IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

"Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those precious little girls. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office pledges vigilance in our pursuit of those responsible and will extend every resource to concluding this case so that justice may prevail."
-Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson

Posted by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office - December 10, 2012
http://www.bhcso.org/
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

IA-Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 *Media/Maps/TmLne* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

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Case Map by poster hollye

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Related: IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

and Hollye's Case Map

RSO Rules: It seems there is a legal consideration concerning whether we are allowed to bring information to Websleuths from the actual sex offender registry.

It is illegal to use the sex offender register information to harass anyone. We would never condone this at Websleuths. It is not illegal (in my opinion) if when a child goes missing or is harmed we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. In every case we have local people reading and posting here. Therefore we are within the guidelines using this info for local information. Again, we are not EVER going to even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting we do about a sex offender will always be within the law. If any of you have other questions about what you can and can't post please contact a mod and we will do our best to clear things up.


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Thread #27

Continue the discussion here:

Please review the rules about discussion or speculation about family members:

Originally Posted by imamaze
Please remember the following when discussing the case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.

Things to know before you post:
Leave the snark -- and the rumors --at the door.
Treat other posters with respect.
Do not sleuth individuals who have not been mentioned in MSM either as persons of interest or as suspects by LE.
Choose the links you post wisely; don't link to sites which feature bizarre speculation, etc.
If you have questions or concerns about a post, alert on that post and contact a mod. Do not quote and/or reply to the post. If you do, and the post is subsequently deleted, your post is subject to deletion, as well.
If you have other questions in general, scroll to the bottom of the page and find "View forum leaders." There you will find a list of moderators available if you need to PM one.
Remember: you can disagree with a post and address it, but you do NOT attack the poster.

No one has been named by LE or MSM as a POI or suspect in this case.
The parents, whatever you may personally think about them, have not been named.
That means that they, and their families, their neighbors, and their friends and "associates," are not to be sleuthed or badmouthed.

Click to expand...

fyi: Any rules that are changed in other cases are considered on a case by case basis by administration. The above are the rules to discuss THIS case.

nothing new, just rewatched this video of reaction from community members just after the girls' bodies were found.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...mix_532cd290-4017-11e2-b7a8-001a4bcf887a.html

Our girls. I echo the lady being intereviewed's sentiments.

This is a link posted by ThreeCrazyKids yesterday (Thread #27). For some reason I was deeply touched by the simple image of the front page of an IA newspaper.

http://ankeny.patch.com/articles/da...e-missing-cousins-of-evansdale#photo-12504522

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_0aa203df-f03c-5322-87b6-194cb70a60a1.html

feels like we could use something to bring us back together and remind ourselves that despite differing theories and the occasional difference of opinion, we are all here for the girls.

Bringing forth some of the images and stories from the celebrations of life/services and vigils for the girls seems an appropriate way to do that.

from the linked article:

Lyric and Elizabeth also were close. Cook, their grandmother, said they loved painting their nails.

"They were constantly changing colors," she said. "We've got so many pictures. And Lyric loved to pose."

Tammy Brousseau described Elizabeth as having "a contagious personality." When her daughter outgrew her bicycle, Tammy Brousseau gave it to Elizabeth and taught her how to ride at age 7.

"I ran her up and down Brovan (Boulevard) till she got the hang of it," she said. "She's such a pumpkin."

snip

"Elizabeth loved Winnie the Pooh," Tammy Brousseau said, picking up a stuffed bear.

snip

"She always did that," Cook said of Lyric, who lived with her. "Like in the morning when she got up, she'd run into my arms, 'Good morning, Grandma, I love you.'

"And at bedtime, her and I would hold hands, we'd talk about the day, and we'd pray," she added.

So depressing that we are on thread #28, and we are going around in circles just like we were on thread 1.

This brings me to a philosophical question -

Do you believe LE, as public servants, owe the public more accountability?

While (almost) wholeheartedly supporting LE, some of these crimes like Isabel Celis and Lizzie and Lyric, seem to enter a black hole of silence and stay there forever.

Even if LE chooses NOT to give extra information, do you feel that they owe the public more acknowledgement in the form of regular pressers, even if they say nothing much? Especially to the people in the areas these girls have vanished?

I feel like sometimes, such as in Isa's case, the whole thing just seems to disappear. The investigation becomes invisible, so the public has no way of judging how their money is being spent, or what sort of risks there may be regarding a localised and violent SO.

Even a monthly or bi-monthly presser with Abben or someone saying, Guys, all we can tell you is the investigation is alive and ongoing, thanks for your time, would be better than SILENCE when dead or stolen children are concerned.

Locals in Iowa or Arizona...how do you feel about this? Do you feel like you have a right to know that the girls haven't sunk to the bottom of someone's desk drawer?

I don't know if I feel like they "owe" us anything, but I do think an informed public is a safer public. Of all the cases I've followed Jessica Ridgeway's was probably the most informative. Police were not messing around. They were determined to nail the perp.

The cases I've followed where police were tight lipped are unsolved. I don't see this case getting solved, I know that's not a popular opinion, but I think that a year from now I'll be coming on every few months bumping up the thread.

I think the only reason this thread has stayed so active for so long, is because the bodies weren't found immediately. I think we would have zero media attention if the girls bodies had been found a week later.

All MOO

SapphireSteel said:

So depressing that we are on thread #28, and we are going around in circles just like we were on thread 1.

This brings me to a philosophical question -

Do you believe LE, as public servants, owe the public more accountability?

While (almost) wholeheartedly supporting LE, some of these crimes like Isabel Celis and Lizzie and Lyric, seem to enter a black hole of silence and stay there forever.

Even if LE chooses NOT to give extra information, do you feel that they owe the public more acknowledgement in the form of regular pressers, even if they say nothing much? Especially to the people in the areas these girls have vanished?

I feel like sometimes, such as in Isa's case, the whole thing just seems to disappear. The investigation becomes invisible, so the public has no way of judging how their money is being spent, or what sort of risks there may be regarding a localised and violent SO.

Even a monthly or bi-monthly presser with Abben or someone saying, Guys, all we can tell you is the investigation is alive and ongoing, thanks for your time, would be better than SILENCE when dead or stolen children are concerned.

Locals in Iowa or Arizona...how do you feel about this? Do you feel like you have a right to know that the girls haven't sunk to the bottom of someone's desk drawer?

Click to expand...

It is my understanding that it is the job of LE to protect the people of the community and enforce laws:

Sheriff Code of Ethics (Iowa)
As a Law Enforcement Officer, my fundamental duty is to serve mankind; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation, and the peaceful against violence or disorder; and to respect the Constitutional Rights of all persons to liberty, equality, and justice.

In my opinion, until the person who killed these innocent girls is arrested and brought to justice, the community has a right to know whether or not a killer is on the loose.

They don't owe me any details of the investigation.

HOWEVER, the # 1 goal of LE shouldn't be to worry about building the case but rather the safety of the public.

In this investigation I feel silence by LE benefits 2 parties...the perp and LE.

We've seen that silence for 7 months clearly hasn't gotten them an arrest - maybe it's time change up their investigation tactics so a killer can be brought to justice.

I am not local, but I hear the question and experience the frustration with the endless circular debates and lack of news that many of us do.

I don't feel they owe the public regular news updates or pressers. I wish we had more info to chew on. Don't get me wrong. Unfortunately, I think if they were giving us regular updates they would only amount to the following sound bites anyway.

we are still actively investigating/pursuing leads. We have no specific suspect(s) or person(s) of interest at this time. We will continue to follow every lead until we apprehend the person or persons responsible. We will not be releasing the cause of death or any information gained in the autopsies of the girls as it may hamper our ongoing investigation.

etc

etc

etc

I mean, really, how many times can we hear that until we are sick to death of it? But with no new breaks in the case and no arrest, that is all they can honestly tell us right now.

tlcya said:

I am not local, but I hear the question and experience the frustration with the endless circular debates and lack of news that many of us do.

I don't feel they owe the public regular news updates or pressers. I wish we had more info to chew on. Don't get me wrong. Unfortunately, I think if they were giving us regular updates they would only amount to the following sound bites anyway.

we are still actively investigating/pursuing leads. We have no specific suspect(s) or person(s) of interest at this time. We will continue to follow every lead until we apprehend the person or persons responsible. We will not be releasing the cause of death or any information gained in the autopsies of the girls as it may hamper our ongoing investigation.

etc

etc

etc

I mean, really, how many times can we hear that until we are sick to death of it? But with no new breaks in the case and no arrest, that is all they can honestly tell us right now.

Click to expand...

The problem I have with their ad nauseum statement is this:

We have no specific suspect(s) or person(s) of interest at this time.

Then CHANGE your investigation tactics to create credible leads instead of the "thousands" of leads that haven't led to an arrest.

threecrazykids said:

It is my understanding that it is the job of LE to protect the people of the community and enforce laws:

Sheriff Code of Ethics (Iowa)
As a Law Enforcement Officer, my fundamental duty is to serve mankind; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation, and the peaceful against violence or disorder; and to respect the Constitutional Rights of all persons to liberty, equality, and justice.

In my opinion, until the person who killed these innocent girls is arrested and brought to justice, the community has a right to know whether or not a killer is on the loose.

They don't owe me any details of the investigation.

HOWEVER, the # 1 goal of LE shouldn't be to worry about building the case but rather the safety of the public.

In this investigation I feel silence by LE benefits 2 parties...the perp and LE.

We've seen that silence for 7 months clearly hasn't gotten them an arrest - maybe it's time change up their investigation tactics so a killer can be brought to justice.

Click to expand...

I don't think I explained my point properly. I don't think they owe us details at all, but I do think they owe the girls and the public semi-regular reassurance that the case hasn't just dropped into the TOO HARD basket.

LE could be sitting around flicking rubber bands into trash cans waiting for a good phone tip, for all we know :dunno: A regular, generic face to face with the press would at least confirm that is not the case.

I was at pains to say that it's irrelevant whether they release information or not, but I feel it is relevant that they acknowledge and address the public concern during the investigation phase...especially when they still require public help.

Law Enforcement is a community responsibility and if I lived in the Evansdale/Waterloo community, I would be very concerned indeed.

The police rely on the public, as the public rely on the police.

The police wish the public to give them any relevant information, but how does one know it is relevant unless LE have given some guidance?

I could ring them up and say "I saw a stranger in a blue car" when a red car is being looked for, wasting both my time and theirs.

I could ring them up and say "there is a guy hanging outside a school!" when it's another child's father and LE know the perp's a woman anyway.

I could panic and not let my kids leave the house at all, ruining their childhoods, because there is a monster roaming the streets (or maybe there isn't).

At the end of the day, LE are public servants. Every other organisation which is reliant on public assisistance and funding that I can think of acknowledges its clients at some level, even if it is just a formulaic "we have no changes to report". We expect accountability from our Churches, our schools, our hospitals, our governments, so why not LE?

I sometimes wonder if things would be different if these were celebrity children who were murdered. Sometimes LE in celebrity cases become almost as famous as the victims themselves.

They owe us no information, I agree 100%, but I feel they do owe a concerned public, and the victims, some ongoing acknowledgement and either warnings, generic updates, or reassurance.

Not just dead silence.

SapphireSteel said:

So depressing that we are on thread #28, and we are going around in circles just like we were on thread 1.

This brings me to a philosophical question -

Do you believe LE, as public servants, owe the public more accountability?

While (almost) wholeheartedly supporting LE, some of these crimes like Isabel Celis and Lizzie and Lyric, seem to enter a black hole of silence and stay there forever.

Even if LE chooses NOT to give extra information, do you feel that they owe the public more acknowledgement in the form of regular pressers, even if they say nothing much? Especially to the people in the areas these girls have vanished?

I feel like sometimes, such as in Isa's case, the whole thing just seems to disappear. The investigation becomes invisible, so the public has no way of judging how their money is being spent, or what sort of risks there may be regarding a localised and violent SO.

Even a monthly or bi-monthly presser with Abben or someone saying, Guys, all we can tell you is the investigation is alive and ongoing, thanks for your time, would be better than SILENCE when dead or stolen children are concerned.

Locals in Iowa or Arizona...how do you feel about this? Do you feel like you have a right to know that the girls haven't sunk to the bottom of someone's desk drawer?

Click to expand...

I am local and I am furious that nothing has been said. There is a killer walking among us and it seems with LE ,it's just another day.
Everyone is suspect and that is a horrible way to live.

Unique444 said:

I am local and I am furious that nothing has been said. There is a killer walking among us and it seems with LE ,it's just another day.

Everyone is suspect and that is a horrible way to live.

Click to expand...

Thanks, you've done in two sentences what I was trying to say using 30

This is exactly what I mean. The local community is suffering, and LE have the power to at least alleviate that somewhat by reassuring the community they are still running a viable and active investigation.

I think LE in this particular case are doing sterling work, but it is becoming a bit too repetitive...murdered children and nothing from LE, not even a "we're onto it".

Protecting a community encompasses more than just catching bad guys, surely.

SapphireSteel said:

So depressing that we are on thread #28, and we are going around in circles just like we were on thread 1.

This brings me to a philosophical question -

Do you believe LE, as public servants, owe the public more accountability?

While (almost) wholeheartedly supporting LE, some of these crimes like Isabel Celis and Lizzie and Lyric, seem to enter a black hole of silence and stay there forever.

Even if LE chooses NOT to give extra information, do you feel that they owe the public more acknowledgement in the form of regular pressers, even if they say nothing much? Especially to the people in the areas these girls have vanished?

I feel like sometimes, such as in Isa's case, the whole thing just seems to disappear. The investigation becomes invisible, so the public has no way of judging how their money is being spent, or what sort of risks there may be regarding a localised and violent SO.

Even a monthly or bi-monthly presser with Abben or someone saying, Guys, all we can tell you is the investigation is alive and ongoing, thanks for your time, would be better than SILENCE when dead or stolen children are concerned.

Locals in Iowa or Arizona...how do you feel about this? Do you feel like you have a right to know that the girls haven't sunk to the bottom of someone's desk drawer?

Click to expand...

I am on my cell so ssorry for spelling. I think there is no
reason the public can't get some type of statement
from the police. Even during wartime we get constant updates, we aren't asking for. a
confidential information, we deserve at least something .

Unique444 said:

I am local and I am furious that nothing has been said. There is a killer walking among us and it seems with LE ,it's just another day.
Everyone is suspect and that is a horrible way to live.

Click to expand...

You're local and know there is a killer in your community. In all honesty, would it make you feel any safer if LE came out and said, "be careful, there's a killer in our midst"?

I'm not being snarky, I'm interested in what a local would like to hear from LE in order to feel better. If, as you say, everyone is suspect, what exactly could LE say to alleviate concern in your community?

Thanks.

Marilynilpa said:

You're local and know there is a killer in your community. In all honesty, would it make you feel any safer if LE came out and said, "be careful, there's a killer in our midst"?

I'm not being snarky, I'm interested in what a local would like to hear from LE in order to feel better. If, as you say, everyone is suspect, what exactly could LE say to alleviate concern in your community?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

All you need do is look at the frustration that boils up on this thread from time to time.

Being "kept in the dark" is traumatic in and of itself, let alone the damage it does when people's imaginations fill in the blanks.

It is why solitary confinement is the most feared punishment in prison.

Prisoners vastly prefer the company of rapists, murderers, and abusers, over dead silence.

Marilynilpa said:

You're local and know there is a killer in your community. In all honesty, would it make you feel any safer if LE came out and said, "be careful, there's a killer in our midst"?

I'm not being snarky, I'm interested in what a local would like to hear from LE in order to feel better. If, as you say, everyone is suspect, what exactly could LE say to alleviate concern in your community?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I'm a local and yes I want to be alerted if a killer is still on the loose. Same for a tornado coming or a rabid dog loose..anything or anyone capable of causing death to my family i want updates.

SapphireSteel said:

Thanks, you've done in two sentences what I was trying to say using 30

This is exactly what I mean. The local community is suffering, and LE have the power to at least alleviate that somewhat by reassuring the community they are still running a viable and active investigation.

I think LE in this particular case are doing sterling work, but it is becoming a bit too repetitive...murdered children and nothing from LE, not even a "we're onto it".

Protecting a community encompasses more than just catching bad guys, surely.

Click to expand...

BBM

Does anyone in the community really think LE is no longer running a viable and active investigation? Is it necessary for LE to hold pressers to say, hey guys, we'll still doing our job but we have nothing to tell you?

I just don't know what people are expecting LE to say at this point.

JMO

Chelsea, Squeeze -
Maybe on Feb 13, (the 7-month anniversary) organize a quiet rally at the Police Station in Evansdale with picket signs. Let LE know that the community is upset, wants a small progress report, and is demanding an update. Invite the local news stations to cover it. I don't know if it would help -- but I know I'd do it if I were there. Just to show the girls that people are still fighting for justice for them.

chelsea6 said:

I'm a local and yes I want to be alerted if a killer is still on the loose. Same for a tornado coming or a rabid dog loose..anything or anyone capable of causing death to my family i want updates.

Click to expand...

But didn't you just post that you knew there was a killer walking among you, and that everyone was suspect? How would having LE confirm that make you feel any better?

A tornado or a rabid dog are things you can identify and avoid, or take precautions against. How can you avoid or take precautions against an unnamed killer?

If there was a presser tomorrow and LE said "there's a killer walking among us", I just don't see how that would serve to make the community any safer. Especially if the community already knows that. JMO