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  1. #1
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    Why Did Paradise Lost 2 not invesgate John Mark Byers Alibi?

    Seeing as how Paradise Lost 2: Revelations spent the bulk of it's runtime casting suspension on John Mark Byers without ever even addressing the issue of where he said he was when the police originally investigated him, I can't help but suspect they knew they were pointing their fingers at an innocent man and simply avoided looking into anything which would prove as much. That said, I wondering if anyone here might have explanations other than deliberate misdirection to offer for consideration, either quotes from the makers of the film themselves or simply alternative speculation.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
    Seeing as how Paradise Lost 2: Revelations spent the bulk of it's runtime casting suspension on John Mark Byers without ever even addressing the issue of where he said he was when the police originally investigated him, I can't help but suspect they knew they were pointing their fingers at an innocent man and simply avoided looking into anything which would prove as much. That said, I wondering if anyone here might have explanations other than deliberate misdirection to offer for consideration, either quotes from the makers of the film themselves or simply alternative speculation.
    I do not believe they spent the bulk of runtime footage casting suspicion on John Mark Byers. They are documentarians not investigators, meaning they go where the story leads them to merely observe. JMB led them there and they filmed it. With JMB's super sized personality, he played his way into suspicion while other possible suspects quietly waited in his enormous shadow. Documentaries, by and large are character studies in a specific situation or event. One should never confuse documentaries with investigative reporting. All three Paradise Lost films are focused on the characters in this particular tragedy, not investigative work.
    Hinky Dinky Parlez Vous!-Sleuthy Gal

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    Quote Originally Posted by EntreNous View Post
    Documentaries, by and large are character studies in a specific situation or event.
    Hardly by any dentition of the terms I've seen. For example:


    documentary
    • a factual film or television programme about an event, person, etc, presenting the facts with little or no fiction


    character study

    • a work of fiction in which the delineation of the central character's personality is more important than the plot


    Given such definitions, suggesting the former is primarily the latter is akin to saying black is white. I thank you for bringing the second term into the discussion though, as I'd yet to think of doing so. Particularly in the case of PL2, rather than calling it a documentary as so many people do, it's far more accurately described as a character study.

    This gets back to what I was saying about Berlinger and Sinofsky spending the bulk of their runtime casting suspicion Byers, though of course I haven't sat down and tabulated out the times for every clip, so I may have overstated myself there. However, I was primary referring to how they started showing clips of the polygraph test around a third of the way into the movie and saved the results until nearly the end, along with all the other clips throughout demonstrating Byers' peculiar behaviors, and of course the clips of Echols, Baldwin, and various others pointing their fingers at Byers. Considering all that, it seems to me that PL2 might best best considered a character study casting suspicion on John Mark Byers.

    Of course Byers did play into that suspicion, but considering the fact Berlinger and Sinofsky gave him money to participate in the movies, one is left to wonder how much was done at their prompting rather than his own accord. For instance, I can easily imagine Byers mentioning visiting his wife's grave and Berlinger and Sinofsky simply asking to tag along to end up footage they used, but I rather doubt Byers came up with the whole ritual of incinerating mock graves in the creek bed on his own. Regardless, Berlinger and Sinofsky obviously made the chose to tell the story they wanted people to see rather than going were the evidence leads as an actual documentary would.

  4. #4
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    kyleb if you already knew the answer (as we know you're right, anyone with a different take than you is not so much correct) and had a detailed rebuttal; why did you even ask the question in the first place?

  5. #5
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    doc·u·men·ta·ry (dky-mnt-r)
    adj.
    1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
    2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

    while your definition of "character study" is true in the sense of an author creating a fictional person, it is incomplete. most adults are able to make the mental distinction between the real world/real people and fantasy. i apologize if you felt unclear to the point of looking up the definitions. i will try to simplify my responses to you from this point forward.
    understand kyleb that JMB is a real person thus that is the context in which "character study" is used in this case. i have spent my life in film making, production, and theater. i fully understand the industry terms. the documentarian's job is to allow his/her subject tell their own story through a standard character study--
    physical description: a formidable figure-backwoods in appearance, disheveled, ill-fitting dentures, blonde mullet, tall, defined mustache with beard unshaven, unkempt; traits: bombastic, waxing poetic, under the influence of drugs and or alcohol, (trouble enunciating at times/slurred speach, trouble with balance at times, etc.), frequent biblical references on vengeance, vitriolic, intense anger, intelligent and higher level of verbal proficiency than others; and analysis: JMB's story/association to the crime and victims as told by himself throughout the films.
    here is a helpful tool that will perhaps give you a better understanding of documentary making basics, including character studies...http://documentarystudies.duke.edu/u...y.original.pdf

    Hope this helps you!
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  6. #6
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    HastingsChi,

    I made this threads because I like to consider other people's understandings of matters so that I might better inform my own. I had no way to know how EntreNous would answer, or even that she would, and certainly had no means of formulating my reply to her until I read her response to me. That said, if your interest is in asking questions of me rather than discussing the topic of this thread, please use the private messaging function or perhaps start a new thread if you insist on doing it publicly, as I'd prefer this thread can remain focused on the topic at hand.

    EntreNous,

    Those definitions your quoted are for when the term is used as a verb, and the concur with the definition of documentary when used as a noun which I quoted previously. As for your claim of most people being able to distinguish between reality and fantasy, I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. A 2003 poll which showing 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link is one notable example of this, and I can provide plenty more upon request.

    And of course Byers is a real person, but that doesn't make Berlinger and Sinofsky's portrayal of him as likely to have murdered his son and two other boys any less "a work of fiction in which the delineation of the central character's personality is more important than the plot" , and puts the movie a long way from being "a factual film or television programme about an event, person, etc, presenting the facts with little or no fiction." The same is true of the wild finger pointing at Hobbs throughout the most recent Paradise Lost and West of Memphis.

  7. #7
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    hmm...wow.
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    What, am I to take that you are among those so tragically misinformed as to still believe the notion that Saddam had a hand in the 9/11 attacks? Even Bush has long since admitted it has no basis in reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
    What, am I to take that you are among those so tragically misinformed as to still believe the notion that Saddam had a hand in the 9/11 attacks? Even Bush has long since admitted it has no basis in reality.
    While no rational human being of sound mind would never bring the fabricated connection between Iraq and the September 11, 2001 attacks; you certainly found it appropriate to bring it up in this non-discussion...

    I look forward to more of your nonsensical ramblings from Crazytown USA... You're teetering on the edge of me laughing at your drivel and my serious concern for your mental stability. Goodness.

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    Well, that was 5 minutes of my life wasted....
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastingsChi View Post
    While no rational human being of sound mind would never bring the fabricated connection between Iraq and the September 11, 2001 attacks; you certainly found it appropriate to bring it up in this non-discussion...
    EntreNous claimed:
    Quote Originally Posted by EntreNous View Post
    most adults are able to make the mental distinction between the real world/real people and fantasy.
    So I responded:
    Quote Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
    I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. A 2003 poll which [sic] showing 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link is one notable example of this
    HastingsChi, if you have a rational basis for your contest with my example, please present it.

  12. #12
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    Kyleb I'm not going to respond as it would only throw fuel on the fire of your life passion which seems to be trolling these threads solely to: attack people who disagree with your views, raise questions which you already know the answer to, present drivel which is not related to the case and not based in logic, and, bully members like myself until you can take control of every thread and attack us until we just go away.

    It's spring now, a great time to get out of the house and take up a new hobby. If you need suggestions of potential hobbies, I'm happy to help.

  13. #13
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    I'm not attacking people who disagree with my views here, but rather attacking views which disagree with reality. Were I to start attacking people who disagree with my views, my posts would be completely different, and I can provide you a personalized example of that upon request. I've no interest in going there though, and hope you might give up on your interest in attacking me.

  14. #14
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    I think it's a major issue, the fact the JMB was targeted as a potential suspect in PL2, and the fact that they've now moved that focus to TH.

    It's a step beyond what is necessary, the killers are free after 18 years (which may be a fair sentence in a way for what happened - 3 drunken boys not quite of age, not really a planned event, although since DE was a clear ringleader, I assume if facts had been presented in a more measured and realistic way he may have served longer) so why drag someone else's name through the mud?

    I think in the producers heart of hearts they know that TH had nothing to do with this crime. That's the sad part, why? The hair was a secondary transfer, if it was his at all. He is just as much of a scapegoat as JMB was, and for what?

    Is all the money from the 'Pardon the WM3' donations being distributed evenly amongst them or is the bulk of the money going to Lori and Damien? If that is the case expect to see a huge fall out between the three of them in the years to follow. It appears that Jessie is just trying to move on with his life, I don't really expect ripples from him, but I think Jason will buck.

    In the meantime I wish they'd just drop the whole TH thing. It's not credible after spending so long on JMB for so many years and hounding him so mercilessly.

    Here's his website, with pictures of TH and Pam mucking it up for the cameras if you scroll down, clearly she doesn't believe he committed the crime.

    http://www.terryhobbs.com/
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

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    ^^^Uh, DE was SENTENCED TO DEATH! There is no "longer' sentence than dead.

    He was allowed to take the Alford Plea because the State knew it had no case.

    ***

    I don't know whether TH is guilty or not, but his are the only forensic artifacts left at the scene where the bodies were found. That automatically makes him at least a "person of interest". If he is innocent of the West Memphis killings, I don't want him falsely convicted. (And there's very little chance he will be, IMO.)

    But the man shot his brother-in-law and dumped his wife because she wouldn't get over the death of her son quickly enough. He makes a strange object of sympathy, if you ask me.

    ***

    As for the original assertion that the filmmakers of PL2 did not spend more time "investigating Mark Byers' alibi", wasn't Melissa Byers a big part of that alibi? She was dead by the time most of PL2 was made.

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