I get it.

    Ironically, it's this very credibility I believe the McCanns have used to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, including those politicians who now just want the whole thing to go away. They believed them too. There are a lot of people now trying to distance themselves from the whole saga.

    It's just almost unbelievable. But then truth often is stranger than fiction.

    As usual, this is my opinion only.

    This is extremely patronising.
    Last edited by Salem; 11-21-2012 at 01:27 PM. Reason: snipped quoted post

  3. #3
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    Actually people belive them because there is no evidence against them, and it is impossible for madeleine to have been moved from the flat by her parents in the time they had available and for her not to have been found that night.

    Perhaps there is a reason why successful people in the public eye support them,.
    Last edited by Salem; 11-21-2012 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Uncalled for! Knock it off.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireSteel View Post
    I believe the McCanns are involved in their daughter's death and/or disappearance.

    The evidence is just too compelling to think otherwise, in my view.

    Even feeling as I do, I watched a video of them speaking and I believed them...or should I say, I experienced the overwhelming desire to believe them.

    I get it, I really do.

    I understand why people are so strongly supportive of them. They are very, very credible. You want so badly to believe them.

    They don't skip a beat (unless you look very closely). They are the young and competent professional you want to examine you next time you feel a lump or something. You

    .

    Might they be innocent as claimed?

    Yes, they might. They certainly put on a fantastic display of it. Maybe they even believe it now. Maybe they have bargained so much guilt away as being in the interests of their remaining children that what they did seems completely justified and they even FEEL innocent.



    Despite what I want to believe, what I DID believe for that few minutes of video, my logical, straight-line thinking brain will just not allow it. Every shred of common sense and intelligence I have has tells me they are guilty as sin...but I can empathise from where other's faith comes from. This thread isn't for arguing the details of the case, just for me to say - I get it.

    Ironically, it's this very credibility I believe the McCanns have used to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, including those politicians who now just want the whole thing to go away. They believed them too. There are a lot of people now trying to distance themselves from the whole saga.

    It's just almost unbelievable. But then truth often is stranger than fiction.

    As usual, this is my opinion only.


    I too gave the benefit of the doubt for a very long while, despite a lot of misgivings, i approached many issues from as an objective viewpoint as possible but as things started to stack up in the red flag pile i couldnt mistrust my own judgement for any longer

    That is not to say there isnt alot of rubbish on the net still about this case but I know what is and what isnt now and the red flags just wont go away

    lets face it if there werent any no one would be here but they are and there is a case to answer, who is going to make them answer it is anyones guess

  5. #5
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    Lol the mods have been in I see.



    I'm hoping something will come of this Operation Grange (but not holding my breath) but just as importantly, the Portugese co-investigation.

    Andy Redmond does not inspire hope but the PJ team at Oporto do. They have no reason to wish to reopen this mess, yet they have, and it has cost them a lot of money to do it.

    My heart sank to the floor when I heard the opinion spouted by AR one quarter of the way through the SY proceedings, but surely there's some transparency to the review. Time will tell. If there isn't, I can only hope the stodgily uncurious British Public will demand it...or at the very least, rouse out of their bovine complacency long enough to query another whitewash, if it occurs.



    I do believe in natural justice at times, and karma, and I can only keep hoping that these people will some day be compelled to answer some very important questions, in a court of law.

    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
    Critical Thinking is often criticised.
    KISS

  6. #6
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    I saw a clip of the McCanns talking, as I alluded to in my first post.

    I so believed them. Their way of telling what happened was so natural, smooth, flawless.

    They are "nice" people. The sort of gorgeous young professional family you hope to become. Not the sort of people to hurt or hide their children, and then lie about it.

    The problem is twofold - the physical evidence, and the deceptiveness.

    Either one on its own, maybe. Both together?

    The likliehood of a child being kidnapped by a stranger are very low, Klass Kids says 24%.
    http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-mcstatistics.htm

    Now add in the fact that there has never been such an event either before or since, in the entire world. This zaps another few percentages off the likliehood stats.

    Then, the dogs, alerting only to items belonging to the McCanns, alone in a very large resort.

    Then the former lead detective, losing his position and his reputation but still firm in his belief of their guilt.

    Then add in Tanners lies.

    Then the forensics...the chances of DNA swabs of "bodily fluids" turning out to belong only to a child of Kate and Gerry's - only one of whom is missing, must put the odds right over the top of believability by now - but apparently not for some;

    The whole load of bs with the shutters and the doors.

    The profiteering, the relishing of the spotlight, their jolly demeanor on Madeleines 4th birthday, the refusal to cooperate, the Renault...

    Some things explainable in isolation, others not so much...but each troubling, unanswered fact is another brick in the wall of Please Explain.

    Vs. Proof of the abductor which is....0.

    Yes, that's right. After all the investigators and money, there is still exactly zero evidence of any kind of anyone taking Madeleine anywhere, apart from the Smith sighting of Gerry.

    What are the chances of all that just happening, on the very last night of a holiday, seriously? If you had to calculate it out they would be something in the order of five trillion to one. It is literally almost statistically impossible for what they say happened, to have happened. Does this not weigh at all on the McCann supporters personal scale of WTH?

    You would have more chance of winning Lotto three times over three years in a row.




    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
    Critical Thinking is often criticised.
    KISS

  7. #7
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    Sorry, I've never found them convincing at all. I've found them cold and detached. Any "emotion" appears fake to me.

    Now that doesn't mean they are guilty of anything, but that's how I feel when I watch them.

  8. #8
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    Can totally see where your coming from SS. As i said in a previous post from my experience 1 lie or 1 story not matching another normally is very very telling.

    2 things that get me and again from experience is that if the parents did it, how did they conceal the body so well that to date it has never been retrieved. Lets not forget they were on holiday so they wouldn't be overly comfortable or knowledgable with the seaside town.

    Mr Smith a fellow Irish man is 1 million per cent certain that the man he seen carrying the child down a street was Gerry McCann. Any doubt he had was quickly dismissed the minute he saw Gerry on tv carrying one of the twins of an aeroplane. The position of the child was the same, his gait was the same, his walk was the same everything matched Gerry. Even his wife who has distanced herself from the case believes it was Gerry, and has distanced herself because she just can't believe the parents committed this crime.

  9. #9
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    I've posted this before, but I think the reason Madeleine's body has never been found is that it is in the ocean. In the statements, it says the ocean is just a five-minute walk from the resort. The McCanns did go there at least once, and may have also gone running down by the ocean as well - both parents went for runs almost every day. I don't know about this resort, but at places I've stayed near the ocean the tides have been posted (or could easily be looked up).

    I don't live near the ocean, but I am near one of the Great Lakes (Ontario) and I know that bodies that go into the water are often never seen again. It's even more true in the ocean.

    If her body had been washed up at some point, it's likely that any evidence of how, why or at whose hands she died would have been destroyed, so it was a low-risk decision.

    Tink

  10. #10
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    I would absolutely agree with this scenario but for one thing - the cadaver in the Renault 20 days later.

    Pretty much the only way that was possible is if a refrigerated Madeleine had been deposited in there, according to Amaral. Burial of some sort would not have resulted in fluids, and they shouldn't have found cadaver at all.

    Then there's this largely forgotten gem from - guess who - one David Payne, who is all over this mess and not in a good way -

    Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they’d had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well.
    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

    I think they may have hidden her on the beach in the early hours, then in a vacant unit somewhere that someone had knowledge of. There is a small army of Brits living in PDL, and another army again of Brit holiday home owners with houses that sit vacant most of the year. It is very cliquey and they all know each other, as they tend to be of the same social echelon as the Tapas.

    My theory is, someone knew that someone was safely back in England and so knew their PDL house was vacant. Maybe the garage door was easily opened, perhaps someone had boasted they never bother to lock their doors while they were away as it's so safe there, or even mentioned a key under a pot in passing. I believe Madeleine went somewhere like that within the first 12 hours, if not straight away.

    Beach first (maybe), vacant holiday house after. Then to the Renault and off the coast of whereever they went on that long trip they did.

    The poor little thing is definitely in the sea, maybe not that night and not off PDL.
    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
    Critical Thinking is often criticised.
    KISS


  11. #11
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    I had wondered if perhaps the cadaver scent or fluid in the rental car could have been transferred? If Madeleine was hidden (perhaps in David's apartment) initially, and then moved three or four hours later, there might have been some transfer onto a blanket or clothes Gerry was wearing when she carried her to the water? These were then stashed temporarily in David's apartment, and tossed at some point into the car before being thrown away? Would that leave enough to be detected?

    While the idea of putting your child's body in a fridge or freezer feels so horrifying to me, I know it's been done in the past. Remember the Sims case? (I think that was the name?) The mother killed her baby then put the body in the grandparents' freezer (they were on holiday); before they returned she removed the body and put it in a trash can.

    Tink

  12. #12
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    To quote Amaral, the "fluid" found (which was never identified as blood) was from a defrosting Madeleine and could not have got there any other way.

    "The cadaver was frozen"

    Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

    Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

    Q.
    How can you state that?

    A.Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk's right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it's the only way to explain what happened there.

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id139.html

    I can well imagine them just being able to pop her in a freezer somewhere and shutting the door, thereby closing their minds to what they'd done. By preserving her still looking as perfect as if she were asleep, they would be able to bluff out the media and LE and convince themselves they were doing the "right thing" and their only crime was hiding her body.

    They have never owned any responsiblity for what happened to her so they clearly don't feel any. I think they genuinely believe they only committed a very minor crime and shouldn't lose everything because of it.
    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
    Critical Thinking is often criticised.
    KISS

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireSteel View Post
    To quote Amaral, the "fluid" found (which was never identified as blood) was from a defrosting Madeleine and could not have got there any other way.

    "The cadaver was frozen"

    Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

    Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

    Q.
    How can you state that?

    A.Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk's right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it's the only way to explain what happened there.

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id139.html

    I can well imagine them just being able to pop her in a freezer somewhere and shutting the door, thereby closing their minds to what they'd done.
    Assuming that Madeleine's body was put in a freezer, imo it means that the McCanns also must have had someone who helped them do it by giving them acces to a freezer big enough to hold the body.

  14. #14
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    Interesting theory about the freezer. I'm not sure I buy into it b/c I believe that if the McCanns are guilty, then no one else is in on it. You would literally be trusting your friends with your life and theirs, too, if they were to cover and then be 'found out' later. As far as vacant homes, I think that seems unlikely.

    It does seem that, being physicians, the McCanns may think about the odor of a decomposing body and therefore think of trying to keep a body cold until they could dispose of her further. If this is true, then I'm leaning towards a large cooler somewhere...?

    Here's the problem: they were being watched like hawks afterwards - I think they'd have a hard time moving her later without being detected. (It's been so long since I've sleuthed this case that I've forgotten about any gaps in time where their location was unknown after she was reported).

    I'm leaning towards her being disposed of that night, probably in the ocean. Whether she was walked down to the beach or driven to another location along the coast, I don't know. But weren't there some gaps from going to check on her - when her father went from the restaurant? What's the longest time one of the parents were missing from the last time she was seen that day until reported missing?
    Fly high and free, Jhessye ~

    My posts are meant to help think through possibilities and are strictly an additional opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error. Please understand that much of what is happening is merely brainstorming during unfortunate events.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    Assuming that Madeleine's body was put in a freezer, imo it means that the McCanns also must have had someone who helped them do it by giving them acces to a freezer big enough to hold the body.
    It helps to understand Praia De Luz a little bit.

    The place is packed to the rafters with Englishmen. Wealthy ones...of the same social circles as the Tapas crew. They all know each other, for example Martin Smith knew Robert Murat simply from seeing him in the local pub and about PDL over the years.

    Many Brits maintain holiday homes in PDL which are vacant 11 months of the year.

    PDL is a very small village, very quiet, even cars are unusual as most people get about on foot.

    I believe that Payne or the McCann not only knew where there was a vacant holiday home (perhaps belonging to an acquaintance), they also knew where to find the key.

    Kate and Gerry both took long, solitary runs around PDL. Those who claim that they were in an unknown environment are quite wrong. They had both been all over town, separately and together. As the town is tiny, I would go so far as to say they were both very familiar with it, by the end of their holiday.

    Familiar enough to have found a quiet corner to hide a tiny body.
    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
    Critical Thinking is often criticised.
    KISS

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