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  1. #1
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    Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

    Sarai Sierra, a mother of two who enjoys photography, was looking forward to her trip and arrived in Istanbul on Jan. 7. She was supposed to return to New York on Jan. 21.
    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...188580261.html




    A couple more links:

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/...ing-in-turkey/



    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...235_story.html


    Her passport and medical cards were found in her hotel room. She was traveling alone but skyped with her husband daily. The last he heard she said she was going to the Galeta bridge (a well-known tourist destination in Instanbul).


    Note to mods: I couldn't post this thread without picking a prefix, but none of them fit this case. Is there one you would suggest?

    Thread #1
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    Last edited by KateB; 05-20-2015 at 12:26 AM. Reason: repair url tag.
    Any man's death diminishes me,
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    Therefore, send not to know, for whom the bell tolls;
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    Here is Sarai's instagram account. She has taken some wonderful photos. This account seems to be all photos of NYC. I wonder if she has posted recent photos taken in Istanbul somewhere.

    http://statigr.am/memyself_sarai


    Sarai appears to have a very large online community of friends on Instagram. If you click on the first photo you will see many comments from friends and others.

    She belongs to a group called @_made_in_NYers. Many of them have posted photos of her for sharing and getting her information out there, particularly in Istanbul.

    Here is her brother's IG account and a photo of Sarai that he has asked people to share.


    http://statigr.am/p/376809509984850632_2337227

    Any man's death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind,
    Therefore, send not to know, for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee.
    ~John Dunne


    #TeamCivilization

  3. #3
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    Please continue here in Thread #4.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpmighty View Post
    Chewy, this is quite a common scam. The Turkish dude that was recounted there is a 'fetcher'. Guys like that are usually low lifes with barely passable English, they'll take you to places that they are associated with. Girls would be sent over to the table, their job is to get the victim to buy them drinks. Guy disappears at some point and when you want to leave the place, you're presented with an extravagant bill. The fetcher receives a percentage of whatever the victim pays. So do the girls.

    Such places are called pavyon. They often look like 3rd class night clubs. Victims are almost exclusively male.

    If you refuse to pay, the fine establishment you were at will try to intimidate victim by shouting, pushing around etc. If the victim can get the LE involved, they can avoid getting ripped out. Even with LE involvement, some of those fine establishments have standing arrangements with lowly police patrolman. Policeman attending might simply tell you that you must pay.

    The same scam is actually quite prevalent around the world. Japan and EE countries come to my mind.
    Wild, I'd never heard of these before. I would totally fall for them, but then I would refuse to pay. I wouldn't believe they would actually kill me.

    I know they target men but I read online that her father had to send her $500 twice? I wonder if she got mixed up in a scam like this?
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    My statement was nothing specific to Turkey, it was just in general. Sometimes, for whatever reason, people don't want to get themselves involved, especially if they perceive something to be a domestic situation. If true Taylan had sex w her, he might have thought she just did not want to talk to her husband.

    There was a case recently in China where girl was run over and no one at the scene bothered to call police. It happens sometimes all over the world....where people do not want to get themselves involved.
    If so, an educated fellow like Taylan/Tarkan would at best be conflicted about going to the LE. He'd know sooner or later LE would find about their correspondence and the best thing to do is going to the LE. But then again, if they had sex, he might have thought that somehow this would implicate him. But then again, he is an educated guy, and his decision making would revolve around "How can I avoid trouble best?"

    I say, having a similar background in education to him:

    If I knew nothing about her disappearence/murder, I'd just go to the LE.
    Even if I knew about the disappearence/murder or even had a role in it myself, I'd have gone to the LE.

    Not going to the LE arouses more suspicion and will cause more trouble. If he was smart, whether he had responsibility or not, he'd be crazy not to go to LE.

    If he is dumb, perhaps he would delay going to the LE. But then again, having Internet correspondence that can be tracked easily, he would damn well know that LE would come for him.
    "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
    Othello, Act III, Scene III

  6. #6
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    belimom is offline Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter ~MLK Jr
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    I wanted to bring this over:


    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    Even if wife had affair it “doesn’t matter to me”: Steven Sierra

    Even as the husband of murdered Staten Island mom Sarai Sierra fields questions about his wife’s overseas infidelity, he says, “I’d marry her all over again.”

    (snipped)

    We also visited with Sarai’s parents and sister in their Staten Island home. They are understandably devastated by their daughter’s murder, focusing on her upcoming wake on Valentine’s Day and Funeral on Friday. Dennis Jimenez generously invited anyone who wants to attend to come to pay their respects, “Stop by on Thursday. It’s open.”

    Read more: http://pix11.com/2013/02/11/if-you-a...#ixzz2KdpLWYP2
    Summary of the video:

    - husband: I'm not reading anything at all, too overwhelming
    - husband: has been in contact with some suspects (won't confirm if he has spoken with Tarkan)
    - husband: insists wife faithful and his posts about being faithful were to inspire others
    - husband: together for 16 yrs and upset that he can't grow old with Sarai
    - per local Turkish people: her murder has all the marks of a 'hit' or 'paid-for murder'
    Fly high and free, Jhessye ~

    My posts are meant to help think through possibilities and are strictly an additional opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error. Please understand that much of what is happening is merely brainstorming during unfortunate events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    Wild, I'd never heard of these before. I would totally fall for them, but then I would refuse to pay. I wouldn't believe they would actually kill me.

    I know they target men but I read online that her father had to send her $500 twice? I wonder if she got mixed up in a scam like this?
    I don't think so. There are no Pavyons that I know of that cater to women. And I consider myself fairly knowledgable. Fetchers actively seek out foreign men. Don't forget the main bait there is actually the girls and the prospect of the foreign guy hooking up with one of them. This prospect makes the foreign men buy more drinks for them, increasing the bill and the profit of the scam. Besides, even if she fell victim to such a scam, she'd be inclined to tell that to her family.
    "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
    Othello, Act III, Scene III

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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    I wanted to bring this over:
    If it's a hit or paid murder, it's extremely sloppy. If I was a hitman with experience, or failing that, having a certain amount of researched knowledge, I wouldn't take my target down through inflicting skull fructure with a stone. Too dirty, too noisy and close quarters struggle always means leaving more evidence.

    But, then again, if I was a hitman with experience and knowledge, I would only make my move as such in this case to mislead. However there are infinitely more sensible ways to mislead and cover your trail. Arranging an accident, making it look like suicide etc.

    And it was written before: Even if a hitman wanted to make it appear the murder random or like a rape gone murder, would the hitman really take chances to allow her to struggle back? A knowledgable hitman would have taken the target down most likely with a single powerful blow, not allowing the target to react, then inflict secondary blows on the target to make it appear unprofessional. If there is bio material under her nails, this surely means she fought back and allowing the target to fight back leaves evidence.

    Let's suppose our Hitman screwed up with the first powerful blow, SS fought back and with only secondary blows Hitman managed to kill her. But then again, surely the Hitman would remember to pick evidence after himself, clean the nails.

    Hit or paid job doesn't make sense. Our perp is either an acquintance she had from before over the Internet or she developed after arriving to Turkey, or a second degree acquintance of her contacts here. If it's not an acquintance at all, then perp must be random. Perp probably spotted her there, or spotted her before and trailed her there with intent. We don't often have serial murderers in Turkey. In fact, murders without a solid motive are almost unheard of. So this makes me think the motive was rape or robbery if the perp was random.

    Lastly, let's not forget we for now don't know for sure the scene where the body was discovered is the actual murder scene. LE didn't release anything on that, if I'm not mistaken.
    Last edited by alpmighty; 02-11-2013 at 10:14 PM.
    "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
    Othello, Act III, Scene III

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    I don't buy SS family being involved angle either.

    Arranging a hit, especially an overseas one would most certainly be expensive. Logistics would increase the cost, and foreign LE jurisdiction and the necessity for the hitman to travel overseas and back increases the risk, leaving behind solid evidence of entry and departure at the borders. Forged passports are mostly a thing of the past as the biometrics/chip features make even using them in intelligence operations. Even CIA cannot have an expertly forged passport and identity and have the agent/asset/officer use it consistantly. Biometrics data, as well as the identity is fetched at points of arrival and departure and centrally stored in the post 9/11 world.

    And no, it is impossible somebody from the States, not having well developed contacts with Turkish criminal elements to arrange a local hitman. Even if they could, as there are Turkish hitman available naturally, such hitmen do not operate on a avoid getting caught basis. They assume and rightly predict that they'll get caught and serve a lengthy time. Unsolved murders are quite a rarity in Turkey. So, if you do order a hit, you'll have to financially support them and any family they leave behing while they are serving their time for a long time. All those increase the costs considerably.

    So, it's sheer fantasy to think that SS family might have arranged a hit. They're not well off financially, they do not appear to have the right connections and there's no strong motive.
    Last edited by alpmighty; 02-11-2013 at 10:23 PM.
    "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
    Othello, Act III, Scene III

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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    - per local Turkish people: her murder has all the marks of a 'hit' or 'paid-for murder'.

    Not one but all the marks? What mark, other than she's dead?

    Totally agree with Alpmighty. It makes little to no sense.

    In fact, it reminds me of this movie called "I Love You to Death"

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099819/

    The wife (Tracey Ullman) plans to kill his cheating Husband (Kevin Kline). River Phoneix's character, who has a crush on the wife, goes to a bar to hire these two incompetent, stoned professionals (William Hurt and Keanu Reeves) and pays them. An hour later, Hurt and Reeves arrive at the house in a cab, equipped with only a baseball bat.

    A hilarious movie.


    Last edited by Yashim; 02-11-2013 at 10:22 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    bbm

    This happened to my DH and a colleague in Germany. They were the only men in the restaurant/pub - the only one open that late at night when they were looking for something to eat after a late arrival. Two girls came and joined them, uninvited. They did not realize the girls worked there and the girls asked if they wanted a drink. They said 'sure'. They left the table, never returned. When DH and his colleague went to leave, they were handed a bill of something like $500. They did resolve it but not completely: I think they reduced it greatly but not down to the regular price.

    I had no idea this was a standard M.O. in other areas of the world. This happened to my DH about 20 yrs ago and I had forgotten about it.
    Yes I saw a case recently on news where this happened similarly to a US military person on leave in Greece I think, where he was jipped several thousand dollars. He refused to pay and there was extremely long drawn out disputes with the credit card company bc I guess he signed the receipt just to get out of there.

    These scams are always to men, using women as bait...

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    I just looked at the Turkish media web link, claiming a guy was discovered to be tailing SS.

    It is written in the web site that "In the food court, a male sitting in a table right across the table SS picked up is to have discovered to be tailing SS on the street".

    Now, if you pay attention at the food court shots, the guy right across is wearing a black jacket that appears light. There are also clearly seen stripes around the collar of the jacket. As we cannot see him from a front angle, only other distinguishable feature is him being bald. There might be some hair on the back of his head as those areas look more white as compared to the top of his head.

    On the other hand, the street footage depicts a bald guy, wearing a jacket that appears more bulky and looking like minding his business on a cell phone.

    Ruse of playing around with a cell phone is perfect for tailing somebody. Even if the mark notices you, distinguishes you from the crowd, you just have the perfect body language as not to arouse suspicion. Your head is slightly declined and aligned with the cell phone, but you can still maintain visual contact with your eyes. If your target turns around and notices you, all you have to do is swiftly break the visual contact by looking at the phone immediately.

    It could be said that you wouldn't sit at a table right across the mark you're tailing, directly facing her. But then again, SS appears to have picked up a table later, the guy across her already had picked up his table.

    However, the hair pattern of the guy we observe in the food court makes me think that he is at least middle aged, assuming the white area back of his head is remnants of last hair on the fellow's head.

    But the street guy is definitely at most around 30s. He might have had receeding hair, but he appears to have shaved it off completely. There are darker spots to the back of his head, showing hair growth. However, at this point, it might be argued that food court camera and the street camera are of different makes and there might be a disreperancy at picking up colors. Even so, his jacket is bulkier and I could see no stripes on the collar.

    Unless the colors are screwed up in the food court camera, or the guy in the street bulked up his jacket and covered the collar stripes with a scarf he tied around his neck, the street guy and the food court guy are not the one and the same.

    But then again, if we, for some reason, have to assume she was tailed, any professional tailing attempt involves multiple tails/assets alternating and shifting as not to spook the target up.
    Last edited by alpmighty; 02-11-2013 at 10:57 PM.
    "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
    Othello, Act III, Scene III

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    Wild, I'd never heard of these before. I would totally fall for them, but then I would refuse to pay. I wouldn't believe they would actually kill me.

    I know they target men but I read online that her father had to send her $500 twice? I wonder if she got mixed up in a scam like this?
    Something along these lines was my original thought when she first went missing, I wrote a long post on it in thread 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkHard View Post
    Something along these lines was my original thought when she first went missing, I wrote a long post on it in thread 1
    But still, such a scam wouldn't involve murder in the first place. Murder or even assault on the scam victim guarantees unwanted, undesiarble amounts of LE attention.

    Murder and such a rip off scam do not go well together. Murder is placed at the top of the list of crimes that warrants LE attention and such scams are placed at the bottom on the same list. You wouldn't want to mix two ends of the same list, it would kill your prospects to profit off the scam, or it would severely compromise your identity as a murderer, depending on which crime you'd prioritize.

    For the followers of the fine science of deduction, Occam's Razor most often times proves out to be your best tool.
    "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
    Othello, Act III, Scene III

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    Yes I saw a case recently on news where this happened similarly to a US military person on leave in Greece I think, where he was jipped several thousand dollars. He refused to pay and there was extremely long drawn out disputes with the credit card company bc I guess he signed the receipt just to get out of there.

    These scams are always to men, using women as bait...
    Completely irrelevant to the subject, but if your credit card is not a chip&pin one, which would require you to enter your secret PIN at the point of transaction and may legally establish that you yourself willingly made that transaction, you can always initiate a chargeback through your CC issuer. You just have to make sure to sign the receipt with a fake signature. You'll get your money back.
    "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
    Othello, Act III, Scene III

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