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  1. #1
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    IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

    In Memory of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook



    "Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those precious little girls. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office pledges vigilance in our pursuit of those responsible and will extend every resource to concluding this case so that justice may prevail."
    -Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson

    Posted by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office - December 10, 2012
    http://www.bhcso.org/
    http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/eva...9bb2963f4.html
    http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/e...-missing-girls

    IA-Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 *Media/Maps/TmLne* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Scanner Thread - What's Poster in the Scanner Thread, Stays in the Scanner Thread

    Case Map by poster hollye

    Amandareckonwith's case archive

    Related: IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    and Hollye's Case Map

    RSO Rules: It seems there is a legal consideration concerning whether we are allowed to bring information to Websleuths from the actual sex offender registry.

    It is illegal to use the sex offender register information to harass anyone. We would never condone this at Websleuths. It is not illegal (in my opinion) if when a child goes missing or is harmed we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. In every case we have local people reading and posting here. Therefore we are within the guidelines using this info for local information. Again, we are not EVER going to even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting we do about a sex offender will always be within the law. If any of you have other questions about what you can and can't post please contact a mod and we will do our best to clear things up.


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    Last edited by KateB; 04-06-2015 at 01:46 AM.
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  2. #2
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    IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

    Please continue here...

  3. #3
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    Bringing this comment over from the last thread ... food for thought

    Quote Originally Posted by jenandemmie View Post

    Hello all. Longtime lurker, blue-moon poster here. Not an expert by any means but I will earn my BA in Criminal Justice this Spring. My studies have primarily focused on sex crimes, sexual predators, the psychology of sexual violence, forensic investigation/entomology and victimology. I hope to someday work with the FBI or local state police in finding missing persons and those responsible for the ones not found alive.

    I totally agree with the idea that staging the bikes and purse in this way would make it appear as if they had drowned, because that is exactly what everyone first thought. This bought the offender(s) a lot of time by keeping resources focused in what I think is a "red herring" area, an area in the opposite direction from where they were eventually found.

    I've also given the location and position of the bodies a lot of thought. First, I'm going to work off of the assumption that they were alive and walking upon entering the area where they were found. I am tempted to discard the idea that they were carried in because they obviously still had their shoes with them if the shoes assisted in identification. Flip flops would fall off too easily en route if she was being carried (don't know which one was supposed to be wearing flip flops), unless they were wrapped in something; however, we have no indication that the bodies were in any way covered, or wrapped. 5 months is long enough for complete skeletalization but not long enough to fully erode the most common coverings of plastic, fabric, or carpet. So, for this reason, I'm thinking they were walked into the area on foot.

    Now as to the position of the bodies, from the aerial photos we do know they weren't exactly right next to each other, but instead were more than 20-50ft apart at least (guesstimates based on google maps distance legend, please correct if someone knows exact distance). (Graphic content warning #1): While it is true that vertebrate scavengers can sometimes move bodies, that's usually much larger carnivorous animals like very large mountain lions, but even then most still wouldn't. But smaller animals like coyotes are more likely to tear away and snatch a single limb than move an entire body. So I am thinking they were initially separated on purpose, not separated by scavengers. So, what does this say to you in terms of the number of offenders? (Graphic content warning #2): To me it says there were two, one for each offender to have all for himself. If one person had both girls, he (or she, whatever) would have had to keep them close to him to remain in control, by threat of weapon or by threat of hurting the other girl. Further, what motive would he have for dealing with them separately, many yards apart? To take two girls, the psychopathy is likely such that a single predator would treat them as a pair to remain together. He would have no reason to dispose (sorry for the term) of one and then move to a second location to dispose of the other (even if very close by). My thought is that they were separated because (Graphic content warning #3) they were being assaulted separately so as to afford some semblance of privacy for each offender. If this is the case and there are two offenders, then I think we can eliminate a husband/wife or bf/gf scenario because that type of relationship is usually the type where one partner (usually male) is dominating the female and controls her to participate. In this instance the opposite gender pair acts the same as a single predator because the submissive is only acting as an assistant to the main offender. So the distance between the bodies, IMO, instead points to offenders of the same general status and gender, with one not overtly controlled by the other.

    As for motive, the distance between the bodies supports my theory that sexual assault was the primary motivation for the abduction. Had the girls simply been executed for drug debt or snitches' payback, why separate them to execute them? Turn them around and shoot them at the same time and get out of there, leaving as little evidence behind as possible.

    As for age of the offenders (if in fact there was a pair), then I'm venturing an educated guess that they are younger males (>16 but <25), perhaps a local pair of brothers or best friends, with hunting or fishing experience and a lack of supervision or strict schedules during the summer months. I think older males would have concealed the bikes rather than leave them and risk leaving prints or DNA. Younger males wouldn't have a place all their own to commit the assaults/murders nor to conceal the bodies or the bikes.

    Again, just my opinion.


  4. #4
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    My first thought when I saw the locations of the girls bodies (horrible btw and still is to bring it up) was that the perp may have done what he wanted at another location then took them to 7 Bridges alive and walked them into their deaths. I really would like to know the COD. It first appears as letting the two go and telling them to run then shooting them & they lay where shot. That has haunted me. Whew glad I got that out some. If it was one perp also. Could also be two.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Know? View Post
    My first thought when I saw the locations of the girls bodies (horrible btw and still is to bring it up) was that the perp may have done what he wanted at another location then took them to 7 Bridges alive and walked them into their deaths. I really would like to know the COD. It first appears as letting the two go and telling them to run then shooting them & they lay where shot. That has haunted me. Whew glad I got that out some. If it was one perp also. Could also be two.
    I've thought that many times. Which makes me lean more towards a serial killer. It might be my desire to avoid thinking of the girls being sexually assaulted.

  6. #6
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    tlcox, could this really be you??

    Just who is that woman???


    All posts, unless attributed, are "just my humble opinion," and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamnotagolem View Post
    I've thought that many times. Which makes me lean more towards a serial killer. It might be my desire to avoid thinking of the girls being sexually assaulted.
    I agree, if I avoid the sexual assault possibility, it comes back to possibly a drug related retaliation of some kind or...? Just a killer.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Know? View Post
    My first thought when I saw the locations of the girls bodies (horrible btw and still is to bring it up) was that the perp may have done what he wanted at another location then took them to 7 Bridges alive and walked them into their deaths. I really would like to know the COD. It first appears as letting the two go and telling them to run then shooting them & they lay where shot. That has haunted me. Whew glad I got that out some. If it was one perp also. Could also be two.
    There has been some information suggesting that the girls were murdered shortly after they were abducted. That would mean that they were taken directly from Meyers Lake to 7 Bridges Park.

  9. #9
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    I saw that Otto. I just don't think they can narrow the exact time down unless there was something dated or timestamped to that day. For their sake & the families I'm glad that statement was made. But in all honesty, I think it could be within a day to a week or so in TOD. jmo Not sure other than the bugs/plant growth and time of year facts. jmo

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Know? View Post
    I saw that Otto. I just don't think they can narrow the exact time down unless there was something dated or timestamped to that day. For their sake & the families I'm glad that statement was made. But in all honesty, I think it could be within a day to a week or so in TOD. jmo Not sure other than the bugs/plant growth and time of year facts. jmo
    I just don't see a kidnapper/murderer deciding to feed children and control them for 7 days ... unless he is a hermit that lives in the middle of nowhere.


  11. #11
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    Like so many others of us, I am getting so discouraged by the lack of anything new coming from LE or any other reliable and/or official sources. Yes, it's true they don't owe anyone anything (beyond the close family of the victims), but I wonder if they are as in-the-dark as we are. This is not to say LE is incompetent or are not spending any time on this case, but it's just so disheartening to find nothing new, day after day.

    Maybe the (seeming) lack of evidence is due to the time involved in finding the bodies (this may indeed be a big problem), but to hear nothing is both saddening and scary to me. I keep having this image of the perp(s) lying back and just snickering and smiling at LE being so seemingly far from solving this one.

    But who knoze, maybe tomorrow will be The Day. Let's keep hoping as we have been.
    Last edited by borndem; 12-29-2012 at 01:33 AM. Reason: typo


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Know? View Post
    My first thought when I saw the locations of the girls bodies (horrible btw and still is to bring it up) was that the perp may have done what he wanted at another location then took them to 7 Bridges alive and walked them into their deaths. I really would like to know the COD. It first appears as letting the two go and telling them to run then shooting them & they lay where shot. That has haunted me. Whew glad I got that out some. If it was one perp also. Could also be two.
    Or the final location 'is' the site of everything. Tied? Separate locations close to each other. Just my opinion. One of the reasons I think this is they (girls, perp, and vehicle) seem to have departed the town and all searches, almost immediately without leaving any trace?
    It's a foregone conclusion a vehicle is involved! That is required to get to the final location.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I just don't see a kidnapper/murderer deciding to feed children and control them for 7 days ... unless he is a hermit that lives in the middle of nowhere.
    I agree. If we knew motive we'd be better able to deduct the length they were kept alive.

    I'd think even if there was sexual assault, they were long dead before the bikes were found. I just don't see keeping them alive for repeated assaults, he'd be caught and after they were reported missing he'd have a harder time sneaking away to dispose of the bodies.

    I have always thought they were abducted moments after being seen in video, like less than a minute. I have also always thought they were dead before the 911 call.

    I have nothing to base it on, but I just have always thought that.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    There has been some information suggesting that the girls were murdered shortly after they were abducted. That would mean that they were taken directly from Meyers Lake to 7 Bridges Park.

    I agree, otto -- it's likely. I have wondered if the perp(s) was/were initially heading for 7 Lakes to drink beer, smoke a joint, do a drug deal, or just hang out, etc., and were on or near LaFayette or Brovan, saw the girls, had a conversation, etc., etc., and then headed to Meyer's Lake (or followed them there), got the girls, left the bikes (more for convenience), -- maybe Lizzie dropped her bag on purpose -- and took them to 7 Lakes for whatever was to happen to them. Luck for the perp, and a horrible lack of it for the little girls and their families. .. .. ..


    All posts, unless attributed, are "just my humble opinion," and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    There has been some information suggesting that the girls were murdered shortly after they were abducted. That would mean that they were taken directly from Meyers Lake to 7 Bridges Park.
    COD & TOD would establish that. I think they were taken to 7 Bridges asap to clear out of the area. If he went in daylight he has guts to assume such risk. But a vehicle is involved and one article says LE
    took track marks ...

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