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  1. #1
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    Questions I Have Not Found Answers To

    Would anyone mind answering some questions I have about the case? Iíve been reading and searching this site for a month or so now, and I thought it might be quicker to just ask, especially since Iím having trouble corroborating certain facts. I am behind on the case and not quite as seasoned as posters here appear to be, so please bear with me. Please don't hesitate to respond if you only know 1 or 2 answers.


    1. One of the Ramseys neighbors said they heard a scream the night of the murder, but then I read that they took it back and that they had never heard any scream. Does anyone know what the truth is? Or why the said this?

    2. Was anyone ever apprehended for the large amount of break-ins in the neighborhood before Dec.26th?

    3. John Ramsey showered right before Patsy found the ransom note. Was the bathroom and shower ever checked for any kind of evidence?

    4. Did the Ramseyís own or ever see the movies Dirty Harry, Ruthless People?

    5. Does anyone know if John had any knowledge about police procedures regarding crime scenes?

    6. Looking at the floor plans and pictures of the Ramsey house in Boulder, wouldn't it be possible for an intruder to have broken in and waited for the family to come home and go to bed without being detected? Would anyone on the 3rd or 4th floor really hear someone sneaking around in the basement?

    7. Were The Ramseys or their friends checked before they left the home in Boulder on Boxing Day?

    8. Is it really true that the Ramseys phone records were never looked at? How is that possible?

    9. I heard blood droplets that were unmatched to anyone were found in Jonbenetís underwear. Is this true? Wouldnít this prove there was an intruder?

    10. I may be wrong, but I thought DNA belonging to an unknown male was found near the very beginning. Some say this DNA does not matter. Why wouldnít it matter?

    11. It was reported Jonbenet had signs of prior vaginal trauma. Then I heard or read that this was untrue. Which is it? How do we know what to believe?

    12. In the mid 2000s, John and Patsy were on Larry King to which they responded to a female caller who I believe asked them 2 questions. After John responded to the first question (though he dodged the core of it) he lied and said he couldnít hear the perfectly audible second one. Patsy then chimed in defensively, to what ended up being another lie. Here we have both John & Patsy unquestionably lying. Their speech and demeanor doesn't change and also appears to be consistent with other television interviews. If examined, can anything be gained or learned from this? Remember when this aired, how easily they lied?

    13. I've never read any of the books based on this case. Is there one that is accurate and fair? If you had to recommend only one book, which would it be? And would you please state whether the book recommended shows pictures of Jonbenets crime scene or autopsy...I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THEM. Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt21 View Post
    Would anyone mind answering some questions I have about the case? Iíve been reading and searching this site for a month or so now, and I thought it might be quicker to just ask, especially since Iím having trouble corroborating certain facts. I am behind on the case and not quite as seasoned as posters here appear to be, so please bear with me. Please don't hesitate to respond if you only know 1 or 2 answers.


    1. One of the Ramseys neighbors said they heard a scream the night of the murder, but then I read that they took it back and that they had never heard any scream. Does anyone know what the truth is? Or why the said this?

    2. Was anyone ever apprehended for the large amount of break-ins in the neighborhood before Dec.26th?

    3. John Ramsey showered right before Patsy found the ransom note. Was the bathroom and shower ever checked for any kind of evidence?

    4. Did the Ramseyís own or ever see the movies Dirty Harry, Ruthless People?

    5. Does anyone know if John had any knowledge about police procedures regarding crime scenes?

    6. Looking at the floor plans and pictures of the Ramsey house in Boulder, wouldn't it be possible for an intruder to have broken in and waited for the family to come home and go to bed without being detected? Would anyone on the 3rd or 4th floor really hear someone sneaking around in the basement?

    7. Were The Ramseys or their friends checked before they left the home in Boulder on Boxing Day?

    8. Is it really true that the Ramseys phone records were never looked at? How is that possible?

    9. I heard blood droplets that were unmatched to anyone were found in Jonbenetís underwear. Is this true? Wouldnít this prove there was an intruder?

    10. I may be wrong, but I thought DNA belonging to an unknown male was found near the very beginning. Some say this DNA does not matter. Why wouldnít it matter?

    11. It was reported Jonbenet had signs of prior vaginal trauma. Then I heard or read that this was untrue. Which is it? How do we know what to believe?

    12. In the mid 2000s, John and Patsy were on Larry King to which they responded to a female caller who I believe asked them 2 questions. After John responded to the first question (though he dodged the core of it) he lied and said he couldnít hear the perfectly audible second one. Patsy then chimed in defensively, to what ended up being another lie. Here we have both John & Patsy unquestionably lying. Their speech and demeanor doesn't change and also appears to be consistent with other television interviews. If examined, can anything be gained or learned from this? Remember when this aired, how easily they lied?

    13. I've never read any of the books based on this case. Is there one that is accurate and fair? If you had to recommend only one book, which would it be? And would you please state whether the book recommended shows pictures of Jonbenets crime scene or autopsy...I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THEM. Thank you.
    Matt21,
    I found JonBenet Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas an excellent introduction to the case. Also I've heard good reviews about James Kolar's book Foreign Faction, he analyses the facts and introduces new forensic evidence. There are no images in Steve Thomas' book.

    Most of your questions have answers that do not really bear on the case. e.g.

    1. There may have been a scream. But was it JonBenet or the local cat?

    2. Who knows, who cares?

    3. Yes.

    4. Some say yes.

    5. Yes, he had interacted with the police before.

    6. Yes.

    7. No.

    8. Maybe nobody asked to see them, or special privileges were claimed. Anyway for those that know, these calls are still available, since the USofA intelligence agencies archive all that stuff!

    9. The blood droplets were JonBenet's, but they contained unidentified touch-dna, i.e. not DNA!

    10. If its not identified it cannot matter, since its origin and role are indeterminate.

    11. Read the autopsy report. JonBenet had been internally assaulted. The phrase vaginal trauma is politically correct speech, which avoids any reference to incest. The short answer is yes, JonBenet displayed signs of chronic molestation.


    .

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt21 View Post
    Would anyone mind answering some questions I have about the case? I’ve been reading and searching this site for a month or so now, and I thought it might be quicker to just ask, especially since I’m having trouble corroborating certain facts. I am behind on the case and not quite as seasoned as posters here appear to be, so please bear with me. Please don't hesitate to respond if you only know 1 or 2 answers.


    1. One of the Ramseys neighbors said they heard a scream the night of the murder, but then I read that they took it back and that they had never heard any scream. Does anyone know what the truth is? Or why the said this?

    2. Was anyone ever apprehended for the large amount of break-ins in the neighborhood before Dec.26th?

    3. John Ramsey showered right before Patsy found the ransom note. Was the bathroom and shower ever checked for any kind of evidence?

    4. Did the Ramsey’s own or ever see the movies Dirty Harry, Ruthless People?

    5. Does anyone know if John had any knowledge about police procedures regarding crime scenes?

    6. Looking at the floor plans and pictures of the Ramsey house in Boulder, wouldn't it be possible for an intruder to have broken in and waited for the family to come home and go to bed without being detected? Would anyone on the 3rd or 4th floor really hear someone sneaking around in the basement?

    7. Were The Ramseys or their friends checked before they left the home in Boulder on Boxing Day?

    8. Is it really true that the Ramseys phone records were never looked at? How is that possible?

    9. I heard blood droplets that were unmatched to anyone were found in Jonbenet’s underwear. Is this true? Wouldn’t this prove there was an intruder?

    10. I may be wrong, but I thought DNA belonging to an unknown male was found near the very beginning. Some say this DNA does not matter. Why wouldn’t it matter?

    11. It was reported Jonbenet had signs of prior vaginal trauma. Then I heard or read that this was untrue. Which is it? How do we know what to believe?

    12. In the mid 2000s, John and Patsy were on Larry King to which they responded to a female caller who I believe asked them 2 questions. After John responded to the first question (though he dodged the core of it) he lied and said he couldn’t hear the perfectly audible second one. Patsy then chimed in defensively, to what ended up being another lie. Here we have both John & Patsy unquestionably lying. Their speech and demeanor doesn't change and also appears to be consistent with other television interviews. If examined, can anything be gained or learned from this? Remember when this aired, how easily they lied?

    13. I've never read any of the books based on this case. Is there one that is accurate and fair? If you had to recommend only one book, which would it be? And would you please state whether the book recommended shows pictures of Jonbenets crime scene or autopsy...I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THEM. Thank you.
    I'll take a try at a couple of these. 1. from my understanding, the neighbor reported hearing a scream, (with believable detail), then recanted, and then went back to her original statement. Although this made her unreliable, her husband backed up her story and he's the neighbor who reported the metal on concrete sound. 6., it's possible, but there were no signs of a break-in. 11. Medical examiners found signs of prior abuse, but the R's denied this...which was weird, because no one accused them specifically. I would think they would have wanted to know who assaulted their daughter, and therefore point to the murderer. 13. I would recommend starting with 'JonBenet: The Police Files'. It's full of interviews, word for word, so the reader can decide for himself, what he thinks about the Rs. Moo

  4. #4
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    For #2, I don't believe the neighborhood burglars were ever caught. IDI's like to think it's "suspicious" that the break-ins stopped after JonBenet's murder, but if I was robbing people's homes at night, and then a child is murdered in her home in the same neighborhood, there is no way that I would continue.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    For #2, I don't believe the neighborhood burglars were ever caught. IDI's like to think it's "suspicious" that the break-ins stopped after JonBenet's murder, but if I was robbing people's homes at night, and then a child is murdered in her home in the same neighborhood, there is no way that I would continue.
    Well, the neighborhood would be crawling with cops and the homeowners would beef up their securities, so why would a burglar take a chance of getting caught and being forced to explain how he was just a burglar but not a murderer. Can you imagine the fear of the guy doing this? My father in law got caught up in a similar situation. He wasn't committing crimes, but had sold a car to a guy who didn't pay up. My FIL still had the title, so when the car's license plates were found at a mass murder site, the FBI came looking for him. They pulled him out of his job as a high school coach and interrogated him. He said they were hardcore and meant business, and this big, burly 6 ft 3 man, was scared out of his wits. They finally got this straightened out, (after several interviews), so the FBI went after the car buyer. They found him in California,(this all happened in Texas), but it ends up he didn't commit the murders either. He had ditched the plates in case my FIL reported the car stolen. So, in a case where you know ahead of time that you could get caught up in serious business, it would be smart to run, don't walk.

  6. #6
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    Christmas night is NOT the night to rob a home, IMO. Nearly all families are home that night. The Rs reported no robbery when they arrived home. There was NO sign of forced entry.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
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    7) Not only were the R's and their friends not checked, but later PR's sister was allowed to wear a police jacket and remove items (many items), from the house, without them being checked.

    One odd thing John wanted was a specific bag/set of golf clubs. Since it was winter, why did John need his golf clubs so swiftly? IMHO, a golf bag could hold a lot, or even a single crucial piece of evidence.
    ___________________

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    If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in English, thank a soldier!
    If I forget to mention it. Everything I post is my opinion, right or wrong, good or bad.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post

    One odd thing John wanted was a specific bag/set of golf clubs. Since it was winter, why did John need his golf clubs so swiftly? IMHO, a golf bag could hold a lot, or even a single crucial piece of evidence.
    Do we know the exact make and model of golf clubs that were removed? And did the RST have a copy of the autopsy report prior to thier removal?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt21 View Post
    Would anyone mind answering some questions I have about the case? Iíve been reading and searching this site for a month or so now, and I thought it might be quicker to just ask, especially since Iím having trouble corroborating certain facts. I am behind on the case and not quite as seasoned as posters here appear to be, so please bear with me. Please don't hesitate to respond if you only know 1 or 2 answers.


    1. One of the Ramseys neighbors said they heard a scream the night of the murder, but then I read that they took it back and that they had never heard any scream. Does anyone know what the truth is? Or why the said this?

    2. Was anyone ever apprehended for the large amount of break-ins in the neighborhood before Dec.26th?

    3. John Ramsey showered right before Patsy found the ransom note. Was the bathroom and shower ever checked for any kind of evidence?

    4. Did the Ramseyís own or ever see the movies Dirty Harry, Ruthless People?

    5. Does anyone know if John had any knowledge about police procedures regarding crime scenes?

    6. Looking at the floor plans and pictures of the Ramsey house in Boulder, wouldn't it be possible for an intruder to have broken in and waited for the family to come home and go to bed without being detected? Would anyone on the 3rd or 4th floor really hear someone sneaking around in the basement?

    7. Were The Ramseys or their friends checked before they left the home in Boulder on Boxing Day?

    8. Is it really true that the Ramseys phone records were never looked at? How is that possible?

    9. I heard blood droplets that were unmatched to anyone were found in Jonbenetís underwear. Is this true? Wouldnít this prove there was an intruder?

    10. I may be wrong, but I thought DNA belonging to an unknown male was found near the very beginning. Some say this DNA does not matter. Why wouldnít it matter?

    11. It was reported Jonbenet had signs of prior vaginal trauma. Then I heard or read that this was untrue. Which is it? How do we know what to believe?

    12. In the mid 2000s, John and Patsy were on Larry King to which they responded to a female caller who I believe asked them 2 questions. After John responded to the first question (though he dodged the core of it) he lied and said he couldnít hear the perfectly audible second one. Patsy then chimed in defensively, to what ended up being another lie. Here we have both John & Patsy unquestionably lying. Their speech and demeanor doesn't change and also appears to be consistent with other television interviews. If examined, can anything be gained or learned from this? Remember when this aired, how easily they lied?

    13. I've never read any of the books based on this case. Is there one that is accurate and fair? If you had to recommend only one book, which would it be? And would you please state whether the book recommended shows pictures of Jonbenets crime scene or autopsy...I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THEM. Thank you.
    10. It wouldn't matter if someone had predetermined that a Ramsey killed JBR and the DNA did not support this conclusion.

    13. I just finished reading Presumed Guilty by Stephen Singular and I was profoundly dissapointed by this book. I had read interesting snippets of it in various places so I thought to get the entire book to see if it held any insights. Alas, it did not.

  10. #10
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    #12 - That female caller was our very own Tricia Griffith!

    And yes, they conveniently didn't hear the second part of the call and actually made up the answer to the first bit.


  11. #11
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    UKGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Matt21,
    I found JonBenet Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas an excellent introduction to the case. Also I've heard good reviews about James Kolar's book Foreign Faction, he analyses the facts and introduces new forensic evidence. There are no images in Steve Thomas' book.
    Thanks for the recommendation and info.

    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Most of your questions have answers that do not really bear on the case. e.g.
    Sorry...Iím sure everyone here probably absorbed all this over a decade ago, but 75-80% is new to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    7. No.
    7. I find this one absolutely crazy as hell. So they...the father brings his dead daughter upstairs and then him and his wife drive away. I mean, I thought they were suspected immediately, so why let them just walk away? Not to mention the other 5-7 possible suspects who were in the home with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    10. If its not identified it cannot matter, since its origin and role are indeterminate.
    10. I understand what youíre saying, but what Iíve heard and read is the DNA, whether or not it ever becomes identified, is not as important in this case. Iím 100% positive Iíve come across different people stating this fact. Though I donít understand why this DNA would not be important.



    Dodie20
    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    1. from my understanding, the neighbor reported hearing a scream, (with believable detail), then recanted, and then went back to her original statement. Although this made her unreliable, her husband backed up her story and he's the neighbor who reported the metal on concrete sound.
    I always had a hard time believing this woman heard any scream, that is after her initial statements. Didnít she change the story a few times? I felt that maybe she wanted to be included in the case, but then if she is was honest, there could be a more accurate time of death. Thank you for recommending a book.



    eileenhawkeye
    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    For #2, I don't believe the neighborhood burglars were ever caught. IDI's like to think it's "suspicious" that the break-ins stopped after JonBenet's murder, but if I was robbing people's homes at night, and then a child is murdered in her home in the same neighborhood, there is no way that I would continue.
    yes that is a good point, but I was just curious if there was anyone caught, at least just to be eliminated as a suspect.



    SunnieRN
    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    7) Not only were the R's and their friends not checked, but later PR's sister was allowed to wear a police jacket and remove items (many items), from the house, without them being checked.
    I donít understand what the motivations were back at the time. Within everything Iíve watched, read or heard about the case, the Rs were suspects almost immediately. Even if they werenít, would this type of treatment be allowed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    One odd thing John wanted was a specific bag/set of golf clubs. Since it was winter, why did John need his golf clubs so swiftly? IMHO, a golf bag could hold a lot, or even a single crucial piece of evidence.
    Yes, that is very odd. What happened to these golf clubs? Iíd be extremely suspicious regarding this aspect, and more so if they disappeared. A golf bag could hold a lot of evidence, and a golf club could crack a head open I bet.



    Anyhoo
    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    13. I just finished reading Presumed Guilty by Stephen Singular and I was profoundly dissapointed by this book. I had read interesting snippets of it in various places so I thought to get the entire book to see if it held any insights. Alas, it did not.
    Okay, thank you for the warning regarding the book...I appreciate it.



    wonderllama
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderllama View Post
    #12 - That female caller was our very own Tricia Griffith!

    And yes, they conveniently didn't hear the second part of the call and actually made up the answer to the first bit.
    Oh really! She posts here? Tell her I said ďgood work.Ē
    If I remember correctly, my suspicions towards the Ramseys began with their first interview, but a couple of turning points for me were the interview with detective Linda Arndt, and then that 1 minute of Larry King with the phone call.

    I know itís just wishful thinking, but since the Rs are on camera undoubtedly lying, is there some behaviour analysis that could be compared with their earlier interviews to detect what they lied about back then?

  12. #12
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    Matt, Tricia Griffith owns WS. She also has a great radio show called "Tricia's True Crime" that's on Sunday nights at 8 pm ET.

    With regards to the DNA and some being more important than other. There are two types of DNA. If you shake hands with me you will leave your DNA on my hand (and vice versa). If I then touch person X, that you have never even met, on the shoulder, I will leave not only my DNA on their shirt, dress, whatever, I will also leave your "touch DNA". So in effect, your DNA is now on a person that you do not have anything to do with. Touch DNA is what was found under JBR's fingernails, in the crotch of the size 12 Bloomies, and on the waistband of the underwear and the longjohns. There was actually touch DNA from 5 males and 1 female. It's not viewed as "important" evidence, by anyone other than IDI, because it could have come from anywhere. Now don't ask me how the experts know the difference between DNA and Touch DNA because I haven't got a clue, but they can tell.

  13. #13
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    Matt21,

    7. I find this one absolutely crazy as hell. So they...the father brings his dead daughter upstairs and then him and his wife drive away. I mean, I thought they were suspected immediately, so why let them just walk away? Not to mention the other 5-7 possible suspects who were in the home with them.
    Sure, so does everyone else. The whole case is like this, special priviliges for the R's, like they had a hotline to the DA.


    10. I understand what youíre saying, but what Iíve heard and read is the DNA, whether or not it ever becomes identified, is not as important in this case. Iím 100% positive Iíve come across different people stating this fact. Though I donít understand why this DNA would not be important.
    Its not DNA, its touch-dna, i.e. its not semen, or saliva, or blood, or a hair sample, all of which can prove IDI. The touch-dna could have arrived anyhow, more or less anywhere between the White's house and the Ramsey house. It only becomes important if you can identify it, then you can eliminate or not, the owner.

    This touch-dna is only important to the R's since they spuriously wish to claim that it represents absolute evidence of an intruder, in a sense, its their fig leaf!


    .

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Matt21,


    Sure, so does everyone else. The whole case is like this, special priviliges for the R's, like they had a hotline to the DA.



    Its not DNA, its touch-dna, i.e. its not semen, or saliva, or blood, or a hair sample, all of which can prove IDI. The touch-dna could have arrived anyhow, more or less anywhere between the White's house and the Ramsey house. It only becomes important if you can identify it, then you can eliminate or not, the owner.

    This touch-dna is only important to the R's since they spuriously wish to claim that it represents absolute evidence of an intruder, in a sense, its their fig leaf!


    .
    So you are saying touch-dna is not DNA? Are you sure about that? It sounds like what someone would say when they want to dismiss or disregard evidence that does not fit with their theory of the case. My understanding is that it had been determined that this so-called touch DNA from multiple locations on either JBR's body and/or clothing matched. If that were the case it would be much more significant than what you are implying here.

  15. #15
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    Touch DNA, for one example, could be that which might have been found on Patsy's hands or garments then transferred to JonBenet. It works a lot like secondary fiber transfer may act.

    It is not evidence of an Intruder unless and until it can be identified as belonging to someone who was at the crime scene. Coming to a decision on only one piece of evidence is risky business.

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