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Thread: a view from the inside: observations from our own court observers #5

  1. #1351
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    There's only one question that the jury needs to consider to determine self-defense for the afternoon of 06/04/08: Was Jodi's life in danger or did she have a reason (and it has to be reasonable and proven) to believe it was?

    She did not prove her life was in danger or she had a reasonable fear of this happening, nor did she attempt to flee (and she could have). That's it. The burden of proof was legally on her.

    Has nothing to do with TA's emails, TA's prior treatment of her or other women. Jodi failed to prove Travis was ever violent with her, she failed to prove her life was in danger, and she had at least a couple opportunities to 'escape' even if she did think her life might be in danger. Instead of leaving she was the aggressor and attacked and slaughtered TA.

    < / game over >

    The jury is ready to convict.
    Debate is healthy. Let freedom ring!

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  3. #1352
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    The 'foot' picture shows Travis bleeding profusely with the blood coming from his neck area and streaming back over his shoulder. There's only one wound that would cause that amount of bleeding in that area, and that's the huge neck wound. The M.E. on the stand indicated the same thing (neck wound is the wound that stream of blood would correspond to).

    At the point of that picture it was over for TA. His life, if not already gone, was within seconds of being gone. The next picture taken shows an even larger amount of blood streaming down his back, over his shoulder.

    62 seconds is the timeframe from a last-alive Travis to a most certainly dead or near-dead Travis. Whatever happened to take his life happened in that span, documented by pictures.
    Debate is healthy. Let freedom ring!

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  5. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    The 'foot' picture shows Travis bleeding profusely with the blood coming from his neck area and streaming back over his shoulder. There's only one wound that would cause that amount of bleeding in that area, and that's the huge neck wound. The M.E. on the stand indicated the same thing (neck wound is the wound that stream of blood would correspond to).

    At the point of that picture it was over for TA. His life, if not already gone, was within seconds of being gone. The next picture taken shows an even larger amount of blood streaming down his back, over his shoulder.
    I must disagree with you on this. The blood that is seen in this picture is not from the neck slashing wound. The blood volume is a trickle as seen in the photo. The gaping neck wound that severed both carotid arteries and both juglular veins would have sent blood shooting/spurting into the air in massive volumes. If you need to visualize the type of arterial bleeding that happens when a major artery is severed I will locate a surgical website for you. Otherwise, I'm going to rely on MHO that most individuals who are not in the medical profession will see a minor wound that is bleeding and think :OMG MASSIVE BLOOD LOSS: That is simply because most people have never seen/experienced a person with an arterial bleed. Arterial wounds can shoot blood several feet into the air if inflicted while a person is still alive (heart beating) and has sufficient blood volume left in the body (has not exsanguinated).

    I'm not trying to belittle you or say anything negative about you, Madeline74. It's just your information on the blood loss from the neck wound does not coincide with the medical known facts for an arterial bleed.

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  7. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by artsy1 View Post
    I figured that was why JM brought up the fact that JA had made 2 CASH deposits at Chase (he showed the receipts) while she was on her "road trip". I think that's also why he kept asking her how much cash she took with her (no more than $200), because I believe that close to $1,000 was deposited in cash to her 2 bank accounts.

    So where else did the cash come from on the road except from Travis?
    Quote Originally Posted by PASA View Post
    The only deposits I know of are the those made to WaMu in Salinas. I didn't know she'd also made deposits into an account at Chase Bank.

    Several of us have been wondering where she got the extra $$. There was a guy on Dr. Drew who lives in Big Sur and said he had loaned ja $$ for her trip. We think that is where she got the $$ to deposit in Salinas.
    I can't remember the amount, but 300.00 comes to mind.
    MOO MOO speculation: I think JA could have potentially had several sources of income. The fact that she keeps on hammering in the point of how poooooor she was makes me think she has a reason to cover up quite the opposite. One thing we do know about JA is that we cannot put ANYTHING past her as far as what she would do. She may have been one of those girls who did XXX webcam sex.

    Maybe this (or something like this) is what TA found out and claims he was going to expose her for?? He did make a very bold statement on his MySpace page (In one of the sections like 'who I want to be friends with', or 'about me'??) that he had zero tolerance for those types of people. IDK - unfortunately it seems all to common for men to be solicited for this kind of thing in general, BUT thought it could run a little deeper since sex solicitors do not read your account statements.



    ETA - Whoops! Realized I am off topic here in this thread! Sorry!
    In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
    - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    REST IN PEACE, TRAVIS

    Looking for information re: MA John R Whirty Pre 1967 and 1984-1985 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=201629

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  9. #1355
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    Jodi's full of it.... If the gun was really Travis's she would have taken defense team on a road trip to show him where she tossed the gun, shown him actual knife at the house and rope if there even was a rope....especially her claiming self defense two years later...

    Surprised this was not a jury question, after claiming self defense why not show someone where you stopped and got rid of gun and other items that could potentially help you out?? If its self defense??

    Also Katiecoolady agree with you always thought she did change into a ninja costume to surprise travis at first in the shower. I am one to believe some of those pics in shower he was unaware of her presence but after attack she wanted him to see her during that time at some point! Cleans up in shower and leaves... Premeditated from start to finish. The phsyo in her got her caught.....

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  11. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrannie View Post
    I must disagree with you on this. The blood that is seen in this picture is not from the neck slashing wound. The blood volume is a trickle as seen in the photo. The gaping neck wound that severed both carotid arteries and both juglular veins would have sent blood shooting/spurting into the air in massive volumes. If you need to visualize the type of arterial bleeding that happens when a major artery is severed I will locate a surgical website for you. Otherwise, I'm going to rely on MHO that most individuals who are not in the medical profession will see a minor wound that is bleeding and think :OMG MASSIVE BLOOD LOSS: That is simply because most people have never seen/experienced a person with an arterial bleed. Arterial wounds can shoot blood several feet into the air if inflicted while a person is still alive (heart beating) and has sufficient blood volume left in the body (has not exsanguinated).

    I'm not trying to belittle you or say anything negative about you, Madeline74. It's just your information on the blood loss from the neck wound does not coincide with the medical known facts for an arterial bleed.
    The ME already identified the blood on his shoulder as coming from the neck wound. It was also established that his neck was cut while he was in the area of the bedroom carpet where there was massive blood loss from the throat injury. The picture that was taken in the hallway that shows the blood on his shoulder is believed to have happened when she tried to get him back down the hallway because it was taken while he was on the tile floor and she had turned him. The last picture shows she did turn him and was dragging him back to the bathroom because you can see the corner of the closet door that leads into the bathroom along with his shoulder. Have you watched the ME's testimony from court?
    A lie will go round the world before the truth gets its pants on - Charles Spurgeon

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  13. #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrannie View Post
    I must disagree with you on this. The blood that is seen in this picture is not from the neck slashing wound. The blood volume is a trickle as seen in the photo. The gaping neck wound that severed both carotid arteries and both juglular veins would have sent blood shooting/spurting into the air in massive volumes. If you need to visualize the type of arterial bleeding that happens when a major artery is severed I will locate a surgical website for you. Otherwise, I'm going to rely on MHO that most individuals who are not in the medical profession will see a minor wound that is bleeding and think :OMG MASSIVE BLOOD LOSS: That is simply because most people have never seen/experienced a person with an arterial bleed. Arterial wounds can shoot blood several feet into the air if inflicted while a person is still alive (heart beating) and has sufficient blood volume left in the body (has not exsanguinated).

    I'm not trying to belittle you or say anything negative about you, Madeline74. It's just your information on the blood loss from the neck wound does not coincide with the medical known facts for an arterial bleed.
    You're not taking blood loss into account: The heart wound would make his blood pressure drop immediately--he was stabbed going down the hallway after that stab wound. The blood loss from the slicing of the throat was the next to last wound, according to the ME. He didn't have enough blood or blood pressure to bleed like you're describing. Check the ME's testimony.
    Justice for Officer Anthony Holly


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  15. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrannie View Post
    I must disagree with you on this. The blood that is seen in this picture is not from the neck slashing wound. The blood volume is a trickle as seen in the photo. The gaping neck wound that severed both carotid arteries and both juglular veins would have sent blood shooting/spurting into the air in massive volumes. If you need to visualize the type of arterial bleeding that happens when a major artery is severed I will locate a surgical website for you. Otherwise, I'm going to rely on MHO that most individuals who are not in the medical profession will see a minor wound that is bleeding and think :OMG MASSIVE BLOOD LOSS: That is simply because most people have never seen/experienced a person with an arterial bleed. Arterial wounds can shoot blood several feet into the air if inflicted while a person is still alive (heart beating) and has sufficient blood volume left in the body (has not exsanguinated).

    I'm not trying to belittle you or say anything negative about you, Madeline74. It's just your information on the blood loss from the neck wound does not coincide with the medical known facts for an arterial bleed.

    That's okay grannie,

    The M.E. (Kevin Horn MD) already opined on the stand about the blood coming down over TA's right shoulder in that picture and it is his opinion that it's coming from the neck wound. Since he is in the medical profession, a doctor, and happens to be the ME who examined TA's body, I'll take his word for it over Interweb posters.
    Debate is healthy. Let freedom ring!

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  17. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    That's okay grannie,

    The M.E. (Kevin Horn MD) already opined on the stand about the blood coming down over TA's right shoulder in that picture and it is his opinion that it's coming from the neck wound. Since he is in the medical profession, a doctor, and happens to be the ME who examined TA's body, I'll take his word for it over Interweb posters.
    Plus if anyone were going to challenge the ME it would have been defense and it would have been right out of the gate. So I think the only point defense is arguing with the ME is that the shot was first.
    A lie will go round the world before the truth gets its pants on - Charles Spurgeon

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  21. #1361
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    Hmm, looks like I need to go and watch the ME's testimony again before I continue with my current line of thinking. I will do that and see where my thoughts and theory change.

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  23. #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optics View Post
    I don't think she would have stopped at a campground to get rid of evidence. Even if they were deserted during June, it's too risky for her to be seen in that type of location, also too risky for her to dispose of the gun/knife in a park garbage can which is more easily searchable. I think she chose a remote location along the stretch of highway to Hoover Dam where she could tell if there was no traffic, then pulled off and buried the items or threw them into a river. The other would be she disposed of them just before the Hoover Dam checkpoint.
    Arias kept the receipts from this trip IMO as trophies or she was in her twisted mind going to use them as her alibi's or something, so if she kept the receipts is it possible she has kept the knife and gun somewhere where she knows they can be recovered as well? Just a thought.

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  25. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchenmutti View Post
    ITA. And I don't have any worries.

    Dear Jodi, Nurmi & Jenny Willmott:

    I don't care if Travis slept with more women than Hugh Hefner.
    I don't care if Travis had anal and oral sex on a daily basis with prostitutes.
    I don't care if Travis treated Jodi Arias like a street-walking prostitute.
    I don't care if Travis told Jodi Arias she was worth nothing more than her genitals.
    I don't care if Travis promised Jodi Arias he would marry her and then told her she was too much a piece of garbage for him to even be seen out in public with.

    HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE SLAUGHTERED AND LEFT TO ROT.

    Dear ALV:

    You are 20-30 years late with your "Patriarchal Terrorism" and your folksy tales of mean men and angelic women.

    You are an embarrassment to ALL women and men survivors of violence (Including me).

    Listening to a pathological liar and regurgitating her lies on the stand does not make it THE TRUTH. I makes you a MOUTHPIECE who is JUSTIFYING TRAVIS' MURDER at the hands of an ABUSER.

    No reasonable person will ever listen to you again since you're telling us that VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN BY WOMEN PERPS IS OK. It's not.

    I've been caring for my 3 young children and a husband with an intestinal virus all weekend & we were all too sick to even do Easter! I'm sick to death of the BS coming out of this trial--this "expert" and her absurd view of the world just makes me sick.

    Rant over!
    This sums up my feelings too. They will stoop to the lowest of the low to dirty his memory- how can you do this to a family who are suffering so? The worst lie that Travis was interested in young boys didn't have anything to do with her defence- that it was in self-defence. They brought it up so that the jury would be so disgusted with Travis they would find it easier to justify his death. Almost making Jodi out to be hero who took a paedophile off the streets. I really dislike Alyce, her anecdotes & folksy way of talking are calculated to bond her with the jury. Where is the 'expert' opinion the people of Arizona are paying good money for? She struck me as some 60's feminist who believed that holding a door open for a woman is a form of abuse. I wonder how much of her experience is current as much of her autobiography she recounted on the stand seemed to be quite some time ago.

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  27. #1364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchenmutti View Post
    ITA. And I don't have any worries.

    Dear Jodi, Nurmi & Jenny Willmott:

    I don't care if Travis slept with more women than Hugh Hefner.
    I don't care if Travis had anal and oral sex on a daily basis with prostitutes.
    I don't care if Travis treated Jodi Arias like a street-walking prostitute.
    I don't care if Travis told Jodi Arias she was worth nothing more than her genitals.
    I don't care if Travis promised Jodi Arias he would marry her and then told her she was too much a piece of garbage for him to even be seen out in public with.

    HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE SLAUGHTERED AND LEFT TO ROT.

    Dear ALV:

    You are 20-30 years late with your "Patriarchal Terrorism" and your folksy tales of mean men and angelic women.

    You are an embarrassment to ALL women and men survivors of violence (Including me).

    Listening to a pathological liar and regurgitating her lies on the stand does not make it THE TRUTH. I makes you a MOUTHPIECE who is JUSTIFYING TRAVIS' MURDER at the hands of an ABUSER.

    No reasonable person will ever listen to you again since you're telling us that VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN BY WOMEN PERPS IS OK. It's not.

    I've been caring for my 3 young children and a husband with an intestinal virus all weekend & we were all too sick to even do Easter! I'm sick to death of the BS coming out of this trial--this "expert" and her absurd view of the world just makes me sick.

    Rant over!
    Great post. Thanks.

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  29. #1365
    Watching HLN right now and they are showing the phone call with Flores right after the murder and I'm SO GLAD the jury has heard her lucidity with her LIES. She is so clear, so articulate, so confident. There is nothing "victim" about her or impaired in any way shape or form.
    She just comes across as the manipulative bald faced liar that she is.

    thank you for inspiring me travis alexander




    My posts are 100% my opinion with whatever bias I enjoy. Please read accordingly!
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  30. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbaxter68 View Post
    I think the gun and knife are still out there somewhere. And I think they will be found one day!
    If you all recall in the Police Interrogation with Arias, Det. Flores tells her that they have MATCHED the casing found at the scene with bullets found at the Grandparents house. Now this has NOT been brought into the trial yet, so wither Martinez is waiting til rebuttal to bring it out or Flores was just saying that to try and get a Confession out of her. I guess we will see. AS far as finding that gun, the only way to solve that mystery is to have people go out and look for it. I just hope the Defense doesn't catch wind of this search cause you know THING will just tell the Defense where it is and it's over. That gun is probably been found already by the Defense team anyhow. You know she has told someone, Matt McCartney, someone of where it is and its gone. I bet money on that.

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  32. #1367
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    katiecoolady

    I was re-watching Sky Hughes' testimony & noticed a man sitting w/the mitigation spec. He gets up w/his binder right after Sky finishes but before they recall Gus to the stand (@14:25). Sorry, I can't link on MrTDoc's stupid iPad but it's on YouTube as 'Jodi Arias Day 18 full.'

    Do you know who that is? He looks shifty to me, maybe a private investigator? Any thoughts? TIA

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  34. #1368
    Quote Originally Posted by TDoc72 View Post
    katiecoolady

    I was re-watching Sky Hughes' testimony & noticed a man sitting w/the mitigation spec. He gets up w/his binder right after Sky finishes but before they recall Gus to the stand (@14:25). Sorry, I can't link on MrTDoc's stupid iPad but it's on YouTube as 'Jodi Arias Day 18 full.'

    Do you know who that is? He looks shifty to me, maybe a private investigator? Any thoughts? TIA
    I'll take a look. Interesting you should say this as I saw a man I'd not seen before sitting there on the day Flores was on the stand and the phone call was being played...same man maybe. I didn't recognize that one. I came in to this trial a week after it had started so missed those early days.

    I'll check and get back to ya.

    thank you for inspiring me travis alexander




    My posts are 100% my opinion with whatever bias I enjoy. Please read accordingly!
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  36. #1369
    I wonder why this guy wasn't called by the prosecution? I also wonder what the "protection ritual" involved.




    "Thomas Brown, a former roommate of Travis Alexander in the home of his murder, was interviewed up to three times by Detective Flores whereby he told them that Jodi had open access to the home when he was around and the Arias he knew was completely shy and somewhat awkwardly withdrawn. He was having a hard time picturing her doing this without help and he told cops that.

    He also told them something about Travis being shocked to get the call that Jodi Arias was standing outside the home the early morning hours of June 4, 2008 and that he had been up all night performing some sort of protection rite. Brown’s information was not included in any information given to the defense and he was not even aware his name came up in the investigation by Jodi Arias herself"
    Last edited by Caylee Advocate; 04-01-2013 at 03:11 PM. Reason: typo

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  38. #1370
    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchenmutti View Post
    ITA. And I don't have any worries.

    Dear Jodi, Nurmi & Jenny Willmott:

    I don't care if Travis slept with more women than Hugh Hefner.
    I don't care if Travis had anal and oral sex on a daily basis with prostitutes.
    I don't care if Travis treated Jodi Arias like a street-walking prostitute.
    I don't care if Travis told Jodi Arias she was worth nothing more than her genitals.
    I don't care if Travis promised Jodi Arias he would marry her and then told her she was too much a piece of garbage for him to even be seen out in public with.

    HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE SLAUGHTERED AND LEFT TO ROT.

    Dear ALV:

    You are 20-30 years late with your "Patriarchal Terrorism" and your folksy tales of mean men and angelic women.

    You are an embarrassment to ALL women and men survivors of violence (Including me).

    Listening to a pathological liar and regurgitating her lies on the stand does not make it THE TRUTH. I makes you a MOUTHPIECE who is JUSTIFYING TRAVIS' MURDER at the hands of an ABUSER.

    No reasonable person will ever listen to you again since you're telling us that VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN BY WOMEN PERPS IS OK. It's not.

    I've been caring for my 3 young children and a husband with an intestinal virus all weekend & we were all too sick to even do Easter! I'm sick to death of the BS coming out of this trial--this "expert" and her absurd view of the world just makes me sick.

    Rant over!
    I couldn't agree more! I have been ranting since day one of trial. I don't care either. He did not deserve to be slaughtered the way he was. So what if she couldn't have him, couldn't control him, couldn't blackmail him, couldn't marry him? She was a whore long befor she met him. And if I offend anyone by saying that, it is the still the truth and I hope the truth wins out in this trial!

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  40. #1371
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    Any thoughts about this:

    Filing Date Description Docket Date Filing Party
    3/31/2013 MOT - Motion - Party (001) 4/1/2013
    NOTE: MOTION FOR MISTRIAL: JUROR MISCONDUCT
    3/31/2013 OBJ - Objection/Opposition. - Party (001) 4/1/2013


    http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.go...=CR2008-031021

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  42. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by indycornstalk View Post
    Arias kept the receipts from this trip IMO as trophies or she was in her twisted mind going to use them as her alibi's or something, so if she kept the receipts is it possible she has kept the knife and gun somewhere where she knows they can be recovered as well? Just a thought.
    She may have kept them for tax purposes. She went to a PPL event in Utah and was probably thinking of writing off the trip as a business expense. MOO

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  44. #1373
    Quote Originally Posted by katiecoolady View Post
    OMG you guys...I am so blown away right now I can't even barely type.

    I just got home from a quick two night getaway and checked my mail for the first time in a few days and my mail box was FILLED with notes and cards and gifts for me and more importantly the Alexander family to pass along.

    I'm so overwhelmed I haven't even really gone through them all yet. I'm just digesting the first things I saw but I had to stop and express my overwhelming gratitude. Hally, TorisMom and someone who I don't know your posting name but you are from Arkansas and shoot now the other one I don't remember your name either I'm so discombobulated right now with mind blowing gratitude.

    Thank you so much.

    The handmade bracelet with all the charms representing so many meaningful things to me with a handmade box with the inside showing a photo of my sister and I as a baby copied and affixed to the lid...ok now I'm bawling.

    I was so out of it due to the Katie Wick thing the day I left, I literally left my house for 2 nights with my front door standing open (don't worry the security screen door was locked...but DUH!). I am just getting some of these things because i rushed out so fast i didn't check mail that day either.

    I will write each of you individually too...I hope you see this. My Dad just arrived yesterday and i will show him each and every thing as well along with the beautifully heart felt letters.

    You all make my life worth living!!! xoxoxox





  45. #1374
    Quote Originally Posted by ladonna View Post
    Any thoughts about this:

    Filing Date Description Docket Date Filing Party
    3/31/2013 MOT - Motion - Party (001) 4/1/2013
    NOTE: MOTION FOR MISTRIAL: JUROR MISCONDUCT
    3/31/2013 OBJ - Objection/Opposition. - Party (001) 4/1/2013


    http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.go...=CR2008-031021
    My thoughts are:

    1. more smoke blowing

    2. if there is one juror "misconduct" that's why they have 6 alternates

    3. Nurmi is getting desperate at this stage-standard

    4. This judge is impeccable in protecting the record..all he has now is stuff going on outside the courtroom.

    5. This like all his mistrial motions, will go nowhere but could be one less thing appealed on in the decades of DP appeals she will have.

    thank you for inspiring me travis alexander




    My posts are 100% my opinion with whatever bias I enjoy. Please read accordingly!
    www.twoinnocents.wordpress.com


  46. #1375
    Quote Originally Posted by A_News_Junkie View Post


    Thank you ANJ! These are photos of an extremely thoughtful gift I received this week from a WS poster. How incredible. I'll letyou know who she is once I receive permission. Also many gifts for the family. xoxo

    thank you for inspiring me travis alexander




    My posts are 100% my opinion with whatever bias I enjoy. Please read accordingly!
    www.twoinnocents.wordpress.com


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