playing devil's advocate

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madeleine

madeleine

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lol many things I do in my real life keep bringing me back to this case
I was watching a Dr.House episode...his patient had less than 3 hours to live but didn't wanna know what was causing her death.he was shocked,how is this possible,not wanting to know??in the end he figured it out,she wanted to die and even was the one who caused her illness....that's why she didn't wanna know (every other normal person would have wanted to know,makes sense)...

so...I was wondering....besides it being PAINFUL (but somehow anger and need for justice overcomes that )....WHY would an innocent parent

1.not want to know WHO killed the child
2.WHY his/her child was killed
3.re HOW I can understand it....it is indeed too painful....
4.just want to MOVE ON (so damn soon??)

most of the parents do want closure and try to move on but AFTER the killer is in jail,AFTER they did anything possible
most of the parents I heard of can't survive unless they get involved and help other victims/families
statistically,most of them are getting divorced (blame game)

I just wanna know,is there any reason why an innocent parent would behave like the Ramsey's did?Selfishness?Denial?Is it possible?
 
another thing....we know was why J.Douglas was hired,no need to go into the details again....
but if you're an innocent parent....why not use such an expert who could definitely HELP you understand why and who?????IIRC he was the one who offered to make a profile,nobody asked him to.....they didn't CARE
 
madeleine said:
lol many things I do in my real life keep bringing me back to this case
I was watching a Dr.House episode...his patient had less than 3 hours to live but didn't wanna know what was causing her death.he was shocked,how is this possible,not wanting to know??in the end he figured it out,she wanted to die and even was the one who caused her illness....that's why she didn't wanna know (every other normal person would have wanted to know,makes sense)...

so...I was wondering....besides it being PAINFUL (but somehow anger and need for justice overcomes that )....WHY would an innocent parent

1.not want to know WHO killed the child
2.WHY his/her child was killed
3.re HOW I can understand it....it is indeed too painful....
4.just want to MOVE ON (so damn soon??)

most of the parents do want closure and try to move on but AFTER the killer is in jail,AFTER they did anything possible
most of the parents I heard of can't survive unless they get involved and help other victims/families
statistically,most of them are getting divorced (blame game)

I just wanna know,is there any reason why an innocent parent would behave like the Ramsey's did?Selfishness?Denial?Is it possible?
Click to expand...

BBM No! Innocent parents don't forgive their daughter's killer before the killer is found and prosecuted. Innocent partents don't refuse to be interviewed by LE for over 4 months. Innocent parents don't lawyer up instantly. Innocent parents don't try to fly cross country for a business meeting hours after their daughter is found murdered in their own home. Innocent parents don't point the finger at every friend or acquaintance that doesn't buy their story. Innocent parents don't have a paid army of lawyers and investigators do everything they can to interfere with the investigation. Innocent parents don't have to take 5 LD tests before they pass. Innocent parents don't change the date of death on their daughter's headstone. Innocent parents don't go on every talk show they can find talking about how perfect their family is, and what great Christians they are. Innocent parents don't set up mythical foundations for their daughter. Innocent parents don't write books and make a profit off of their daughter's murder.
 
am putting together some Ramsey quotes,it amazes me how much they like to use terms like evil,monster,creature,things that aren't real and don't exist,how they try to detach themselves from the horrible crime....amazing how much BS they want us to swallow....


---------------

J. RAMSEY: There is a dangerous killer loose, we believe. This killer, if he's still alive, will kill again. It's time to get on with that.

P. RAMSEY: I'm worried for the entire country. There is a killer walking around out there someplace.
------------

“He’s either alive, dead or in prison, and one of those three,” John Ramsey told ABC News’ Juju Chang.

“It’s pretty dead, I’m afraid,” Ramsey said.

“I don’t know for sure what happened, and I don’t want to know, really,” John Ramsey said.

------------------

While there is a rage within me that says,

19 give me a few minutes alone with this creature and

20 there won't be a need for a trial, I would then

21 have succumb to the behavior which the killer did.



10 (INAUDIBLE). I mean, I don't know. I mean, I in my

11 mind think that there's one person; one creature.

12 LOU SMIT: Do you have a mental picture of

13 this person?

14 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't. I thought about that.

15 Again, that's too hard to think about.



4 MIKE KANE: Do you ever give

5 thought to maybe this was the result of a some

6 kind of a demon?

7 JOHN RAMSEY: No.

8 MIKE KANE: Demonic?

9 JOHN RAMSEY: (Shaking head).

10 Somebody, yeah. This is a creature that's out

11 there.



---------------

J. RAMSEY: No. This person is not a logical, normal person. That is mad man. This is a monster. They don't think logically. They don't think...
 
RAMSEY, P: And if anyone knows anything, please, please help us. For the safety of all of the children, we have to find out who did this.

RAMSEY, J: Not because we're angry,but because we have got to go on.

--------------

translation:we need a scapegoat!

and of course we're not angry with the kidnapper!he's a monster and monsters don't exist!
 
The thing I don't understand is that if JonBenet's death was not premeditated, that means that they didn't intend for her to die that day, but why did they act so strange? They still lost a child. But it seems like they distanced themselves from her.
 
I would like to believe that this is proof positive that a parent is NOT innocent. I mean, if this were the yard stick, then there is no way some of these parents (JB's included) arent involved.

But I dont know. Because I dont know if there is a right or wrong when it comes to the murder of your child. I think there is a typical, but if people themselves have a wide range of charecteristics, then it is reasonable to believe that their coping mechanisms have a similar wide range. jmvho.
 
eileenhawkeye said:
The thing I don't understand is that if JonBenet's death was not premeditated, that means that they didn't intend for her to die that day, but why did they act so strange? They still lost a child. But it seems like they distanced themselves from her.
Click to expand...
Like you mentioned, I've also seen a lot of distancing from the Rs. For instance, PR compared JB to Princess Diana, by calling her America's princess. It's like they were trying to turn her into an impersonal, larger than life caricature of herself. Also, JR's explanation for using the 25th as JB's death date, was the most impersonal thing I've ever heard. This was their daughter, but they talked about her, (and used her and profited from her name), like someone they barely knew. When they talked about her, I never sensed, (and still don't from, 'just more drama' JR), a true devastation. Like BR said in his psychological interview, (what? 13 days after JB's death?), he was 'getting on with his life'. With parents like the Rs, is it any wonder he acted like this? He learned from the masters of moving on and getting on with life.
 
dodie20 said:
Like you mentioned, I've also seen a lot of distancing from the Rs. For instance, PR compared JB to Princess Diana, by calling her America's princess. It's like they were trying to turn her into an impersonal, larger than life caricature of herself. Also, JR's explanation for using the 25th as JB's death date, was the most impersonal thing I've ever heard. This was their daughter, but they talked about her, (and used her and profited from her name), like someone they barely knew. When they talked about her, I never sensed, (and still don't from, 'just more drama' JR), a true devastation. Like BR said in his psychological interview, (what? 13 days after JB's death?), he was 'getting on with his life'. With parents like the Rs, is it any wonder he acted like this? He learned from the masters of moving on and getting on with life.
Click to expand...

Excellent observations Dodie!!
 
IDI's always claim that there is no history of domestic abuse/sexual abuse when it comes to the Ramsey's and when it comes to mental history people are mostly focused on PR....
What about JR though....I have watched every possible interview out there...she's always acting the same...he on the other hand seems to have multiple personalities....sometimes he seems very angry (but NOT with the situation),sometimes he's like a drugged puppy,full of love forgiveness for everybody,sometimes he's the cold blooded calculated business man....and I can't forget that interview on that religious channel (have the link somewhere but can't find it now) ....he's SO creepy there,he seems in a trance,delusional....

we know that he lost one daughter and that affected him DEEPLY.but we don't know much about that period of time and IMO it's important.

MAYBE he even lied about the medication he was taken at the time JB died....

If you watch Jeffrey MacDonalds,Michael Peterson and John Ramsey....they all have such similar personalities....the first is a convicted child/wife killer,the second killed a friend and his wife....but BOTH still claim in a very arrogant fashion that they didn't do it knowing how to manipulate and thinking they're the best of the best....they just love to hear themselves talk (hence all the TV appearances)....it's their own ego's (gonna get away with it cause I outsmart everybody) that but them where they belong...it's one of the reasons why I believe the R's would have been caught in a lie if LE pushed harder ....
 
eileenhawkeye said:
The thing I don't understand is that if JonBenet's death was not premeditated, that means that they didn't intend for her to die that day, but why did they act so strange? They still lost a child. But it seems like they distanced themselves from her.
Click to expand...


I feel the same way and this is what bothers/puzzles me from the beginning....if it was just an accident or if BDI.....they would have acted differently....I never saw regret,I never saw them blame themselves....nothing....it's not normal....if it was an accident they would have been DEVASTATED.But they moved on like NOTHING happened,like "whew,finally......",something like that....problem out of the way,she's in a better place,job done.....I will never get it.
 
on the other hand it could be very simple cause this is how abusers think....the victim is the guilty one,she's to blame,she tempted me,it's her fault for being beautiful and naughty,etc....they are living in a fantasy.....it's a relief when they get rid of the problem and they never consider themselves guilty of anything....she deserved it
 
dodie20 said:
Like you mentioned, I've also seen a lot of distancing from the Rs. For instance, PR compared JB to Princess Diana, by calling her America's princess. It's like they were trying to turn her into an impersonal, larger than life caricature of herself. Also, JR's explanation for using the 25th as JB's death date, was the most impersonal thing I've ever heard. This was their daughter, but they talked about her, (and used her and profited from her name), like someone they barely knew. When they talked about her, I never sensed, (and still don't from, 'just more drama' JR), a true devastation. Like BR said in his psychological interview, (what? 13 days after JB's death?), he was 'getting on with his life'. With parents like the Rs, is it any wonder he acted like this? He learned from the masters of moving on and getting on with life.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that Patsy chose to use the phrase "America's Princess" instead of "America's Child". Now, let's be honest, there would still be criticism if she had said "America's Child" but at least with that phrase, the parent could simply be saying that people all over the country were saddened by their daughter's death, and many parents of murdered children said that knowing how much support/prayers there were helped them a lot. But with "America's Princess", it's contributing to the whole "child beauty queen" label. Like there are children who are murdered, and then there's our daughter, JonBenet, the princess/queen.

(But I think what is more telling is not the label she used, but that she called into the Larry King Live show when they were talking about Princess Diana. The show was not about JonBenet. But when Diana died, it kicked everything else out of the news. It was like Patsy had to do something to get JBR's name back in the news cycle.)
 
it makes NO sense...if they thought it was a pedo then all the beauty thing lead to her death,right..and they bury her with the crown on her head?disgusting and makes no sense to me,really.if it was a pedo like JR likes to claim then the beauty thing is how she was targeted...you really wanna tell me that a husband like him never blames his wife for exposing the child like that?BS.the blame game happens IF the parents are innocent,it's a normal reaction and it's proven by statistics and stuff....
if it was a maniac who hated JR and wanted revenge how come PR never blamed JR and his business for JB's death....
 
madeleine said:
found the video....
here's part 1

http://www.cbn.com/tv/1422128225001
Click to expand...

Intersting....the interviewer states that hundreds if not thousands of children are killed in this country and across the world every year, JR & PR nodding the whole time. Then he says "often by family members" and the nodding stops abruptly!

Later JR says "We are very comfortable being accountable to the God of the universe." shaking his head no the whole time.

"John you've been accused of molesting you daughter, of being a sexual deviant, of going to these *advertiser censored* places." JR nodding yes the whole time.
 
he's twisting every religious thing out there....it's one thing to believe in God ,another to twist everything about it to suit you or a situation you're in....there are maniacs out there who do horrible things in "God's name" or because they think they understood it correctly....in this interview he sounds like a delusional fanatic to me....

add medication to this type of thinking + loss of a child(Beth) and see what comes out.....it's dangerous IMO
 
he's HIDING behind his so-called beliefs...that's what he does....hiding and avoiding ANSWERING serious questions....



CABELL: Are you fully convinced that your daughter was kidnapped by some outsiders outside your family or circle of friends?

RAMSEY, J: Yes. I -- we don't -- you know, it's just so hard to know, but we are -- our family is a loving family. It's a gentle family. We have lost one child. We know how precious their lives are .

HELLO???didn't you hear the question??
 
4 And then we lost Beth, my oldest daughter, in a

25 car accident, my religious foundations were

0046

1 shaken, big time. You know, how could that happen?

2 How could be allowed to happen? This wonderful

3 child, this person who had so much to give; who

4 was kind and loving. To be killed in a car

5 accident, where is this God, this caring loving

6 God?

7 But I did a lot of reading, a lot of thinking and,

8 frankly, my foundations were strengthened

9 ultimately by that. And when we lost JonBenet, I

10 think the foundation was there and helped

11 immensely and was further strengthened for me.

12 So it's been a spiritual growth. It's exactly

13 that. It's a growing process

YEAH.right!
 
madeleine said:
4 And then we lost Beth, my oldest daughter, in a

25 car accident, my religious foundations were

0046

1 shaken, big time. You know, how could that happen?

2 How could be allowed to happen? This wonderful

3 child, this person who had so much to give; who

4 was kind and loving. To be killed in a car

5 accident, where is this God, this caring loving

6 God?

7 But I did a lot of reading, a lot of thinking and,

8 frankly, my foundations were strengthened

9 ultimately by that. And when we lost JonBenet, I

10 think the foundation was there and helped

11 immensely and was further strengthened for me.

12 So it's been a spiritual growth. It's exactly

13 that. It's a growing process

YEAH.right!
Click to expand...
I gotta say - I tend to believe that JR believes everything that he says here. I have come to believe that both JR and PR considered themselves to be genuine victims. That they were compelled to do the right thing, and that they tried their best to do it.
 
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