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View Poll Results: Why did Elisa die?

Voters
342. You may not vote on this poll
  • Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    162 47.37%
  • Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    46 13.45%
  • Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    86 25.15%
  • Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    7 2.05%
  • Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    5 1.46%
  • Unsure/Do not know

    36 10.53%

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Elisa Lam - What Happened?

    This is a poll thread to discuss what you think may have happened to Elisa and why.

    Please pick the option that most closely matches what you feel may have happened to this lovely girl.
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  2. #2
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    Hi gitana1

    I strongly feel this is homicide, but can't decide whether a crime of opportunity or pre-planned. Leaning toward opportunity (given the hotel and surroundings), so i voted that way, but can't discount planning (i.e. length of time that might be involved .. minutes/days)

    fwiw

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    I think it was a homicide, but I also think she may have been high on ecstasy or something like that. It is also possible that somebody slipped her the drug earlier, with plans to assault her.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    Hi gitana1

    I strongly feel this is homicide, but can't decide whether a crime of opportunity or pre-planned. Leaning toward opportunity (given the hotel and surroundings), so i voted that way, but can't discount planning (i.e. length of time that might be involved .. minutes/days)

    fwiw
    Yes, and of course a crime of opportunity is usually premeditated. I;m just trying to differentiate between a scenario in which she is lured to CA or otherwise days of planning went into it once her name was known (i.e. the Elisa Lam TB theories) and a crime that occurred because she encountered a bad guy in the hotel or at a bar or on the street that day.

    Crime of opportunity could include 1st or second degree murder, negligent homicide, etc. . It could mean she encountered a scum bag who decided to rape her and then kill her so she wouldn't tell, or someone who accidentally killed her during an assault.
    Last edited by gitana1; 03-02-2013 at 05:06 PM.
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    NY
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    3,703

    Question

    I don't know.
    I will say that I don't think it was suicide or accidental.
    IMHO, it was crime of opportunity, or premeditated, or social network/conspiracy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    IMHO - It appears that she know the person in the Video and is in a "happy" and relaxed state. I am having issues with understanding why she is having so many problems with the elevator as its not her first day there and I am sure she used it many times before.

    I would like to see video of her before the elevator video, so we can see her demeanor in those videos. Additionally there are other times she used the elevator, did she have problems then and how did she act.

    In other words is the video her normal demeanor or is she acting different than other times and days.

    Also if it was a security guard, surely they would have come into the elevator to check out the issue she was having. The person she is speaking with KNOWS there is a video camera in the elevator and does not want to be identified.

    Is there video of her speaking with anyone in the lobby, leaving with anyone on the days before or just hanging out with someone?

    Those are my nagging questions. I think the LAPD does have other video with "persons of interest" and is just not sharing it with us.

  7. #7
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    IMO it had to have been a homicide.

    I believe it is extremely unlikely that she was psychotic, primarily because Bipolar Type 2 (which Elisa was diagnosed with) does not manifest with true mania/psychosis, but hypomania. In rare cases I suppose it probably may happen. This is just knowledge that I have as a sufferer of depression myself, so I'm not an expert.

    I believe someone despicable encountered or met Elisa, took advantage of her vulnerable state, and committed an atrocious crime.

    And I also strongly believe that it's possible that the elevator video we see is of Elisa frantically attempting to leave a situation where she has realized she's been drugged; IMO, it is why she left without her glasses and seems collected at first - and like someone said in the main thread, there are safety guides for young travelers saying that you should press all the buttons so you throw off your attacker. I don't think she expected to hit Door Hold. I think it's possible that she began to hallucinate after the drugs began kicking in, explaining the sudden bizarre gestures and acting like she's talking to someone in the elevator. And from there my speculation runs dry.

    JMO 100%.

    RIP Elisa, and may there be justice.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by commspecialist View Post
    IMO it had to have been a homicide.

    I believe it is extremely unlikely that she was psychotic, primarily because Bipolar Type 2 (which Elisa was diagnosed with) does not manifest with true mania/psychosis, but hypomania. In rare cases I suppose it probably may happen. This is just knowledge that I have as a sufferer of depression myself, so I'm not an expert.

    I believe someone despicable encountered or met Elisa, took advantage of her vulnerable state, and committed an atrocious crime.

    And I also strongly believe that it's possible that the elevator video we see is of Elisa frantically attempting to leave a situation where she has realized she's been drugged; IMO, it is why she left without her glasses and seems collected at first - and like someone said in the main thread, there are safety guides for young travelers saying that you should press all the buttons so you throw off your attacker. I don't think she expected to hit Door Hold. I think it's possible that she began to hallucinate after the drugs began kicking in, explaining the sudden bizarre gestures and acting like she's talking to someone in the elevator. And from there my speculation runs dry.

    JMO 100%.

    RIP Elisa, and may there be justice.
    Thank you so much for posting. Your personal experience is valuable in this case. But I did want to note that apparently psychosis does manifest in Bipolar II:
    Abstract

    INTRODUCTION:

    Psychotic symptoms in bipolar II disorder, allowed by definition only during a depressive episode, are present in a range between 3% and 45%. Little is known regarding the impact of psychotic symptoms on the clinical course of bipolar II patients. Findings from previous reports are controversial and focused specifically on bipolar I disorder. The aim of this study was to ascertain the clinical characteristics of individuals with bipolar II disorder with and without lifetime history of psychotic symptoms.
    METHODS:

    The sample consisted of 164 DSM-IV Bipolar II patients consecutively recruited from the Barcelona Bipolar Disorder Program. Patients were divided in Bipolar II patients with (N=32) and without (N=132) lifetime history of psychotic symptoms. Clinical and sociodemographic features were compared.
    RESULTS:

    Thirty-two out of 164 patients with bipolar II disorder had a history of psychosis during depression (19.5%). Bipolar II patients with a history of psychotic symptoms showed a higher number of hospitalizations than patients without such a history (p<0.001). They were also older but were less likely to have a family history of bipolar illness and any mental disorder than non-psychotic bipolar II patients. Melancholic and catatonic features were significantly more frequent in psychotic bipolar II patients (p<0.001).
    CONCLUSIONS:

    Our findings confirm that the presence of psychotic symptoms in bipolar II disorder is not rare. Psychotic bipolar II disorder may be a different phenotype from non-psychotic bipolar disorder.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20457470
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  9. #9
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    So my internet crapped out and I have no idea if this was posted or not.

    I have no idea what happened to her. But since people are still talking about her behaviour on the elevator I will throw in my two cents:

    What if she had just finished watching a scary movie? Think about it, you just finished watching a spooky movie, you've probably heard that the place was haunted, and then the elevator starts acting funny. It explains the jumping, the hiding, the hand gestures (Talking to herself), the smiling (Joking with herself about "Come on now, you really think a Zombie is going to come get you?"). The only problem with that theory is that it means she wasn't drugged, wasn't having a mental collapse, and no one was with her.

    Sometimes I wish life was more like CSI, I don't think we'll ever get the full story. Even if someone does get charged for murder

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    129
    I think it was premeditated homicide. I think the motive was her medicines. I think it was the odd behavior that made her stand out in the Cecil like a rabbit in a den of wolves. I don't think she was drugged intently in the video but is just the effects of her medications late at night after a glass of wine, when her body is tired and they are all that is keeping her going.

    I have thought about who could have access to her room. Night-shift. --- Security. One of the Lobby Boys took her on a tour of the hotel and up to the roof through the door. --- Housekeeping. Her body could fit under a cleaning cart and be hidden temporarily or transported. Does housekeeping have keys to the roof? The cart would have to be cleaned of scent afterwards - wonder if anyone noticed someone sterilizing their cart.

    Where was her room located?? Was it near a fire escape --- did it have an adjacent door? A resident, drug-addicted thief could pick the lock and enter her room if it had an adjacent door. They would have to be pretty brazen to carry her corpse up the fire escape, but it could be done if they had an Army duffel, etc. They would have to know about the water tank ahead of time.

    Regardless of how it was done, I think both the presence of her odd behavior and her corpse in the water tank are good indicators of premeditation. I am hopeful that the LAPD are being so stringent about details because they already have a suspect and do not wish to spook him into hiding.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    113
    Drugs and Psychosis/Sleep Walking should be two separate categories, IMO. One is an external influence based on her own decision, the other is a symptom of a mental sickness.

    If Elisa Lam did have a mental breakdown, it would be likely that she had exhibited those symptoms before - the past two years, during her trip, during her stay at the Cecil. If she didn't exhibit signs of sleep-walking / paranoia / etc... in the past, then it's highly unlikely that she had those symptoms then.

    It's also important to be clear that Accidental - drug-induced is if she took drugs willingly, and either slipped into the water tank by herself, or died from a overdose and dumped into the water tank (which is a separate crime, not murder).

    Pre-planned is interesting, because she died on her last day in LA. If she had stayed at the hotel for 20 days and died on her last, it would be suspicious. 5 days isn't much of a timeframe, but is still noteworthy. Perhaps the murderer realized he had to do something before she left. He would have to know when she would check out - pointing to a friend or a hotel employee.

  12. #12
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    Feb 2013
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    For me, I do not think it's suicide. At this stage, I think each of the other options is equally possible.

  13. #13
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    Feb 2013
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    - Possibly under the influence of Drugs/alcohol

    - Is in the company with someone who Kills her inside the Hotel

    - Moved to the roof....placed inside the Tank by someone familiar with the Building/roof

    - Video better describing how she ends up inside the tank>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRa9nDWdmZo
    Last edited by AlphaWolf; 03-03-2013 at 09:58 PM.

  14. #14
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    I marked crime of opportunity but I think it could have also started as a weird accident that was then covered up.

  15. #15
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    Mar 2005
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    I marked homicide/ crime of opportunity. I do believe that EL was sufferieng from mental illness and maybe even was demonstrating that on the video I do not think she could have put herself in that tank. The organization and steps required for her to end up as she did seem to involved for someone who is in a paranoid state to attend too.

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