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  1. #61
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    mikeysmommom is offline "A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you never knew was empty...."
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog.gone.cute View Post
    JMO and MOO ... but I still wonder IF there was any jury "tampering" ?

    I am still about the possibility of jury tampering, and still lean in that direction. I know ... it may seem far-fetched to still think this ... but ya never know ... I still can't shake the feeling that there was some jury tampering.

    On the other hand, many mistakes were made during the Trial :

    1. Judge Perry ... it was "his" court and he had CONTROL over it ! He should have NEVER allowed many of those "shenanigans" by the defense team in "his" courtroom, but he did

    Y'all listed many great points above and I totally agree with them !


    2. Jose Baez and the ENTIRE Defense Team's shenanigans !

    Again, y'all listed many great points above and I totally agree with them !


    3. The ANTHONY Family ... I truly believe Mr. Ashton was DUPED by George Anthony -- he "trusted" him and he should have NEVER trusted George ... I think that Mr. Ashton MAY have felt "sorry" for George because Jose was accusing George of molesting FCA and implicating him in covering up for FCA with the drowning story, which he knows did NOT happen ...

    I feel so sorry for Mr. Ashton ... he did a job as well as the rest of the Pros Team ... but he should have NEVER trusted an "Anthony" ...

    Also, the Prosecution Team should have treated ALL of the Anthony's as HOSTILE WITNESSES !

    And they were HOSTILE witnesses, IMO ... they did NOTHING at all to help the State ! The Anthony's were there for Casey -- NOT Caylee ... and this still makes me furious

    Okay ... rant over ... Night All !

    I would put nothing past the defense team,including jury tempering! It really sticks out to me about that man who was arrested for passing out jury nullification pamphlets , I believe that was during jury selection.Why of all times was that man there and did he get to some of them or were they all 12 really as dumb as we all believe them to be!
    I Love You MOM 6/16/32 - 5/30/09





    Justice for Travis 5/8/13

    Justice For Emma
    Stacey Barker - Guilty - Murder 1 - 5/24/11
    25 to Life - Sentenced 6/17/11

    Justice Denied for Caylee Marie Anthony
    July 5,2011

  2. #62
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    Unhappy

    I have followed this case silently from the beginning to the end, I just could never bring myself to post. I would type something and delete it, mostly on the account of some other poster having already posted my thoughts so much more eloquently than I could have.

    I think I felt physically ill for days after the verdict. But it wasn't hard to imagine it happening...just reading all the posts above shows why it did happen. I can't read the books or watch the movie because I know I will just get aggravated all over again.

    In my opinion, one of the biggest factors (I don't know if it can be actually considered a mistake) that led to its acquittal was the fact that so many people were willing to lie and cheat and basically ruin any credibility they might have had. For what? For her? I can't comprehend the "why" in all that. I don't think I ever will.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by watcher9 View Post
    When Caylee was first discovered missing, not doing a thorough 1-2 mile search around the A home including the woods. It was a month before Fay came through.

    It still mystifies me why Kronk was not believed on the first call and the area was not checked then. Nothing against Kronk himself but why not just stick to the truth? It only made him an easy target for the defense. Why did Kronk keep changing his story (relieving himself, seeing a white thing while driving by and hunting for the skull) on each call to enhance it? Why did Kronk feel the need to say he never touched the skull and then he poked at it with his meter stick and then saying he lifted the skull up?

    The tow company not calling LE when they first knew that the car smelled like decomposition.

    Pampering the jury by making movies, outings and food more important than the trial.

    Judge Perry coming down hard on spectators and prosecutors, but allowing FCA and her defense team free latitude to do whatever they wanted.

    Allowing the A's to stay in the courtroom during the trial as the victim's family when they were actually testifying for the defendant.

    When CA was perjuring herself, not confronting her as a hostile witness.

    When it was realized about the 84 times searches on the computer mistake, continuing to testify it as fact and letting JB call them on it in open court.

    More visual demonstrations needed to actually show how difficult duct tape is to separate when stuck to itself or another piece, what happens when someone tries to put duct tape on a wet surface, how duct tape deteriorates and loses evidence over time and conditions and better explaining and showing how the duct tape was able to remain on Caylee after decomposition and through the flood.
    I agree with all and especially the BBM. I thought the 84 searches was a bit over the top to begin with. Not surprised to learn it was a mistake.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossva View Post
    BBM Just to point out how easy it is, even now, to make mistakes, there was no hurricane. It was Tropical Storm Fay; not a hurricane.
    This was another problem the jurors had ... missing the point. The point is that due to the weather, the water was so deep that the searchers couldn't/wouldn't venture into the area where her body was later found, and therefore an exact cause of death couldn't be rendered.

    This jury missed alot of points that were made by the State. They lacked insight and common sense. Despite the fact that the defense didn't back up their opening statements with evidence, and their story changed from opening to closing, the jury chose to believe them. Maybe the reason the jury was "all over the place", was because baez was all over the place, and he is the only one they listened to. They also were so suspicious of George, despite the fact that he was just accused of abuse and disposing of his granddaughters body, but they excused FCA's behavior during the 31 days.

    Maybe some day we'll find out the truth about that jury.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    I agree with your husband.

    The drowning story or idea of it was out on the web and had been considered and the statements made to investigators and should have got the state planning a strong rebuttable case for the type of defence . Without effectively combatting that claim combined with Dr G not truely being able to back up her cod/mod with anything other then her opinion based on the way the tape was in Caylee's hair and the later testimony of kronk saying he lifted up the skull with her meter stick made it very hard to rely on the evidence as she veiwed it because reasonable doubt became a very real issue.
    I also think the state underestimated Jose due to his tactics during pretrial and that might have been the biggest mistake to the case. I think Aston had a hard time listening to what was really being said by Jose and looked at the case and Jose's statements kinda one diminsional. I think Jose saw that and exploited it.

    The final blow were the problems with the computer searches.

    JMO.
    I dont know how the state could have proved a murder in this case, as it went in court. I understand why people are upset with the verdict but the jury only knew what they heard in court,and without a baised opinion agaisnt Casey preexisting as opinion deeming her guilty conviction would have been impossible.They really didnt have much to say she really did murder Caylee as a fact.


    Bolded by me,,,, totally RESPECT RESPECT RESPECT your post (you are a fab poster!!!!!), but I see it differently,,,,, imo Casey shouldn't have gotten away with murder because she had the "luxury" of 30 days before the crime was discovered (washed away evidence and <<<modsnip/parents/family>>>). Crimes are never clear cut, unless on some TV program. I am 100% certain had I been a juror (without a biased opinion), my thought process would have leaned towards murder. I thought the pros did a FAB job showing us that every action after the fact proved ((imo)) Casey was happy to be rid of Caylee. Plus, little girls don't bag/throw themselves into the woods/swamps. As well as tons and tons and tons of other evidence (duct tape, etc.) that pointed towards murder. As far as an accident and not murder, when Dr. G. stated that mothers who discover their children in pools (drowning) always call for help, I know at that very moment as a juror I would have been thinking EXACTLY!!!! As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure I would have been insulted/sickened by everything the def team said/did. My only issue is that I wish MOTIVE had been centered on the new BF who didn't want kids hanging around (I believe to this very day that's why Caylee died). I'm pretty sure even unbiased I would have hung that jury...

    Again, just stating what my thought process would have been, but then again I am biased so who knows (but, my goodness, Caylee deserved better, they should have at least discussed this stuff for more than a few hours!!!!)

    sorry I'm rambling,,,, lol!!!!
    "The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity. The fears are paper tigers. You can do anything you decide to do. You can act to change and control your life; and the procedure, and the process is its own reward." Amelia Earhart

  6. #66
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    What everyone else has said, plus. . . . .

    When all of those friends were on the stand proclaiming what a wonderful mother KC was, the prosecution should have called the friends who had been told by CA that KC was a bad mother, that she was a sociopath, that she was a liar and a thief. Instead of allowing the jury to absorb all of this nonsense about KC being so wonderful, they should have put forth more efforts to show who she truly was. I don't recall the Target videos being shown, nor any mention of the vast thievery from her parents and AH. IMO, this should have been brought up. The defense may have tried to spin it another way, but all of that lying and stealing does not an angel make. MOO.




    It Was Ancient Aliens!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefmom View Post
    What everyone else has said, plus. . . . .

    When all of those friends were on the stand proclaiming what a wonderful mother KC was, the prosecution should have called the friends who had been told by CA that KC was a bad mother, that she was a sociopath, that she was a liar and a thief. Instead of allowing the jury to absorb all of this nonsense about KC being so wonderful, they should have put forth more efforts to show who she truly was. I don't recall the Target videos being shown, nor any mention of the vast thievery from her parents and AH. IMO, this should have been brought up. The defense may have tried to spin it another way, but all of that lying and stealing does not an angel make. MOO.
    Bingo, chefmom! This is when they should have reminded the jury of this:

    "It's with her back against a wall...that Casey Anthony first says these words: 'Caylee was kidnapped by the babysitter.' The babysitter that no one has ever seen," Burdick said. Cindy Anthony's first response, directed at Casey: "What did you do?"

    I will never understand how the prosecution didn't use this statement repeatedly!
    The heart of the pure can see, but my eyes have never seen the unicorn . . .

  8. #68
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    But ~ Ya know what? That rear view mirror is so handy! It's even adjustable . . .

    So I cannot, in my heart of hearts, be all that condemning (disappointed ~ yes) in the prosecution team that appeared in court. I do have no reserve, however, about identifying the fact that the state's computer people failed miserably. Really miserably. And there's not even a rear view mirror necessary to acknowledge that! They were a blatant failure and not one that it took months to realize.
    The heart of the pure can see, but my eyes have never seen the unicorn . . .

  9. #69
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    Wasn't it a mistake to not bring up the fact that FCA was stealing her friends money along with CA's money to buy clothes for herself and food for her and TL. I know it was a separate crime but isn't stealing AH's check book while Caylee is missing part of the same crime? FCA even said she was desperate cause Caylee was missing while referring to taking AH's check book. The state could've showed the thief she really was and show she had no concern for Caylee by showing the jury the things she was buying. Idk... maybe it would've helped

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefmom View Post
    What everyone else has said, plus. . . . .

    When all of those friends were on the stand proclaiming what a wonderful mother KC was, the prosecution should have called the friends who had been told by CA that KC was a bad mother, that she was a sociopath, that she was a liar and a thief. Instead of allowing the jury to absorb all of this nonsense about KC being so wonderful, they should have put forth more efforts to show who she truly was. I don't recall the Target videos being shown, nor any mention of the vast thievery from her parents and AH. IMO, this should have been brought up. The defense may have tried to spin it another way, but all of that lying and stealing does not an angel make. MOO.
    BBM-I think that would have been an excellent move on the State's part. I have to wonder how the "rule of hearsay" would have played into it tho.


  11. #71
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    I think the fact that the jurors hadn't followed the case, influenced their decision. Not because they were so dumb and ignorant, but because they were hearing both sides for the first time, and for whatever reason, they believed Baez. Or Baez, somehow, presented reasonable doubt.

    Last Thanksgiving, this is the conversation at my house: (I can't remember who we were talking about)

    Cousin: She's as guilty as Casey Anthony. That girl definitely killed her baby.
    Uncle: You really think so? I'm not sure....

    So there are people out there who aren't 100% behind her guilt. Even my mom, who followed the case somewhat before the trial on NG but didn't watch the trial, believes that Caylee accidentally drowned...but that Casey made it possible for it happen, on purpose.

    And I think since the jurors weren't familiar with the case, they had no idea of the reaction that would be generated if they acquitted her.

    So while I think theories about this...like the jurors wanted to go home and didn't want to stay for the sentencing phrase do make sense...I wonder if it's as basic as the jurors simply bought Baez's argument. I would like to think if you believed that someone killed their 2-year-old daughter, there is no way you could find them innocent, no matter how much you wanted to go home. It seems like natural human instinct to want someone to be punished for that type of horrible crime.

  12. #72
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    In the end I believe: there was possibly jury tampering and/or the jury believed the DT opening and closing statements instead of the facts. They thought they were there to do their own investigation and did not vote on the evidence.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeysmommom View Post
    LE should have taken that car as soon as they came to the Anthony house!It smelled of death but not one officer seemed to notice,that killed me from being! FAILURE!

    Kronk Officer should have looked in those woods with his first call !Caylee was missing and lived around that block FAILURE!

    FCA Should have been arrested after the 911 calls! FAILURE!

    I know 2 Officers were fired but I really believe local police were incompetent in the beginning.

    Letting anything come in from that con artist who sister just happen to be in a jail cell near FCA then ,that also has ties zany sunglass guy then she just happens to befriend George THAT one I am still not buying!FAILURE!

    Judge Perry seating a jury like he was playing a game of musical chairs!Case was too high profile for that kind of expedience FAILURE/Perry!


    Keeping a Juror because the defense said it was racial and it was what she said but he let his own life experience color his rational thinking IMO! FAILURE/Perry

    Found out from the movie Judge Perry Did not have to let BAEZ take lead but he allowed it! FAILURE /PERRY!

    Allowing FCA to face jury so they could see her impression of the incredible shrinking murder defend and wake her fake no tear crying FAILURE/J.PERRY!
    Treating Baez with kid gloves (Due to incompetent/his appeal record) and screaming at Prosecutors who were very competent.Making it look like he was on Baez side FAILURE PERRY!

    Perry treating the jury like he was timeshare salesman so worried about their nightly entertainment FAILURE/PERRY!

    Seemed to worry way too much about what the dessert lady was breaking them all! FAILURE/Perry!

    CYA mode to protect his appeal record and also fast tracked the jury to save $ a few more dollars would have been well spend!Penny wise pound foolish IMO FAILURE/Perry!


    He should have never allowed them to not look at any evidence ,I am not sure if he could not or just didn't FAILURE/Perry

    He should have made jury instruction juror friendly(dumb downed)these were not a group who read newspapers or watched news! FAILURE/Perry


    He should have allowed the cans to be opened! FAILURE/Perry

    He should have declared a miss trial FAILURE/Perry

    He could and should have not accepted that verdict from my understanding he did not have to.He looked at it twice so he knew it was wrong! Was it because of the costs or because of his long term friendship with CM? EPIC FAILURE/Perry.

    Jury should have went to the car/or car should have been towed to the court house,so jury could have a whiff! FAILURE Prosecution! or States Attorney said no!

    ASHTON is very intelligent he should have dumbed down a little esp. because those 12 did not read or watch news which imo means you keep up with the new technology they apparently needed it formatted like a movie! FAILURE/Ashton

    Not finding the computer searches AZLawyer and JWG found ...........EPIC FAILURE!

    Just off the top of my head I am sure there is more! I wish Stan would have been the judge he would have done a better job and the defense knew it!
    BBM

    When you compare the amount of $$$ Perry saved by budget cutting and rushing through jury selection to the years of investigations and all the time, money, blood, sweat, and tears put in by so many, it's a slap in the face to everyone involved (minus fca, how ironic?), and, imo, irresponsible. His duty was to seat a death qualified jury, who understood their instructions and what was expected of them, ie., what elements had to be proven, or not proven, what circumstancial evidence is, what reasonable doubt is in the eyes of the court, what an inference is and that they're allowed to make them, and that they are, in fact, supposed to put the pieces together! JF, juror #3, thought they were supposed to be spoon fed. She misstated the elements of the crime, thought the standard was no doubt whatsoever, no matter how ridiculous, they factored punishment in to their verdict, which isn't allowed in the guilt/innocence phase, and she said they disregarded some of the strongest circumstantial evidence, the 31 days, because she said they couldn't consider it, based on emotion. She said it wasn't up to them to put the pieces together... In post trial interviews, the jurors were basically just quoting the defense. And Perry knew that JB and CM were trying to confuse the jurors with their spin on the instructions, and therefore, he should've gone a step further to make it clear what the standards were during jury instructions. Granted, the jurors should've been thorough and actually have read the instructions themselves during deliberations, instead of letting a couple of misinformed know it alls convince them otherwise with all their legal jargon. Big words they probably picked up on some tv show that they didn't understand . IMO, it was partly their arrogance and/or agenda that led to the verdict, and although very few expected the jury to buy the defense's implausible and unproven theory, it was, nevertheless, Perry's duty to clear up any confusion before they headed back for deliberations. Deliberations that never happened, actually... Interpreting evidence is subjective, but jury instructions are not. And, it may not have made a difference with the ringleaders, but it could've, perhaps, led one of the other jurors to dispute them and start asking questions. Maybe???

    Imo, when a jury gets it this monumentally wrong, you have to take a good look at the system... Starting with the judge, and on up the ladder. Hopefully, we will see change, and our justice system will be better because of it. And maybe this was Caylee's legacy, or her justice. I don't know, but I have to believe, in light of that outrageous verdict, that there was a purpose or a reason... Something other than incompetence and stupidity...

    All above is jmo.
    Last edited by heidisams; 01-23-2013 at 11:16 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by skbsoccermom View Post
    this was another problem the jurors had ... Missing the point. The point is that due to the weather, the water was so deep that the searchers couldn't/wouldn't venture into the area where her body was later found, and therefore an exact cause of death couldn't be rendered.

    This jury missed alot of points that were made by the state. They lacked insight and common sense. Despite the fact that the defense didn't back up their opening statements with evidence, and their story changed from opening to closing, the jury chose to believe them. Maybe the reason the jury was "all over the place", was because baez was all over the place, and he is the only one they listened to. They also were so suspicious of george, despite the fact that he was just accused of abuse and disposing of his granddaughters body, but they excused fca's behavior during the 31 days.

    Maybe some day we'll find out the truth about that jury.
    BBM

    Lol... Poor JF got so lost in that dadgum maze! She must of missed those huge, neon signs pointing directly where she needed to go...

  15. #75
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    The prosecution definitely needed to change their strategy after the drowning story came out and show:

    That Caylee was murdered
    That she was murdered by someone in the house
    That she was murdered by Casey and not George
    That the defences theory did not make logical sense and could not have happened

    Then they probably needed to spell all that out to the jury in words of one syllable to they could easily understand it all.
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

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