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  1. #1

    Wink Examples of Patsy's handwriting (and Burke's)

    Can anyone point me to current, functioning internet sites that have PHOTOs of Patsy's and Burke's handwriting? I keep reading about the opinion of 'experts' but I want to use my own grey matter on this one.

    also, for obvious reasons the Basement/Cellar of the "Old Ramsey Place" ( ) , and other parts of the house are of utmost importance here. SURELY there are photos of the various rooms involved. I would have thought there would also be photos of the various rooms at different times of day (given how famous this case is). In particular, I want to see the photo of the wine cellar at 6am around winter solstice, compared with a photo of it at, oh, I don't know... say.... 1pm?

    so where are the comprehensive photo collections? Not re-enactments, but the real photos?

    Thanks for your help in pointing me to the correct web pages (which OBVIOUSLY exist, right? RIGHT?)

  2. #2
    oh, also, obviously there are current photos of Burke around the place. It would be interesting to know how he turned out physically. Come on, don't say that wouldn't interest you! We are all shallow in our own ways. Does he have many friends? Did it turn out that he suffers from a diagnosable mental illness? Or not? Does he still see a shrink?

    Was just wondering if someone could point me to the web site with current ramsey photos. Also, obviously there is a site with the 911 call audio, so that you can download and listen. I would hope the "enhanced" audio is available for public download too, at this late stage.

    Look, i am sorry if i am being obnoxious. It just MADDENS ME (more!) that such obvious information is unavailable. If it IS available, all sarcasm and obnoxiousness aside, PLEASE post a link.

    I am NOT being cruel, i just don't understand why this info is so hard to find. After all, given that the TWO MOST LIKELY SUSPECTS (according to THIS forum anyway !) are still alive, and one of those suspects, young Mr B, is just getting to the age where he could reasonably give his own TV interview, and things could get (more) interesting!

  3. #3
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    Smile

    Hi there! I think you're loking for the site www.acandyrose.com for pics and just about everything else. Also www.forumsforjustice.org has the 911 call that can be downloaded. (I hope it's ok to post those sites here. If not then mods please delete and accept my apologies.)

  4. #4
    holy moley!!!! Thanks Trixie!

    Looks like all my obnoxiousness WAS unwarranted. Will delve into the sites right now.

    Thanks again !

  5. #5
    OK i have a question regarding Patsy's "a".

    I had read that Patsy changed her style of writing the printed (not cursive) "a" post-death of JBR.

    I went to the site http://blabbieville.tripod.com/index.htm where it contains samples of P's writing, both before and after the... err... 'unpleasantness'.

    Sure enough on the FIRST set of examples provided, there is a SINGLE example (bottom right - "Beauty Pagaent Entry Form") where Patsy uses the strange 'typewriter' style of 'a', which is of course the most common style in printed form (and on the computer screen) but i would think is very rare in normal handwriting.

    So i thought, 'cor blimey! gotcha Patsy!"

    BUT, if you go to the second set of Patsy's examples, NONE of the printing, which all appears to be PRE-murder, have this style of 'a'. All of them have the 'normal' style of printed handwritten 'a'. (i refer to non-cursive writing examples of course)

    What's the argument then? Is it that Patsy used sometimes to write 'a' like a typewriter, but then never ever used that style again post-murder? If so, any idea how often she would write 'a' like this?

    AND, it is simply very odd to me that she would vary her written 'a' at all (even BEFORE the murder).... why on earth would someone do this? What does it mean? split personality ? (i mean that only HALF as a joke...) I don't mean varying the 'a' AFTER the murder. I mean, why did she vary it before?

    ALSO on those sensational tabloid "matches" for words... i agree they look similar, but how on earth could you say they were "matches"? Each of them is different... when i look at the "connected" letters of a word on the left side, a different set of letters is connected on the sample (right) side. I tend to think that if i wrote with my left hand, my writing might come up with some "matches" too!

    Finally, why are the actual words she is writing in the ransom note sample she has written for analysis almost the same but not quite the same as the real ransom note? Did she write this soon after the murder, and was she on tranqs when she wrote these samples?

    thanks guys ;-)

    i do apologize if all this has been dealth with elsewhere. I know it is annoying to have to repeat yourself to newbies. But please humor me ;-)

  6. #6
    and also, come on, let's see some samples of Burke's writing. There must be tons from his elementary school. Where are they?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruJosh
    and also, come on, let's see some samples of Burke's writing. There must be tons from his elementary school. Where are they?

    GuruJosh,

    Thank you for this comment and question. There's almost nothing available on Burke's handwriting. Burke began typewriting even personal correspondence following the murder of JonBenet.

    There are some examples of Burke's handwriting as captions on some childhood photos in Burke's personal photo album. They're in ACR's website. In the Wolf v Ramsey defamation lawsuit, attorney Darnay Hoffman's QDE's didn't have very many exemplars of Patsy's handwriting when they were trying to prove that Patsy wrote the ransom note. They used the captions on Burke's photos, having been told that the captions were written by Patsy. They weren't. The captions were written by Burke.

    Hoffman's QDE's, thinking Patsy wrote the captions, and after professionally analyzing the exemplars, concluded that the person who wrote the captions in the photo album also likely wrote the ransom note. Without realizing it, Hoffman's handwriting experts verified that Burke Ramsey wrote the ransom note.

    When Patsy Ramsey was questioned about who wrote the captions in Burke's photo album, she "couldn't remember".

    BlueCrab

  8. #8
    Hi GuruJosh. I am one of those wierd people whose writing style changes alot. Always has. My reason? I am a sloppy leftie, and throughout my writing life, I have perpetually tried to improve the way I write. As a student, whenever I noticed someone's handwriting that I liked, say for a distinctive style, I would try to emulate it. As a result, depending on the day, I write large, small, slanted left, slanted right, sloppy, neat, etc. I think that ultimately, analyzing my handwriting would still be easy, as I am sure there are things I always do the same, such as the fatness of my loops, or the height of the dots on my 'i' or something.

    But to completely abandon printing in a certain style (the a) forever - that seems to show a consciousness, or purposeful avoidance of ever using that style again. That is odd.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruJosh
    I went to the site http://blabbieville.tripod.com/index.htm where it contains samples of P's writing, both before and after the... err... 'unpleasantness'.
    I am totally butting in and this is totally OT but I just have to say that it really bothers me that you refer to JonBenet's death as the 'unpleasantness."
    I realize that you were proably implying that that is how Patsy things of Jon Benet's murder. I just worry sometimes that people get so wrapped up in solving this case or "sleuthing" for entertainment value of it that they forget that at the heart of all this is a little girl who was brutally murdered.

  10. #10
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    Burke?

    After looking at ACR's site I have to agree that the handwriting in the ransom note is quite similar to Burke's. Does anyone think that a 9 year old would be 'sophisticated' (for lack of a better word) enough to compose such a note? Is it possible that someone else dictated it to him?

    I apologize if this has been discussed before. I am a lurker here and have not read every single post.

    B-


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by princessmer81
    I am totally butting in and this is totally OT but I just have to say that it really bothers me that you refer to JonBenet's death as the 'unpleasantness."
    I see what you mean. The reason i said unpleasantness is that i doubt this was a murder. However if i said "accident", i would be leaving the possibility of a murder closed... and i can't do this because i simply dont know what happened.

    In actual fact, YES, i do view this case as entertainment. It is tragic, and when i saw the autopsy pics of jonbenet i realized that this was a human being, innocent, who had died horribly in her own home. That is very very sad. However much, much worse things have happened to others (you know, like what "Jehovah" did with the Tsunami! yep, just trying to get a rise out of you guys )

    So the truth is, i said unpleasantness to avoid saying Murder... but i do get some degree of entertainment from this case, as do you all ....otherwise, why do you think about it? Out of your desire to help humanity? Then send some rice over to Sri Lanka for heavens sake.

    Sounds harsh, but i am actually a nice guy so read this with compassion

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bensmom98
    After looking at ACR's site I have to agree that the handwriting in the ransom note is quite similar to Burke's. Does anyone think that a 9 year old would be 'sophisticated' (for lack of a better word) enough to compose such a note? Is it possible that someone else dictated it to him?

    I apologize if this has been discussed before. I am a lurker here and have not read every single post.

    B-
    just with regards to this question... i am just musing out loud here... but when i was 9, i could easily have written that note, spelled EVERYTHING correctly, and at that age i knew that certain words like attache had an accent at the end because they were french. I mean i read Carl Sagan's "Dragons of Eden - Speculations on the Evolution of Human Intellegince" when i was 10 (just as an example). I bet many other kids are capable of this kind of thing.

    in my opinion, the ONLY thing about the note that doesnt gel with a 9 year old is the PHRASING (not the words, or broad content).

    eg. writing to someone that "you are not the only fat cat" around, although a very simple sentence, requires a bit of understanding of that person's position in life, relative to others. How many 9 year olds would describe daddy as a "fat cat"? They might think daddy's rich... but a fat cat? That's how adults, with hindsight, are able to phrase it, with other derogatory connotations included in the phrase.

    Thus if Burke wrote it, i believe that in part it was dictated by an older person.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    There are some examples of Burke's handwriting as captions on some childhood photos in Burke's personal photo album.
    BC, is the writing at http://blabbieville.tripod.com/samplebaby2.jpg an example of Burke's writing?

    Reading the site, i thought it was P's, but i also thought, "what an odd sample for Patsy to submit to police!!!"

    Would make more sense if it were Burke's.

    In any case, this printing is amazingly similar to the note.

    BUT again, the a's are normal. What's up with the aaaaaa's people? Would be a smoking gun if a's were typewriter a's.

    Maybe it was the left hand writing that made the perp of the RN use that style. Maybe it was just easier

    Try writing a regular "a" with your left hand!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruJosh
    BC, is the writing at http://blabbieville.tripod.com/samplebaby2.jpg an example of Burke's writing?

    Reading the site, i thought it was P's, but i also thought, "what an odd sample for Patsy to submit to police!!!"

    Would make more sense if it were Burke's.

    In any case, this printing is amazingly similar to the note.

    BUT again, the a's are normal. What's up with the aaaaaa's people? Would be a smoking gun if a's were typewriter a's.

    Maybe it was the left hand writing that made the perp of the RN use that style. Maybe it was just easier

    Try writing a regular "a" with your left hand!


    GuruJosh,

    That url doesn't work.

    If an adult righthander wrote the note I think he used his left hand. But if a fourth-grader righthander wrote it I think he used his right hand.

    One of my BDI theories does include Burke as the writer of the RN and an older teen or college student assisting with the text. I used as evidence of the second person helping with the note the fact that there's a backward comma in $18,000 on the first page. It would indicate to me that a person was sitting directly across and facing the writer, and occasionally making minor corrections. But, since the writing would be upside down to the second person, when he added the comma he made it backwards.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    GuruJosh,

    That url doesn't work.
    Try again BC

    worked when i pressed it just then.

    In any case it is the Patsy sample that says "this is my mom and the doctor when i was first born"

    It's also on the Candy Rose site.

    BC do you think that THAT example is actually Burke's handwriting?
    that is what i thought, anyway. Why would P submit a photo of herself as a baby?

    Anyway if u are righthanded like me, take a pen and WITHOUT thinking about it, with your eyes shut, write "118,000"

    You will unconsciously write the entire mirror image of the number, including the comma (but ONLY if you allow yourself not to think about what you're doing). You will also write from right to left, like you're writing Arabic or Hebrew.

    That is a well known feature of left/right coordination in the brain.

    So i think it is more likely that the backward comma is an unconscious mirror image.

    However, as you can tell, i am very sympathetic to your BDI theory.

    So view me as a friend

    IMO, if the Ramsey's are covering up, there could be only 1 person they are covering for.

    Darling lil Burke.

    If my wife bashed my baby to death, even in a single-hit, out of the blue, temporary insanity type situation, she would be in a police cell as we speak. And i would have custody of the other child. And she would never see that child again, if i could help it. My children would be infinitely more important to me than my spouse.

    I just dont buy the theory that since both Ramseys are supposedly guilty of somthing (ie John for long term sex abuse and Patsy for the rage killing), they somehow agreed to cover up for each other.

    Sounds like a crok. Is that a swearword?


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