circumstances compatible with intrusion

Many folks had keys to the house; LHP, Savage, Wilcox to mention a few, and a key was secreted under a rock near the front door.

There was a broken window in the basement through which the killer could have entered and/or exited: this is undisputed.

There was a suitcase positioned against the wall under that window, which had a small shard of glass on it which might have been deposited by someone's shoe as he stepped on the suitcase: this is disputed.

The Butler Pantry door was ajar: this is disputed.

There was a snow-free path to the alley via the basement window and the patio door when the Ramseys entered the house for the last time that evening: this has been argued about incessantly.

There was some frost and a light dusting of snow come morning, and officers reported observing no footprints; however, the snow had fallen early in the morning, and the frost had formed during the night. Frost doesn't form instantly; it requires proper temperature and humidity and TIME: this has been disputed.

JonBenet's dog, Jacques, was at the Barnhills' that night, having been taken there prior to the Ramseys' departure for the Christmas dinner at the Whites':
this is undisputed.

The alarm system was not on that night: this is undisputed.

The Ramsey parents' bedroom was up one story and at the opposite end of the house from JonBenet's bedroom: this is undisputed.

Burke's bedroom was at the opposite end of the 2nd story from JonBenet's bedroom: this is undisputed.

JonBenet's bedroom was near the spiral stairs: this is undisputed.

The ransom note was placed on a step near the bottom of the spiral stairs: this is what the Ramseys report, so, naturally it is disputed.

Steps near the bottom of the stairs were frequently used by the Ramseys and the housekeeper as a place to put things that needed the housekeeper's attention, and a place to leave notes: this is undisputed.

The spiral stairs, also called the back stairs, were Patsy's favorite means of ascent and descent between the 1st and 2nd floors. Other family members used the stairs too, though perhaps not quite as frequently: this is undisputed.

Those stairs landed on the 1st floor near the head of the Butler Pantry stairs (a short flight) and near the entry to a hallway which led shortly to the kitchen area and beyond: this is undisputed.

The Ramseys were absent from the house that evening for several hours: this is undisputed.

There was a ransom note shown to the officers and taken into custody by them: this is undisputed.

A neighbor reported hearing a child screaming around midnight-two: this is undisputed.

Officers determined that it was possible for the neighbor to hear such a noise, while the Ramsey parents and Burke might not: this is undisputed.

A bat was found in the Ramsey yard with fibers on it consistent with fibers from the carpet in the basement: this is undisputed.

The duct tape on JB's mouth was never sourced to anyone, let alone the Ramseys: this is undisputed.

The ligature cords, similarly, were never sourced to the house: this is undisputed.

A flashlight of unknown ownership was found sitting on a kitchen counter: the ownership of the flashlight is disputed. No prints were found on it nor on the voltaic cells inside it: this is undisputed.

A seasoned homicide investigator with a marvelous record, believes a stun gun was used on JonBenet: this is DEFINITELY disputed.

No stun gun was found in the house: this is undisputed.

No record of purchase by the Ramseys for a stun gun was ever discovered: this is undisputed.

No record of purchase by the Ramseys for the tape and cord were ever discovered: this is undisputed.

Animal hairs and cloth fibers were found on and around the body; the animal hairs have not been sourced to the Ramseys: this is undisputed. Some of the cloth fibers have not been sourced to the Ramseys: this is undisputed. Some of the cloth fibers MAY have been sourced to John: this is disputed.

Foreign DNA was found in the panties and under the fingernails of JB: this is undisputed.

This DNA was not sourced to the Ramseys: this is undisputed.

Boot/shoe prints were discovered on the floor of the wine cellar that haven't been sourced to the Ramseys: this is undisputed.

A pubic hair was found on the blanket which covered JB's body: there has been some argument over whether this is a pubic hair or hair from some other part of the body: this hair was not definitely sourced to the Ramseys.

JonBenet was found wearing panties that were way too big for her: this is undisputed.

JonBenet had been strangled with what has been popularly referred to as a garotte: this is undisputed.

JonBenet had been struck on the head with killing force: this is undisputed.

Red fibers similar to those of the shirt that Patsy gave to LE and thought she'd been wearing that night were found on the duct tape: this is undisputed.

That shirt had fibers of other colors manufactured into it also: no fibers similar to those were found on the duct tape: this is undisputed.

Similar red fibers were also found entwined in the cord wrapped around the garotte handle: this is undisputed.

No fibers of any other color were found there: this is undisputed.

A hair which may have come from a beaver was also found on the duct tape: this is undisputed.

The ransom note was written on paper from a pad sourced to the house and with a pen sourced to the house: this is largely undisputed.

These materials were readily accessible to anyone in the house who wished to use them: this is undisputed.

The paintbrush used as an element of the garotte, was readily accessible to anyone wishing to use it: this is undisputed.

Patsy's 911 call sounded genuine: this has been disputed.

There was no guest in the house who might have detected the presence of the killer: this is according to the Ramseys and is therefore disputed.

JonBenet was high profile owing to her participation in pageants and parades: this is undisputed.

That John Ramsey was the president of a large company and was a wealthy person was known to many: this is undisputed.

That he had made several enemies on his way up the ladder of success is not disputed.

That LHP expressed concern that JonBenet might be kidnapped is not disputed.

That Barbara Kostanick, a reliable person, reported that JonBenet confided that Santa was going to pay her a secret visit after Christmas is not disputed.

That many people, including strangers and contractors, etc., had been in the house from time to time prior to the murder is not disputed.

That there was no history of sexual abuse of the children, or corporal punishment meted out to the children, or spouse abuse is not disputed.

That there was no history of mental illness on the parents' part is not disputed.

That the Ramseys were loving and caring parents and good providers is not disputed.

That JonBenet was killed during the night when a killer would have had the advantage of the cover of darkness while approaching and leaving the house is undisputed.

This is the short list.....

The Pugh's were clearly psychic were they not!
The mrs. suggests the child "could be kidnapped" and the mr. asks, "did they strangle her".
The pads and pens in the Pugh's home , shown to the police, were identical to the ones found in the Ramsey home, suggesting they were a bit "lightfingered" ,as well.
Clearly Linda helped herself to this stationery, however, did she take new pads and pens, or did she just help herself to items she believed were left over and otherwise would be tossed in the trash? Alone in the house as a handyman,Nov.1996, did Merv find any items he liked? ..tools..flashlights..wrenches..
Linda helped Patsy on the 23rd., staying later than her normal hours, so late as to bring about a last minute invitation for Arianna. Patsy, the wonderful hostess that she was, quickly stepped up, not only lending Arianna some clothing but jotting down a quick little note for Santa to read about the child. Santa had a little note to read, provided by Patsy, to make each child's santa experience a personal one. What did Patsy have to gift to Arianna? Did they not all get a little gift? What would she have on hand for a 12 yr old girl?

What happened to the pad that was used for this note writing? Did Santa read each note from separated pieces of paper, or did he read from a pad? Would these notes account for the missing pages?

Edit to add..oops..sorry..off thread track..please continue..

sissi said:

The Pugh's were clearly psychic were they not!
The mrs. suggests the child "could be kidnapped" and the mr. asks, "did they strangle her".
The pads and pens in the Pugh's home , shown to the police, were identical to the ones found in the Ramsey home, suggesting they were a bit "lightfingered" ,as well.
Clearly Linda helped herself to this stationery, however, did she take new pads and pens, or did she just help herself to items she believed were left over and otherwise would be tossed in the trash? Alone in the house as a handyman,Nov.1996, did Merv find any items he liked? ..tools..flashlights..wrenches..
Linda helped Patsy on the 23rd., staying later than her normal hours, so late as to bring about a last minute invitation for Arianna. Patsy, the wonderful hostess that she was, quickly stepped up, not only lending Arianna some clothing but jotting down a quick little note for Santa to read about the child. Santa had a little note to read, provided by Patsy, to make each child's santa experience a personal one. What did Patsy have to gift to Arianna? Did they not all get a little gift? What would she have on hand for a 12 yr old girl?

What happened to the pad that was used for this note writing? Did Santa read each note from separated pieces of paper, or did he read from a pad? Would these notes account for the missing pages?

Edit to add..oops..sorry..off thread track..please continue..

Click to expand...

It could be argued that Linda Hoffman Pugh commenting on the possibility that JohnBenet might be kidnapped "sowed an idea" into the heads of those who heard the comment. Who did she say it to?

Jayelles said:

It could be argued that Linda Hoffman Pugh commenting on the possibility that JohnBenet might be kidnapped "sowed an idea" into the heads of those who heard the comment. Who did she say it to?

Click to expand...

LHP didn't have a wide audience, so the only ones who likely heard the kidnap comment would be the immediate members of the Pugh family and the Ramsey family.

That would leave Merv, Linda and Ariana; and John, Patsy and Burke.

BlueCrab said:

LHP didn't have a wide audience, so the only ones who likely heard the kidnap comment would be the immediate members of the Pugh family and the Ramsey family.

That would leave Merv, Linda and Ariana; and John, Patsy and Burke.

Click to expand...

Linda had her grown kids who had spouses and who had helped at the Ramsey's house, by her own admission.

Nehemiah said:

Linda had her grown kids who had spouses and who had helped at the Ramsey's house, by her own admission.

Click to expand...

I agree the ripple effect can take over and envelop dozens of people, but I'm trying to keep the number of people down to the MOST LIKELY who would have heard the kidnap comment from LHP.

I haven't followed the BTK as well as I would have liked, however I understand they took dna from his daughter's medical test to determine if "he" shared enough markers to arrest. (not certain if this is true)
Could this be the reasoning behind the BPD taking Arianna's dna two years after the murder? How would they "know" if Merv is her biological father?
Just wondering.................

sissi said:

I haven't followed the BTK as well as I would have liked, however I understand they took dna from his daughter's medical test to determine if "he" shared enough markers to arrest. (not certain if this is true)
Could this be the reasoning behind the BPD taking Arianna's dna two years after the murder? How would they "know" if Merv is her biological father?
Just wondering.................

Click to expand...

Hey, sissi,

You might be on to something. But, didn't LE take forensic samples from Merv? Why would they adopt this roundabout way of comparing his DNA? They could compare it directly. Also, surely they would ensure that he were her biological father first.

Ah..maybe to eliminate a brother or two?

sissi said:

Ah..maybe to eliminate a brother or two?

Click to expand...

Ah...why not get DNA from the brothers directly?

Why wait two years to check "FEMALE" dna?

sissi said:

Why wait two years to check "FEMALE" dna?

Click to expand...

Uh....why check female DNA at all?

Are we having fun?

RedChief said:

Uh....why check female DNA at all?

Are we having fun?

Click to expand...

The Forensic Lab (Cellmark?) said that the foreign DNA didn't match a Ramsey IF it came form only one person. If it came from more than one person, then no-one was eliminated. This sounds to me as though there may have been some uncertainty in this matter. Perhaps that is why they continued to test female DNA.

According to Beckner's depo, was it not said ,or insinuated, that DNAX was found neither on her body nor on her clothing. Does X ..make ya think female?

sissi said:

According to Beckner's depo, was it not said ,or insinuated, that DNAX was found neither on her body nor on her clothing. Does X ..make ya think female?

Click to expand...

sissi,

Yes, X makes me think female. An arrow makes me think male. Just kidding.

I forgot, is XX female and XY male or the other way 'round, or neither?

I was thinking the X stood for unknown.

There could have been a female participant in the crime--an outsider, or an insider; so, all DNA must be checked, right? Actually, the crime could have been committed by a lone female. However, how do we account for the male DNA in the underpants and under the nails?

Did Ariana own Hi-Tec boots?

This male DNA in the underpants that doesn't belong to John or Burke; boy, that's a headscratcher for the BDI's and the JDI's. It suggests (demands?) a fifth party in the house that night--the killer or his/her accomplice; the one who did the wiping. Did any of Burke's friends own clothing that might match the fibers? I don't suppose they would have brought towels with them, anticipating that they'd be needed for cleaning her up.

We can allow that the duct tape (John says it wasn't duct tape) wasn't torn from a roll that the killer brought with him, nor from a roll that was kept in the house. That could account for the "missing" roll. We can allow that the cord wasn't cut from a larger bundle or roll that the killer brought with him, or that had been kept in the house. That could account for the "missing" cord. How do we account for the "missing" stun gun? Did any of Burke's friends' parents own stun guns, or did the kids have access to a stun gun? Were any stun guns reported stolen around about that time? We can allow that the mystery fibers came from articles of clothing worn by the perps. That could account for the "missing" fabric.

Regarding the material found on the bed that matched material from the sack in JAR's room that contained the rope: is it possible that the killer/stager/accomplice initially intended to use that rope in staging and brought the sack into the bedroom and set it on the bed for that purpose, but soon changed his/her/their mind/s and opted for the synthetic nylon cord instead, replacing the sack in it's (original?) location or hiding it in the drawer in JAR's room? The rope in the sack: hidden rope in hidden sack?

Too much cord to have come from a ski jacket or GERRY?

'round and 'round we go....

sissi said:

According to Beckner's depo, was it not said ,or insinuated, that DNAX was found neither on her body nor on her clothing. Does X ..make ya think female?

Click to expand...

No - because it was Lin Wood who labeled it DNA-x - to distinguish it from the other DNA. Lin Wood did not appear to know of its existence prior to Beckner's depo and he desperately tried to get Beckner to elaborate. Beckner refused lest it should harm the investigation. All he would say was that it did not match Chris Wolf and that the Ramsey DNA HAD been compared to DNA-x. He refused to say whether they had a match to it or not.

Jayelles said:

No - because it was Lin Wood who labeled it DNA-x - to distinguish it from the other DNA. Lin Wood did not appear to know of its existence prior to Beckner's depo and he desperately tried to get Beckner to elaborate. Beckner refused lest it should harm the investigation. All he would say was that it did not match Chris Wolf and that the Ramsey DNA HAD been compared to DNA-x. He refused to say whether they had a match to it or not.

Click to expand...

Go Beckner.

One can come up with a long list of circumstances surrounding the death of JonBenet Ramsey, but some very basic facts of the case will soon make it quite clear that no "intruder" caused the death of this little girl.
Every homicide has circumstances or "evidence" as part of the crime scene that on the surface appears to be part of the crime but in fact has absolutely nothing to do with it. That's why forensics and good investigation and analysis is so crucial to solving a crime. You cannot ignore (hear this Smit?) facts in the case in order to promote your tunnel-vision theory. (Example: Smit likes to insist and demonstrate that some intruder may have entered and exited the house that night through the broken basement window. What Smit irresponsibly and unforgiveably OMITS is the FACT (from John Ramsey's own testimony) that a chair was pushed up against that basement door IN THE HALLWAY OUTSIDE OF IT - that led into the room w/the broken window and suitcase. John Ramsey discovered this fact the next morning. Smit KNOWS this. Yet, he ignores it. Because of course it eliminates the lame theory that some intruder entered the home and exited it through that window. Obviously it wasn't a ghost who was able to enter the room to exit out the window and walked through the closed door and pushed a chair up against it out in the hallway!

So there are some basic facts of this case that just cannot be ignored.
Facts that make the idea of some "intruder" being responsible for the crime ludicrous.
First and foremost is the Note. In my opinion, the note alone eliminates any thought of anyone but an immediate family member as being the author.
And of the immediate family members, it is patently obvious to me that Patsy Ramsey wrote that note. Whether in part with John's help and dictation or on her own - SHE wrote that note. Her linguistics, style, personality and handwriting cannot be eliminated and in certain parts point directly to her.

Now, tell me, of all the 6+ Billion people in the world - who ELSE was not only THERE at the crime scene that night, but had THEIR paper and pen used in the fake ransom note, cannot be eliminated as authoring the ransom note (for a number of reasons), had the habit of leaving items on the bottom stairs to be noticed when on the stairs, KNEW that Patsy used those stairs in the morning and would "discover" the note, had the same habits found in the note:
*phrases used: "and hence" "gentlemen" "southern common sense" "John" "when you get home" "$118,000" "attache', "be well rested"
*writing habits used in the note: the dramatic flair, long overdone length of the note, exclamation point overusage, acronnyms used (all habits of Patsy's)
And the fact that NO ONE ever called for the ransom money - even though great care was taken to HIDE the body. In the most remote place in the house.
NOTHING in that note was true. Only that JonBenet would not be found in her bed that morning. The motivation for writing the note in the first place.
To, as the FBI stated: try and EXPLAIN why she was missing and then when she was found, WHY she was dead. (kidnappers/foreign faction did it)

This is just ONE fact that eliminates any silly thought of some unknown intruder having chosen Christmas night of all nights of the year - to take the life of JonBenet Ramsey and leave a fake note that was obviously fake.
It has her mother written all over it - as do elements of the crime scene/body itself. (Her mother's fibers in the knot of the cord around her neck and in the paint tote where the brush was taken and broken; the child bundled up; the child laid on a blanket; the child's favorite nightie laid close by; her mother fully dressed in the SAME clothes she had on the night before when the officers arrived at 6:00am - making her claim that she rolled out of bed after her husband got up at 5:30 and did all the things she said she did by 5:52am an obvious LIE. Nowhere near the time to have accomplished them all... And the list goes on.

For the record, I still lean toward the Burke Ramsey actually started the whole crime and was the one who bashed his sister in the head.
The rest was done to cover up the crime and make it look like something else caused her death. (Something VISIBLE like a cord around her neck)
Both the initial wounds to JonBenet were NOT visible: Head wound and molestation. Although the blood from the molestation WAS attempted to be made invisible as well by wiping her down.

I believe the Ramseys THOUGHT JonBenet was dead after the head blow and thought that putting that tight cord around her neck would not cause further harm. To their horror they later learned they were wrong!

In my humble opinion of course....
~Angel~

Angel, I believe the door was open; that's what John said in one of his later interviews, but the chair was blocking the doorway, in his estimation. At any rate, he said he moved it aside before entering the room. In an earlier interview he said when he first came to the chair that morning, while looking around in the basement, he thought, "is that chair still there?" Apparently he had noticed it there at some time in the past. When the interviewer suggested that the chair blocking the door must mean that no intruder came through there, John said, not so; this is a clever guy, he left all those other tantalizing clues, [or words to that effect] so he might have replaced the chair after he went through the door. This was John's observation. I don't know what to make of it. John seemed to dismiss the idea of someone coming through the basement window on his first go-round with the interviewers; but, had changed his mind by the time he was subsequently interviewed. What does this suggest?

So, you have firsthand knowledge of Patsy's linguistics, style, personality and handwriting? Why weren't LE able to positively identify her as the writer/author of the note? Many QDE's did elminate her as the writer of the note. Of course, we have Foster who, according to Thomas, claimed he had determined that she wrote it, based on linquistics, etc.

Exclamation point overusage? Yes, I have heard this observation before, but I don't see the overusage. There were three exclamation points in the note, exactly where you'd expect them to be. There were numerous phrases and sentences in the note where exclamation points would have been appropriate but weren't used; e.g., she dies, she dies, she dies, she dies. I would say it is more the absence of exclamation points that is notable rather than that three were present.

So, you think Patsy wrote this little masterpiece after she'd killed JonBenet?

The paper and pen were readily accessible to anyone choosing to use them; they weren't hidden away in some drawer; they were right out in the open. And Patsy wasn't the only person who knew about her habit of leaving items on the bottom stairs to be noticed. LHP and others were equally aware of those habits.

That great care was taken to hide the body has been debated. I thought some care was taken to hide it. Some don't think there was any attempt to hide it. If she'd really wanted to hide it, why didn't she stuff it into a crawl space or pile stuff on it or place it behind something in the room so it would not be easily seen when the door was opened? I guess she did the best she could under the circumstances?

Yes, but all the things you mention are hotly debated, and for good reason. Many think the wine cellar scene was staged. Personally, I can't see the blanket-wrapped body as staging; but, the opponents get around that by suggesting that it wasn't really carefully wrapped; that the blanket had been used by the perp to carry the body or that the blanket was simply draped over the body to give the suggestion that she had been abducted from her bedroom. If we can believe John, she was comfortably wrapped like an Indian papoose. That doesn't appear to be staging to me. How to explain the Barbie gown? Was it one of JonBenet's cherished possessions? Plus, we have the renowned FBI profiler, John Douglas, saying the Ramseys didn't do it.

How could the Ramseys have thought JonBenet was dead after the head blow? She was breathing. Also, it hasn't been determined which fatal injury came first. Also, what is so terrible about an accidental death, that the Ramseys would elect this elaborate and risky means to keep it quiet?

Maybe I took more from Beckner's depot than was given, however in the way he evaded whether or not it had been checked against several men, inferring there was no need, IMO, suggested to me it was female.