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  1. #316
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    Indeed, 13, originally a good number to ward off evil, became a number associated with evil. Funny how that works. Also, wouldn't that make the 14th floor in reality the 13th floor?

    In a way, it's like how in some hotels in countries with a strong Chinese influence, there's no 4th floor. "4" in Chinese sounds like the word for "death" so Chinese hotels skip the 4th floor. I'd imagine that "14" is also not such a nice number to have for a similar reason.

    (Not to distract, but for those who love coincidences, and I'm sure this has been mentioned numerous times, EL apparently was checked into a room on the 4th floor and coming from the 14th floor.)

    Quote Originally Posted by four_seasons View Post
    Isn't that a common thing? a lot of building don't have 13th floor because 13th isn't a good number.....

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conductor71 View Post
    Yep, I'm one of the oddballs here who does not believe that is her account.
    IMO, unless any social media account is authenticated officially by police or immediate family we have no business there. Maybe it has and I missed it.

    I would need to have that proven before I relied on that for info. No offense to people using that, but it bums me that there are many smart people here who are so caught up on this Tumblr thing they miss the few basic, yet really important facts shared by the family and LAPD. For example, it is March and people are still perseverating over her glasses when they are in fact at her home in Vancouver where she left them. It was reported in the LA Times before her body was found on February 13th.

    Sorry to be so anal; in my day job I am a librarian, so this kinda stuff drives me buggy. I certainly do not have many answers, but IMHO I honestly think we have created our own massive red herring with the Tumblr account.
    So the fact that the Twitter name "lambetes" was positively identified as Elisa Lam in "RIP" messages by her Twitter followers who had met her in person is not sufficient evidence for you? And the fact that same "lambetes" account identified herself as a commenter directly linking to the "Tumblr thing" does not convince you either? Sorry to drive you buggy, but a lot of work and documentation has been done--in these very forums--to prove the social media accounts belong to Elisa, if you would care to do a little back-reading.

    And where is the link to the LA Times story saying her glasses were left in Vancouver? I can go back through five threads and find numerous posts verifying her social media accounts, but can't recall one linking to this "really important fact" you are talking about. There were articles when she was missing that said she may not have her glasses, but I'm pretty sure those were related to the video or the fact her glasses were found in her room.

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conductor71 View Post
    For example, it is March and people are still perseverating over her glasses when they are in fact at her home in Vancouver where she left them. It was reported in the LA Times before her body was found on February 13th.
    Do you have the link to that article? If it's the same one I'm remembering, it sounded to me more like they were stating she didn't have her glasses with her e.g. she left them in her room when she went missing. So that if people saw her someplace they wouldn't miss her because she wasn't wearing glasses. I didn't read it that she left them at home entirely. I'm curious because I do think it would be useful information if she left them in Canada vs just didn't have them when she disappeared.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodled1 View Post
    Keep your mind open to all possibilities, it serves no purpose to exclude things based off of personal feelings.

    It could be it might not be but to dismiss it so easily might be a bigger red herring than to accuse it of being one...lol
    Touch.


    I will agree to having a bias...I am far too old to "get" Tumblr; it is far too complex looking for me to feel at ease quoting it, but that does not mean I am myopic.

    Hmmm... I don't know how to put this so I don't sound snotty or like I have a stick up my butt about Tumblr cause I don't. Maybe this: If we were really working the investigation would we ignore what her family says about her preferred method of travel and her absence of any medical condition, or posts on an account that may or may not be hers? Granted, she may not have disclosed any mental health issues, so blog may be more accurate in that case.

    To be fair, I have absolutely no proof she traveled Amtrak; I am going on what her family told police but backing it with a little common sense and the very real fact she was in LA on the 26th. EL would have incurred a hefty fee if she had changed a flight. However, if she did miss a flight she could have taken Amtrak instead. There, that is a possibility too. See, I am open minded!

  5. #320
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    Stay on Main

    I haven't seen this linked in this forum; if it is against the rules to provide this link I apologize, I'm new, please don't ban me!

    Some people have questioned why Elisa Lam would have stayed at the Hotel Cecil. We know she checked into the Stay on Main, which takes up several floors of the Cecil, but perhaps their website will answer why she thought it safe to stay there:

    http://www.stayonmain.com/

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaWolf View Post
    Thanks...


    I just thought I would try and help, I climb fixed roof ladders quite often....115lbs is too much to carry up by yourself.

    especially leaving no obvious marks on the body.
    Yes, especially in the tight gap between the tanks, and having to lay the body over the pipes at the top of the tank. Surely there have to be some body marks if indeed she was carried there.

    Which leads me to lean towards the theory that she made it there herself, either to run and hide from some real or imaginary threat, or under some drug induced hallucination. This is one likely scenario if the ladder was already by the tank. One issue though is how dark it is at the tanks in the dead of night? Anyone care to physically find out?

  7. #322
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    I just read this. Elisa Lam may be buried on March 9.
    http://english.sina.com/world/2013/0303/567551.html

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptandj View Post
    Re-watching the video [removed], two things strike me:

    (1) Around 1:40, when she pushes all the buttons then immediately gets out, it seems like maybe she's intentionally stalling the elevator? What if (SPECULATION ONLY) she's actually waiting for someone this whole time and holding the elevator intentionally. Still think her behavior indicates something going on in addition to just waiting normally, but that could be plausible. Then when they show up, they decide to take the stairs instead? This could also explain the peeking and connects back to the possible game scenario (she's trying to surprise whoever she's waiting for, maybe).

    (2) The box step could just be that she's looking in the mirror and trying to get in without looking (again with the possibly-intoxicated-playing-around idea).

    Something that always stood out to me in relation to the video was the weird way she contorts her foot several times as she was turning around and also her (in my opinion) bracing or steadying herself on the elevator. In my mind, this shows that there was something "off" about her whether it be from drugs or alcohol intentionally taken.... or unintentionally. I do not see it as she was playing or fooling around, but rather that she is in an altered state of some type. Her movements are just too strange. That is just me.
    "It is the brain, the little grey cells on which one must rely. One must seek the truth within--not without." Hercule Poirot

  9. #324
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    Like most people here, I have watched the elevator video over and over again looking for any clues.

    There are many things in the video that remain unclear to me regardless of how many times I watch it. However, there are several things that I am 100% certainty about. These are:

    1. The item being noticed by people at the 2:28 part of the video is absolutely Elisa Lam's own left foot. I understand why people questioned whether it is another person's hand or another person's foot because to be her foot, she would have to have her feet positioned in a manner that most of us would find awkward.

    However, I would like you to please pause the video at 1:30 or 1:31, you will see her do this same thing with her feet reversed. Therefore, what is not contestable is that she does this with her feet when she is turning.

    What can be disputed of course is why she does this. It is odd if you use the average person as your gauge for normal. My personal opinion is that she is very loose jointed. Commonly, people call this double jointed. All it means is that her joints are held together more loosely than the average person. I am more loose jointed than average myself, although not as much as Elisa Lam I believe.

    There are other indications that she is loose jointed besides the video. There are at least two pictures that indicate this as well. I assume everybody here is familiar with the picture in which she is wearing a black hooded coat (with hood up); under the coat is the same flannel jacket as in the released police photo of her; she is holding a baby blue camera in front of her face. In this photo, you can see that her thumb is positioned strangely on the camera. As soon as I saw this photo, I knew she was "double jointed."

    Another photo where she appears to be possibly double jointed is one in which she is flashing the peace sign in a black and white photo where she has piggy tails. Her fingers that are flashing the V curve backwards at more than a straight angle. Most people's fingers do not do this.

    I have no doubt that she (like me) could easily all her life bend over and touch the palms of her hands to the floor with her legs straight at any time without stretching, practicing, warming up, gymnastics training etc. If the police asked any school p.e. coach of hers this or anyone else who would have had cause to ask her to touch her toes, I know they will find this to be the case.

    2. The second thing that is clear is that it is her. I have a hard time understanding people who claim that it does not look like her. All of the particular details of her face match including the slope of her eyebrows, proportions of the face, shape of the nose and chin, etcetera.

    The fact that it is her is further confirmed by the fact that none of her family has come forward to state that it is not her. They would know best.

    3. The next clear fact, that I think most people have concluded by now but just in case...the door to the elevator stayed open for so long because she pushed the DOOR HOLD button. You can clearly see her do this in the video. Numerous close up photos of the elevator button panel are available on the internet so it is rather easy to match up what she was pushing to what the actual buttons were.

    Many people have said that a DOOR HOLD button shouldn't keep a door open that long. I think they are wrong. First evidence is the Chinese boys who traveled to the Cecil to investigate. They confirmed that the door stays open for exactly two minutes.

    The second piece of evidence is weaker, however, I found a webcache on the internet entitled, "Hydraulic Elevator Data Forms," I don't know if I can post the url because I don't understand the details of the user rules for this forum. But on that webpage, which is a form that a professional elevator company has its clients fill out with their information and elevator setting preferences, there is a specific reference to the DOOR HOLD button.

    The DOOR HOLD option gives two choices, switch or button. With the choice of button, it states, "max hold=120 seconds." Of course, this does not directly tell us anything about the elevator that Elisa rode in. However, it does add further evidence that two minutes is either industry standard or common or at least a possible amount of time for the DOOR HOLD button to keep an elevator door open. This sheet also indicates that the customer can choose how long they would like this button to keep the door open with two minutes being the maximum and no minimum being noted.

    Elisa pressed this button once at 0:12 and then again (repeatedly) between 1:35 to 1:49.

    This easily explains why the door wouldn't close. The Youtube video timer then shows the door beginning to close at about the 2:58 mark. Assuming the elevator was operating independently, this could mean one of two things. First, the hotel had the DOOR HOLD button set for about a minute. Or second, the elevator camera is motion activated.

    If you watch the elevator door as it begins to open at 2:58, you will see that it seems to go from completely closed to several inches open. This probably indicates that the camera is motion detector activated and did not engage until it saw motion, so it missed the intial opening of the door for long enough that the first inch or two of the door opening were not recorded.

    So the camera could have been inactive for a period of about a minute. The police will know this for sure if they are doing their jobs.

    It is not necessary to postulate that somebody was nefariously controlling the elevator for their own amusement or to commit a crime against Elisa Lam.

    4. I do not know if Elisa Lam was under the influence of alchohol or drugs. However, I think if you watch the video clearly, you can see that she was not drunk or drugged to a high degree.

    I say this because of the movement she does at 0:57. She has her back to the elevator door. She steps quickly to position herself perfectly at the center of the open elevator door. She begins the motion of stepping backwards into the elevator and then (after she begins to step back) she quickly glances over her left shoulder to confirm where her body is relative to the open door, then she surely completes her motion.

    Most people who are severely compromised by drugs or alcohol do not even have a clear grasp of area/depth of their surroundings in front of them which they can see, not to mention if they could have that much understanding of where they are relative to objects behind them which they are not looking at.

    Of course, I think she would have had either direct or peripheral reference because of the mirror to her left front. However, even using that as a reference, her movements are too sure to be that of a severely compromised individual.

    So I think that in fairness to her, I would like to see discounted the suggestions that this video shows that she crawled into the water tank because she was high or drunk.

    5. The roof was accessible at all times to anyone who can climb a fire escape. Elisa Lam weighed 115 pounds. Most American men are strong enough to carry her up a fire escape if they want to.

    I think that it is possible as well that the alarm was off for the roof. A long term resident could certainly have acquired a master key over time. I was in a museum last year and found a key on the floor. I turned it in to the front counter. They said it was a master key to for the museum and could open every door to the museum. I knew it was a museum key because it was very heavy duty and not like a regular house key.

    Let's put it this way, if Elisa Lam could figure out how to get to the roof and into the tank (which is some people's hypothesis) then another resident or person could easily do the same thing with her dead body.

    6. This ends the things I am sure about so far. In sum, there is no evidence from this video that there is anybody INTERACTING with Elisa Lam or visible to her.

    What I still have questions about are:

    a. Why did she push all of the buttons on that row? It is not fair to her to make assumptions about that. There could be any number of reasons. Maybe she has OCD. Maybe she is stupid (plenty of people are) about practical functioning of technical things like elevators. Maybe she read or heard somewhere that very day you should push a lot of buttons when you are a woman traveling alone so she decided to implement it. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I am not going to conclude any of these is the case without evidence, including the conclusion that she is crazy or high/drunk.

    b. Why did she turn toward the elevator and make the strange hand gestures? I will say on this that when I am alone and something inanimate is not functioning like I would like it to, I often start yelling at it and gesture as well. It is just a way to release tension and frustration. I also open my hands, fingers splayed and move them around while saying things like, "Why won't you work. What the hell is wrong with you?" That doesn't make me crazy. I know the computer, remote control, riding lawn mower, dead car battery, etcetera can't actually hear me. It just makes me feel better to say it. My boyfriend often actually hits items that aren't working and breaks them. He broke his computer because he punched it because it wasn't cooperating with him. I don't hit stuff I am mad at because that just makes the situation worse. But regardless, neither of us would crawl into a 10 foot water tank. I think it is unfair to assume that she is crazy when it is an obvious option that she could have just been blowing off a little steam complaining to the elevator about why it wasn't working for her. This isn't the only option to explain her hand gestures and talking, however, it is the simplest. And she was directly looking at the elevator door or control panel while she did it.

    You've never yelled or even cussed at a bolt that was stuck/fused on your brake pad or something like that? I never dated a guy who didn't cuss and yell at a vehicle at least once while he was working on it. Does that make you a crazy person who would kill yourself in some bizarre manner?

    c. Why was she hiding in the corner of the elevator? I don't know. Maybe she heard something?

    Something I would like to know is if the DOOR HOLD causes the elevator to make a chiming sound. She has her hands up to her head at 1:22 and I can't tell why. Was she covering her ears? Was she holding her head in consternation? Was she admiring herself in the mirror?

    My greatest wish for Elisa Lam is that the police do not conclude that she put herself in the tank. I think somebody else put her there. I do not believe that she was (at least at the time of the video) drunk or high enough to put herself there. I don't think she was likely depressed enough (when she first walks in the elevator, she seems to be in a pretty good mood). And I don't think her history indicate that she is a crazy person.

    It is also not common sense for the average woman to kill herself this way.

    When you find a woman's body dead in a sealed space, the chances are 99.999999% that somebody else put her there to conceal their crime. It would be very unfair to her to assume otherwise out of convenience or ineptitude.

    This leads me to another thing which bothers me, and that is the competence of medical examiners and coroners. Did anybody else watch the Frontline expose about the necessary certifications to be hired to be an m.e. or coroner? Please watch it. It is frightening that a completely incompetent idiot could be the person who has the legal right to make important official pronouncements about a person's death.

    There is this similar report from NPR...

    http://www.npr.org/2011/02/02/133403...etermine-death

    In my opinion, it would be a disgusting insult to every human being who has to rely on the authorities for justice not to investigate her death as a homicide unless somebody comes up with extremely firm evidence that it was a result of her own misadventure or suicide. If it were me, I would hope that if I was found dead in a sealed container, that people wouldn't just blow it off as my own doing.

    We are not permitted to take the law into our own hands. This means that we are required to rely on law enforcement and courts to protect us and administer justice. This system regularly puts convicted criminals back on the streets to prey on all of us again. We are all at the mercy of this system. This girl was staying in a hotel with convicted predators. Released predators walk every street in every city in our country. Given this, the least they can do is give this girl the benefit of the doubt that she didn't crawl into a water tank and close the lid over herself considering the more likely scenario that somebody else put her there. That just adds insult to injury, doesn't it?

  10. #325
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    Hi,

    If I remember the police said there was no known medical/mental issues? So we are basing bipolar and all her medicines on her Tumblr post?

    Getting to know someone's diagnosis can be very dangerous as it alteres the way we see them and we get biased. I think many of us here at WS lean towards suicide because of her diagnosis.

    I don't think she committed suicide, because if she had wanted to do that, she would have chooses a much easier method.

    To be inside of a watertank itself just screams "not to be found". As in covering up a crime.

    I am leaning towards accidental death/homicide.

    I have watched the video from the elevator several times, even before reading discussions about it. I really wish I remember what my first thought was!! Because now I have read so many different opinions and I think my own analysis of it is worth nothing anymore


  11. #326
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    Around Christmas time 2012, I had assumed that EL was around her home (Vancouver area.) Some reasons being:

    0. Dec 10: "So it’s my final 48 hours in Ontario before returning to home."
    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...ts-my-final-48

    She plans on going "home."

    1. Dec 21: "I figured out where I caught the goddamn flu from. THE BLOODY AIRPLANE RIDE HOME. Stuck inside a tiny little room with recycled air means I damn well will pick something up." (bold added by me)
    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...ed-out-where-i

    Thus implying that she had flown home.

    2. Dec 18: She celebrates her grandmother's 87th birthday perhaps at home ("the dinner table")
    "Tonight was my grandma’s 87th birthday and it was nice because I was able to sit down at the dinner table and it was not a big deal for me. Yeah….a family dinner where I willingly sat down, made conversation and it was all very good. This is if anything, a miracle, and an indication I am doing much better. "
    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...rds-and-theyll

    This assumes, of course, that grandma and "family" are back around the Vancouver area/home.

    3. Jan 5: "I just found a copy of A Farewell to Arms that my mom probably bought in the 80s for $1 or something."
    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...o-arms-that-my

    I'm making a guess that just finding a book EL's mom bought means EL was at her parents' place.

    4. Dec 23: This isn't as strong, but on Dec 23 she talks about finishing 9 hours of retail hell (I think she worked in a women's shoe store) http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...hift-of-retail

    This job apparently started on Dec 20th (this posting on Dec 19th mentions she's starting work "tomorrow" http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...o-see-who-ends)

    She works until at least Dec 28th: She mentions being tired from work on the 28th of December (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...-might-just-be).

    5. She goes with some friends (including a very good close friend) to a dance club http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...roup-of-people

    This sounds less touristy and more like things one may do (work, hang out with a very close friend) in one's hometown.



    I see the posting about her travel plans that start off in Vancouver:
    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...the-west-coast

    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/p...ncouver-jan-18

    Seems to me she was at her parent's home. Perhaps her home and Vancouver aren't that close? If Vancouver is her home, then perhaps some time after Jan 5th, she left the area? Anyway, perhaps if people knew what city her parents lived in, everything would make more sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    noodled1 started a timeline for us in the previous thread. Maybe we can fill in some dates ...

    The Toronto hostel staff said that Elisa stayed there for about a week in early December.

    From the social media accounts:

    On December 6 the lambete Twitter account says they will be in Toronto "until next Tuesday" (which would be December 11).

    The tumblr account has her arriving in Vancouver on January 18.

    Where do we think Elisa was from December 11 to January 18?
    Last edited by samevo8; 03-04-2013 at 04:15 AM.

  12. #327
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    [ame="http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwMTcxNjYw.html"]蓝可儿命案·专访洛杉矶*方有关负责 人:*方澄清网络*言 透露案件进展[新闻早报]—在线*放—优酷网,视频高清在线 看[/ame]

    Hey guys, just came across the above video published on one of the Chinese website.... forget about the Chinese stuffs. According to the LPAD (Andrew Smith):

    1. The body was pretty much the whole time in the tank (not hidden for two weeks and placed into the tank afterwards)

    2. The lid was closed when the body was found

    3. And he also thinks the body was floating

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamaster View Post

    3. And he also thinks the body was floating
    Thanks for posting that. I only watched it once but I think what I heard him say was only that, " I'm not sure if her body was on the bottom or on the top but certainly a body on the bottom would be difficult to see." I might be wrong but I don't remember him saying that he thought the body was floating. There is a big difference between saying those two things. The devil is in the details as they say.

  14. #329
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    According to the interview, sounds like the officer wasn't sure if the body was at the bottom or the top and that "certainly a body at the bottom would be difficult to see."

    If the lid was closed then I'm thinking EL didn't close it, although I wouldn't rule that out unless I saw how the lid operated. That'd make me think that either:
    1. Someone closed the lid knowing EL was inside.
    2. Someone closed the lid not knowing EL was inside (esp if EL was at the bottom and hard to see), most likely:
    a. a maintenance worker during the time EL was missing, noticing a lid open (I'd assume open lids for water supply should not be open.)
    b. the maintenance worker responding to the low water pressure complaint closes the lid after seeing EL in the cistern.

    Quote Originally Posted by seamaster View Post
    蓝可儿命案·专访洛杉矶*方有关负责 人:*方澄清网络*言 透露案件进展[新闻早报]—在线*放—优酷网,视频高清在线 看

    Hey guys, just came across the above video published on one of the Chinese website.... forget about the Chinese stuffs. According to the LPAD (Andrew Smith):

    1. The body was pretty much the whole time in the tank (not hidden for two weeks and placed into the tank afterwards)

    2. The lid was closed when the body was found

    3. And he also thinks the body was floating

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    Yes, especially in the tight gap between the tanks, and having to lay the body over the pipes at the top of the tank. Surely there have to be some body marks if indeed she was carried there.

    Which leads me to lean towards the theory that she made it there herself, either to run and hide from some real or imaginary threat, or under some drug induced hallucination. This is one likely scenario if the ladder was already by the tank. One issue though is how dark it is at the tanks in the dead of night? Anyone care to physically find out?
    You've mistaken his conclusion. He said that it's nearly impossible to carry 115lbs on a wall ladder, not the one beside the water tanks. He said the tight space and the pipes actually lends itself better to carry a body up the water tank.

    "Hiding in a water tank from a threat" is idiotic, even if you are psychotic. Has she ever "hidden" in weird places before? Has she had a past history of doing moronic things? Other than the reason, "she's crazy, therefore she'll do stupid things that I wouldn't do", why would you hide in a water tank? Why not hide in your room? Or the lobby? Or scream at the top of your lungs down the hallway? Maybe she was on the roof already and was in danger - so instead of heading for the 3 fire escapes or the rooftop door, she heads for the water tanks knowing there's a ladder for her to climb, knowing the lid is unlocked, and thinking that she'll be able to get out again, or that she wouldn't drown. It puts you at more danger, because you've trapped yourself. I would rank suicide as more likely.

    Getting back to the ladder and the dead weight - what if someone had a backpack that weighed 120lbs? Since the weight is evenly distributed, and you have both hands, wouldn't it be possible to carry someone up a wall ladder?
    Last edited by kingsway; 03-04-2013 at 04:48 AM.

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