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  1. #31
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    Daughters' school shooting changed my life (Bob Williamson, USA Today)
    ---
    Experts say the closer you are to the epicenter of violence, the longer the healing process. Our daughters heard the gunshots, the cries, the running feet, but fortunately they did not see the killer in the deadly act. They were spared the long-term trauma of some of their schoolmates. Yes, children heal, and adults do, too, but memories and scars linger.
    ---
    the story - the Winnetka IL elementary school shootings, 1991 - at the link
    Marx: "Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Here's a thought..........

    And this is "just a thought" ...................

    Instead of putting weapons on school grounds to deter a shooter what about "remote monitoring" - meaning cameras? I am "rabidly" for cameras in schools - EVERYWHERE! (well not in bathrooms, shower/locker rooms of course).

    While school shootings are horrible, horrific events - everyday we read about "this teacher that slept with a student" or "that teacher that slapped around a special needs child" - with cameras in classrooms I do believe that would dern near stop.

    I've always wanted a camera in my classroom - I do nothing wrong, so what's the problem?

    Funny story - years ago - the school I was in had hallway cameras but none in the classrooms. What we did have was a combined fire, carbon monoxide, alarm thingy that was up at the ceiling in a corner of the room. It had red and green lights. Through the years I had my share of behavior problems - so one day I pointed to that box and told them "see that? There's a camera in there so when I take you to lunch I'm going to the office to review the footage" (I think I had a case where one of the students had come up missing the $20.00 bill mom have given her to pay on her lunch account). But that small act - after that - the kids were always "mindful" of that little box up in the corner.

    Were they cameras? No. But even if it was - what's the problem? I've asked over the years about putting cameras in classrooms and I'm always faced with teachers, administrators, and the unions telling me "no way - that's not going to work - its an infringement of the bargaining agreement" or whatever silly excuse they use.

    We have the technology now to remotely monitor our front doors, speak with a visitor through your phone, and the elderly programs with the little necklace that has an emergency button on it if they are in need.

    Remote monitored cameras are a good idea but in a case like Sandy Hook - we're still faced with response time by LE. But also in a case like Sandy Hook - even if an armed resource officer had been on campus what is the likelihood of him being in that area as is occurred? Even IF Victoria Soto or Dawn Hochsprung had access to a weapon - they wouldn't have had time to get to it.

    There is no one solution to fixing our schools - but I truly believe cameras (monitoring) should be a huge part. We have daycare facilities now that have monitoring cameras so parents can log-in at work to see what their children are doing. HUGE GREAT IDEA!!!

    We have to work together to keep our children safe.




    JMHO
    RE: Remote monitored cameras are a good idea but in a case like Sandy Hook - we're still faced with response time by LE.

    'Wise Old Owl, the response time by LE, may have been as long as 10 minutes from the first 911 call of the Sandy Hook school shooting, based on available timeline reports.
    As in most emergencies, time is of the essence to insure public safety. The Sandy Hook school was only a rocks throw from a Fire Station. Many times the Fire Department's response time is much faster than police.
    Fire & Police; both public safety officials, have been cross trained to work effectively in many emergency situations.

    Consolidation - was used to describe the merger of fire and
    police departments and their roles.

    Pros & Cons:

    The mission of the Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport Police and Fire Department is to protect Life and property by providing professional police, firefighting, and emergency medical services.

    http://dot.alaska.gov/anc/business/p...re/index.shtml

    http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local...fighter-duties

    Town merges police officer, firefighter duties

    WHITESTOWN, Ind. (WISH) - Police officers will soon be fighting fires and firefighters will soon be carrying guns in Whitestown. The town is set to graduate its first class of cross trained first responders

    Fire and Police Consolidation: An Ineffective Use of - IAFF
    http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastingsChi View Post
    I'm saying that an acquaintance's comments about someone are not as fully developed or reliable as a close friend, professional colleague who one works closely with or family member's comments. (I don't think this statement is a revolutionary, new discovery; I think almost everyone would agree it is a well accepted truth)

    As a former member of the media I understand the role and objectives of the media. My professional background as a former journalist provides me with a unique insight into news coverage and the strength of credibility of a published or broadcast report.

    With that in mind, I have witnessed a lot of speculation being published on the front page of the Tri-State newspapers and leading local and national coverage of this tragedy. Why do I refer to this as speculation? Simply put: almost none of the statements regarding Adam Lanza or his victim Nancy Lanza have been double sourced. For example, a story that got major coverage was that Adam Lanza targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School because Joshua Flashman stated “From what I’ve been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed.” “Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.” Unfortunately following the "news" from Flashman being published and broadcast and the talking head shrinks endlessly discussing this being the motive, Flashman's father, Richard Flashman, a pastor at Beacon Hill Evangelical Free Church released a statement that Joshua's comments were based on rumor and speculation and should not be taken as fact.

    This is just one of countless examples of what is being widely reported by countless media outlets as "news" whereas in many examples, in reality it is simply rubbish. [Do we even know if Adam even owned a copy of Call of Duty or similar games or even a gaming console that one could play such games? Do we know if the basement that Adam lived in was covered in posters of various military equipment? Do we know how Nancy stored her firearms or if she took her son's to the gun range?]

    It is times like this that we as the public need to step back and examine the larger picture of the tragedy and the media to allow the families of the victims to grieve without a camera being shoved in their face for ratings.
    Well-said, but in the meantime, between the event and the officially sanctioned version, what - a censorship of silence?

    An informed public becomes informed largely because it is given the opportunity to read accounts, and to judge what in them is worthy of belief, and what is not.

    I too have a background in journalism. But I trust that the American public is able to make informed decisions.
    Marx: "Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen."

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Here's a thought..........

    ..... technology now to remotely monitor our front doors, speak with a visitor through your phone, and the elderly programs with the little necklace that has an - even if an armed resource officer had been on campus what is the likelihood of him being in that area as is occurred? Even IF Victoria Soto or Dawn Hochsprung had access to a weapon - they wouldn't have had time to get to it.

    There is no one solution to fixing our schools - but I truly believe cameras (monitoring) should be a huge part. We have daycare facilities now that have monitoring cameras so parents can log-in at work to see what their children are doing. HUGE GREAT IDEA!!!

    We have to work together to keep our children safe.




    JMHO
    ITA!!! so far I've read 2 great (NOT horribly expensive) ideas:

    1- Cameras throughout schools
    2- 2 exit doors in Each classroom, (either interconnecting classrooms, or to the exterior. (all school buses have 2 exits)
    3- .....
    Last edited by 4MYGUYS; 12-21-2012 at 02:32 PM. Reason: spelin

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by time View Post
    BBM - I HAVE read that. Nancy had the final decision should there be a dispute too. My comment does not further your point 'that Nancy Lanza is being crucified by the media'. Nancy had the guns, that is what the media is pointing out. It's not dad vs mom. We have a right, maybe not in this forum, but elsewhere, to question this.
    We don't know if Adam Peter Lanza's father Peter owned guns either; but no one seems to raise that question because it is easier to blame a murder victim who is not in a position to respond to such things...

  6. #36
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    Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and normally I just lurk and read. I find this forum very interesting and I enjoy reading your discussions from real people regarding this tragedy as well as others. I do have a question, and I am aware that there is a gun control thread and this may be a post for that thread, but the question is regarding what happened in conneticut so I am not quite sure where to post it. I am not looking to point fingers or anything, more looking for answers to enlighten myself. I know that the NRA just made their statement today, and this post is completely devoid of opinion and is not meant to be assumed as an accusation or anything in any way. I am curious to know if anyone has looked into whether either the shooter or the mother were part of the NRA. This is not meant to cause any ruckus and please, if it is inappropriate to ask this question, inform me, either mod or otherwise as I would like to maintain the integrity of this site and forum to the best of my abilities. Is there any way to determine if they were members? I am very curious regarding this issue.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastingsChi View Post
    We don't know if Adam Peter Lanza's father Peter owned guns either; but no one seems to raise that question because it is easier to blame a murder victim who is not in a position to respond to such things...
    AL didn't use his father's guns, and his father didn't live with AL. So what difference would it make?
    Just my opinion

  8. #38
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    Hello and welcome to WS, Alicia_marie!
    Marx: "Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    We know that NL is purchased a number of guns, including all the guns AL used in the shooting.
    Also, NL reportedly took AL to gun ranges to teach him how to shoot.
    Considering AL had all his issues, this does not appear to be a good idea. If she wanted to teach him responsibility, a less dangerous hobby might have been a much better idea.
    That's what people have a problem with.
    You know this bothered me as well. I am a big defender of the right to bear arms. I know that I read it had been 6 months or so since she had taken him, and wondered when she did take him was it when he was still in a "good" place in life. I know that in the week or so before it was said that she felt that she was losing him. But I am holding out on the police report on just how AL did get access to the weapons. She seemed to be a responsible person.
    It's my opinion if no link provided.


    Misspellings due to fat fingers

    Words matter.

    You don't know what you don't know.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastingsChi View Post
    We don't know if Adam Peter Lanza's father Peter owned guns either; but no one seems to raise that question because it is easier to blame a murder victim who is not in a position to respond to such things...
    Well if he did that is really not the issue, UNLESS he had an arsenal like NL with disturbed individuals living in his home.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elley Mae View Post
    You know this bothered me as well. I am a big defender of the right to bear arms. I know that I read it had been 6 months or so since she had taken him, and wondered when she did take him was it when he was still in a "good" place in life. I know that in the week or so before it was said that she felt that she was losing him. But I am holding out on the police report on just how AL did get access to the weapons. She seemed to be a responsible person.
    Would it matter if the weapons were locked, but he was able to break the lock or secure the key?

    He acquired possession of the weapons somehow. That much we know.

    Same tragedy.
    Marx: "Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen."

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastingsChi View Post
    I'm saying that an acquaintance's comments about someone are not as fully developed or reliable as a close friend, professional colleague who one works closely with or family member's comments. (I don't think this statement is a revolutionary, new discovery; I think almost everyone would agree it is a well accepted truth)

    As a former member of the media I understand the role and objectives of the media. My professional background as a former journalist provides me with a unique insight into news coverage and the strength of credibility of a published or broadcast report.

    With that in mind, I have witnessed a lot of speculation being published on the front page of the Tri-State newspapers and leading local and national coverage of this tragedy. Why do I refer to this as speculation? Simply put: almost none of the statements regarding Adam Lanza or his victim Nancy Lanza have been double sourced. For example, a story that got major coverage was that Adam Lanza targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School because Joshua Flashman stated “From what I’ve been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed.” “Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.” Unfortunately following the "news" from Flashman being published and broadcast and the talking head shrinks endlessly discussing this being the motive, Flashman's father, Richard Flashman, a pastor at Beacon Hill Evangelical Free Church released a statement that Joshua's comments were based on rumor and speculation and should not be taken as fact.

    This is just one of countless examples of what is being widely reported by countless media outlets as "news" whereas in many examples, in reality it is simply rubbish. [Do we even know if Adam even owned a copy of Call of Duty or similar games or even a gaming console that one could play such games? Do we know if the basement that Adam lived in was covered in posters of various military equipment? Do we know how Nancy stored her firearms or if she took her son's to the gun range?]

    It is times like this that we as the public need to step back and examine the larger picture of the tragedy and the media to allow the families of the victims to grieve without a camera being shoved in their face for ratings.
    I think a barber would probably be rather well qualified to comment about how someone behaved during haircuts. Beyond that, maybe not. But who would know better how someone interacted during a haircut than the person he interacted with?

    BBM: We know that he had a computer because the police said he smashed his hard drive. I understand that you can play Call of Duty and many other similar games on PC.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    AL didn't use his father's guns, and his father didn't live with AL. So what difference would it make?
    You are right, I mean in the end if AL was obsessed with guns and had a plan, chances are he would have figured out how to get them anyhow. I guess I am just in shock his Mom would feed his frenzy with enabling him to be a hermit. It's also obvious she was his financial source to buy what he wanted. I do understand Autism spectrum and how he was interested (obsessed) in military, but its to bad they couldn't have directed it away from guns and into other things. ....granted all of this is if reports are even true regarding his basement being covered in military posters and such.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    Well-said, but in the meantime, between the event and the officially sanctioned version, what - a censorship of silence?
    I'm not suggesting any sort of conspiracy. I do not believe that this is anything more than a monster reaching his breaking point and committing crimes against humanity to the most extreme degree.

    Yes are there questions about the lack of follow-up on WCBS TV's Lou Young's live report describing that he witnessed the man in camo pants and a black jacket being pulled from the woods in handcuffs and looking the parents in the eyes and saying "I didn't do this". (Young's live report aired during CBS national's live coverage of the shooting with Nora O'Donnell as the anchor.)

    I truly believe we need to step back and wait for that the facts will come out about everything that has been "reported" about Nancy Lanza and Adam Lanza. The 24-hour news cycle is not conducive to waiting for facts to be available before publishing or broadcasting information; this is such a horrific change in real journalism that troubles me beyond words.

    On the subject of the 24-hour news cycle and people like Dr Phil exploiting a tragedy under the guise of "helping"; IMO as much as the media is blaming "violent video games", "violent movies and TV shows" and similar as "causes" for such horrific school shootings, the one element that merits inclusion to such a discussion is the 24-hour news coverage of the tragedy and the shooter/reasons for the shooting should be included in the discussion as, in many cases, the school shooters lives being endlessly spotlighted by the media cause the public to remember the name of the shooter forever....

  15. #45
    New gun control discussion thread: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
    Last edited by KateB; 06-20-2015 at 09:46 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

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