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Thread: General Discussion Thread #4

  1. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interested Bystander View Post
    If you use google Maps and enter Silver Lakes Golf Estate, Pretoria into the search line you will see the Estate. It takes a little while to track down his house and to show you the scale on the screen I have had to zoom out a bit but hopefully you will see the scale bar. I have marked his house and the security gate with yellow. Really it is best to use Google Maps and then you can zoom in as far as is allowed.
    OK. Thanks.
    I presume you used that GolF estate to get the scale, as he lives in SIlver Woods Estate and that Golf Estate is different.
    Is the entrance near what the map says is that photography place?

    If so,then the distance appears to be 200-300 meters.

    I aksed because I believe that at least one of the witnesses is one or more security people. At BH, what Botha first said was 600 meters, and changed to 300 meters, may be security gate people. IMO.

    Again I asked why they did not go to OP's house.

    Now it was answered that they could not know where the shot came from.

    But months ago, I posted a link-- first online from BEELD-- that security people were at his house, due to all the screaming, a couple of hours before the shooting.
    So it would have been a good assumption to call or head out there immediately at the sound of a shot.

    So again it gets curiouser and curiouser...
    Last edited by shane13; 07-02-2013 at 09:01 AM.

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  3. #852
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    so·fa
    /ˈsōfə/
    Noun
    A long upholstered seat with a back and arms, for two or more people.
    Synonyms
    couch - settee - divan - ottoman
    So IMO that armchair that others have called a "sofa" is not the sofa we are looking for or it is and it has been misnamed by the media. But the armchair was where the blood spatters were. Right? Wouldn't this have usually been in his lounge room? Was it moved? I am confused.
    Justice for Reeva Steenkamp and many others!
    _________________________________________
    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing

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  5. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by shane13 View Post
    OK. Thanks.
    I presume you used that GolF estate to get the scale, as he lives in SIlver Woods Estate and that Golf Estate is different.
    Is the entrance near what the map says is that photography place?

    If so,then the distance appears to be 200-300 meters.

    I aksed because I believe that at least one of the witnesses is one or more security people. At BH, what Botha first said was 600 meters, and changed to 300 meters, may be security gate people. IMO.

    No, I took the reference from the Guardian that he lived in the Silver Lakes Estate. You will see from anothe rmap I have uploaded that after searching for Silver Wood his house shows in exactly the same way. I did not add the scale it was on the screenshot.

    Again I asked why they did not go to OP's house.

    Now it was answered that they could not know where the shot came from.

    But months ago, I posted a link-- first online from BEELD-- that security people were at his house, due to all the screaming, a couple of hours before the shooting.
    So it would have been a good assumption to call or head out there immediately at the sound of a shot.

    So again it gets curiouser and curiouser...

    No, I took the reference from The Guardian Newspaper that he lived in the Silver Lakes Estate. There is obvious ambiguity here but you will see from another map I have uploaded that after searching for Silver Wood his house shows in exactly the same area. I did not add the scale it was on the screenshot.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013...e-south-africa

    I am sure someone heard something. At that time of night and in what I imagine is a normally quiet neighbourhood shots would ring out quite loudly. He has said that when he cannot sleep he goes to a firing range. Does anyone know where that is? If it is close by, could it be that the guards may have heard some shots and assumed it was from the firing range? That is a random guess though.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  7. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post

    A - Blood stains on the sofa

    1. The photos show no sofa under the part of the stairs without wall. So where the sofa was located if there were blood stains on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    Sofa's place seem changed...Where was it that day ? Was it another cover up ?

    Attachment 35295

    Attachment 35296
    There was a sofa in the bedroom.

    Hilton Botha: 'If you enter the bedroom and turn left you see a king size bed, and bookcases to the left of the bed, together with a couch.'

    On 17 February, City Press quoted ‘three sources close to the high-profile investigation’ - ‘The suspicion is that the first shot, in the bedroom, hit her in the hip. She then ran and locked herself in the toilet. She was doubled over because of the pain. He fired three more shots. She probably covered her head, which is why the bullet also went through her hand.’
    http://www.citypress.co.za/news/excl...against-oscar/

    In an interview broadcast by Britain’s Channel 5 on 3 June, Reeva’s mother June echoed the scenario painted by City Press. ‘She must have been so afraid in that toilet. Someone’s firing shots through the door. How terrified. Already one bullet had hit her so she must have been in severe pain also.’

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  9. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    For days I've been thinking abt Reeva's wounds on right side of her body. None of those three shots hit her on her back, front or left side but her right hip, right arm, right side of her head above her ear..Doesn't it seem very telling? Here's my scenario...possib. discussed earlier Pisto
    (kidding)

    I start to think that she was not shot in the bedroom or downstairs because ...

    BIB - 1. if she was shot downstairs from her head and/ or hip/ arm she couldn't make herself upstairs -hallway- to the bedroom then hallway again to finally the toilet.. She would slow down/fell down and he would catch her..
    2. She would prob. be hit from her back..
    3. We dont see much blood on the stairs in the leaked photos.
    4. And IMO his gun was in his box(whatever it's called) under his bed that night also where he mostly needed at nights as usual .

    IMO they were in the bedroom , quarrelling, he got the bat and chased her to the bathroom and hit her on the head just there in the bathroom
    where we see lots of blood on the floor.. her phone fell down ..She couldn't make herself to the toilet and prob was unconscious because of the strike.
    He thought of his career etc , knew she would tell everything if she survived and he dragged her to the toilet Her shorts got bloodied with the blood on the floor . He made her sit on the far side of the toilet where we see lots of pale blood from her shorts her face turning on the walll and shot her on the right side of her head intending to kill her there.

    Then made the phone calls. made up an intruder story but he had to shot her behind the door for that story fit and in 10-17 min next shots came behind the door. But the killing shot to her head was not from behind the door and that bullet didnot have wood/door etc particles on it like the other bullets and maybe its projectory wouldn't match. So that bullet to the head was taken from the scene and later told by the defence that they found a missing bullet to the head in the toilet with brain particles on it but there was no trace of any wood/ door particles anymore because it was in the toilet water.

    Meanwhile he did the breaking a few panels as if he used the bat for that and the rest comes...

    He also mentioned in the affi that he pulled her to the bathroom , left her there a dying human being and then went downstairs to open the front door to cover lots of gathering blood in the bathrom which is the real crime scene..



    Reeva Steenkamp's skull crushed during attack, South African police say
    Grieving relatives who saw body before cremation described horrific injuries
    (I don't trust the later forensic report abt the bat at all )
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-shot-her.html

    @ all - I love the very interesting theories/discussions of what might have happened


    And let me say first:

    I don't trust the reports about "a missing bullet with brain particles and blood in the toilet" on it at all.

    1. There is water inside the toilet bowl so, brain particle and blood wouldn't stick to the bullet for hours (till they found and retrieved this bullet)

    2. If there were brain particles on the bullet this would mean this shot must have been a penetrating gunshot wound. But Botha said in the bail hearing:

    Botha: I was present during [the] post-mortem. Three entrance wounds: right side of head (ear), right elbow (broke arm), hip.

    BIB
    if she was shot downstairs from her head and/ or hip/ arm she couldn't make herself upstairs -hallway- to the bedroom then hallway again to finally the toilet.. She would slow down/fell down and he would catch her..
    Concerning this you (and a good many others ) forget an important factor - called adrenaline.

    Epinephrine is also known as adrenaline.

    What role does epinephrine play in the body?
    Epinephrine is involved in the fight or flight response in humans.

    The fight or flight response occurs when a person is subject to a threat. This causes a signalling process to occur, which causes the body to react to the potential danger.


    Specifically, once a threat is perceived, a signal is sent to the brain. The brain then sends nerve impulses to the adrenal gland in the kidneys.

    When the nerve signal reaches the adrenal gland, chromaffin cells, in the medulla of the adrenal gland, release epinephrine.

    Epinephrine then enters the bloodstream. It is thus carried around the body to cells in various locations, where it initiates several responses.

    Despite initiating several different responses, epinephrine's effects have a collective purpose – to provide energy so that the major muscles of the body can respond to the perceived threat.


    Epinephrine and the heart
    Epinephrine binds to beta-adrenergic receptors on heart muscle cells. This causes the contraction rate of the heart to increase. This ultimately leads to increased blood supply to the tissues in the body.

    [This refutes the theory made by shane13 (sorry, shane13) “the heart could have been beating very arrhythmically (eg VFib) and weakly due to the brain trauma and so the weak heart could be the reason for little blood in certain areas.”]
    http://www.news-medical.net/health/W...renaline).aspx

    And in my next post I will give you some examples for what is possible if people were wounded
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  11. #856
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    Can You Be Stabbed With a Knife and Not Know it?
    http://www.lowtechcombat.com/2010/02...e-and-not.html

    Gabrielle Giffords Defies Medical Odds After Gunshot to Brain
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/News/ga...2#.UdKbuTu-2So


    Survival time and acting capability after wounding
    A suprising amount of activity is often reported following infliction of an obviously lethal injury. Many remarkable examples in the literature. Levy & Rao suggest that overall, 71% of stab wound victims and 49% of gunshot victims survive at least 5 minutes. The victim may not be aware of the injury initially. Pain is suppressed by the adrenaline response of "fight or flight" and vigorous activity may be maintained for a period of up to a few minutes when the will exists. Such activity will cease when physical factors such as blood loss lead to immobility, loss of consciousness or death.

    Main effects of injury are bleeding and shock. Will ultimately incapacitate the victim. The time taken to do so, and what actions are still possible is very difficult to estimate. Activity varies from staggering a few paces to running considerable distances or up flights of stairs. Estimation of survival period is almost impossible. Numerous variables exist. Fit young adult will survive longer and be capable of greater activity than an elderly, infirm individual. Extensive destruction of the frontal cerebral lobes of the brain may permit survival and activity before death occurs from associated brain damage and shock.

    The victim may remain alive for several hours with internal blood loss in excess of 2 litres.
    Consciousness may be maintained despite internal blood loss of 1.5 litres.
    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedi.../woundsdws.pdf

    Transabdominal gunshot wounds of the hip and pelvis.
    Transabdominal gunshot wounds (GSWs) of the hip and pelvis are those that traverse the gastrointestinal system before entering the pelvis and/or hip. These injuries may be contaminated by bowel contents. Some require urgent surgical intervention; others can be managed nonsurgically.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23637147
    We don't know

    a) where exactly the bullets hit Reeva
    b) the angle the bullets hit her body
    c) the chronological order of the shots (first, second, last)

    but all that is crucial for her activities following her injuries.


    In the first shooting today, a 24-year-old man walked into the Englewood district police station on 63rd Street after someone shot him in the hip, police said.
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ical-condition

    Police say a 19-year-old man suffered gunshot wounds in the hip and leg Monday evening in Newport News. Thurston said witnesses saw a man running to 36th Street, with gunshot wounds.
    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/crime/n...ng-33rd-street
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  13. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estelle View Post
    So IMO that armchair that others have called a "sofa" is not the sofa we are looking for or it is and it has been misnamed by the media. But the armchair was where the blood spatters were. Right? Wouldn't this have usually been in his lounge room? Was it moved? I am confused.
    I saved these photos of the "sofa-story"


    1. A sofa located under the stairs sometimes before the shooting




    2. From the leaked crime scene photos = looks like the same stairs but NO sofa located under the stairs




    3. Also from the leaked crime scene photos = Sky News (who leaked all the photos) reported this sofa was located under the stairs



    It looks like the sofa in photo 1 - doesn't it? But where it is in photo 2 if they reported it was located under the stairs? And how could there be blood spatter on the sofa if it wasn't located under the stairs?

    I am confused, too
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  15. #858
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    [quote=Estelle;9622069]

    Excellent post and I tend to agree with you but I also have some questions for you:

    *We do not know where the sofa really was that night. When the media call it a "sofa", I would call it a one-seater armchair. IMO a sofa seats 2 or 3 people like the one they were sitting on when the photos were taken of them with the monkey the week before by OP's neighbour and best friend, the Builder with the ladder. I think we have made certain suppositions based on that blood spray by trying to work out how it got there.

    *The assumption has been that she must have been down there at the beginning when the domestic violence began to account for this blood spatter. How do you account for it with your scenario?

    *The blood spatter on the walls of the stairs had to be accounted for and it appeared to me that his carrying her body down the stairs did not account for it very well.

    *We have assumed that she was not injured seriously enough downstairs and was able to go up the stairs perhaps to get her phone.

    *The violence downstairs could have begun with the cricket bat rather then the gun which was probably still upstairs.

    *Just because he usually keeps his gun or cricket bat upstairs does not mean he could not have secretly gone up to get it when he was angry with her. He could have gone up to get the bat to threaten her at first then brought it downstairs again and held it up to her as if to hit her, saying that if she did not keep quiet about whatever it was, or do whatever he wanted her to do, he would hit her with it. But she refused and he hit her. So she then ran upstairs to phone the police.

    *There had been arguing going on earlier in the night before midnight then reported and someone came to check at about 1pm I think. I imagine no violence had occurred at this stage if they had checked Reeva's welfare then.

    *But could neighbours really hear this arguing if it was done downstairs? Maybe only if the front door was open.

    *Was Reeva trying to escape so she had opened the front door ready to go. But she was so emotional that she had forgotten that her things were upstairs so she had to go up and get them first.

    *Was her car door really left and found open or not? Maybe she got to the car and only remembered her things then.

    *Can a woman then climb up the stairs after she has been bashed with a cricket bat?

    *Would being bashed with a cricket bat cause the blood spatter found on the sofa?

    *I do not really think she was going to stay the night after this argument at midnight but had earlier assumed she would (hence the call/text to the Myers about 10pm) so she had placed her things in the bedroom much earlier before they argued.

    *So she gets upstairs somehow to get her things and/or to phone either wounded or about to be.

    *OP could have even carried her up the stairs with his prosthetic legs still on if she was badly wounded or unconscious.

    *He then locks the bedroom door to either keep her captive or to prevent security guards from entering the bedroom. Maybe the front door was still left open? Or the guards might have had spare sets of his keys to get in unannounced.

    *Why did he state that the bedroom door was locked otherwise? I have often wondered the point of this.

    *If he was keeping her captive, she would still be conscious.

    *If he did not want anyone entering the bedroom, she could have been unconscious. But that would not be true as they argued again from 2-3am if neighbours reports are true. This screaming and arguing was heard because he had left the bathroom as well as the balcony doors open and was too angry to think of closing them.

    *So maybe they were in the bedroom for the first lot of arguing eg between about 11pm and 1am then it moved into the bathroom with more arguing between 2 and 3am. Reeva might have moved in there with her phone to make a call and he followed her in there with his gun in his hand to stop her.

    *Were the screams heard only before or after the first or second bullet of the first volley of three gunshots (if there were 3)? Then 17 minutes silence. No screams heard after the second volley of gunshots?

    *If so, that would be very telling and fit into your theory that Reeva was already dead in the bathroom before he fired the second volley through the door.

    *Injuries were to her right side so she might have been facing the vanity unit with her phone in her hand as he approached the bathroom. I think that was on the right side of the bathroom as we face it. He fired the shots to kill.

    *I had forgotten to add the initial cricket bat bashing in the bedroom theory to this new scenario.

    *Usually conflict escalates when you love (supposedly) someone so I am amazed that there are no defensive wounds on Reeva's body. But maybe there are and we have not been told yet or her injuries hide them. It often starts with arguing, then gets more and more physical with smashing of things too (hence I sort of believe that she might have smashed at least one of his trophies downstairs first) before you get physical with each other.

    *Only hit men can unemotionally murder someone with one gunshot so there is usually quite a lead up to murder.

    *The reason for their arguments? Who knows? We can only guess. Jealousy? Did they both have opposite sex friends? Or was OP the only one in his opinion allowed to flirt with or see other women? Or did Reeva find out a secret about OP that night that he did not want her to know in case she revealed it to others because it would affect his world-wide reputation?

    *Their conflict could have been ongoing for weeks before but Reeva thought she could resolve it with her communication skills. As he was a celebrity, she did not want to tell others about her problems with OP apparently. Little did she know who she was dealing with - a narcissistic sociopath. IMO he definitely has NPD (narcissistic personal disorder). It all began in his childhood. If you want to know more, read all of this about the narcissist's mother:
    http://samvak.tripod.com/faq64.html

    *But there is more about his past that could be relevant too. Does OP have a fear of abandonment? Having had a father who divorced your mother at age 6yo and a mother who died at age 15/16yo, that can trigger an intense fear of abandonment.

    *So what we have here is a man who, because of his narcissism, not only feels entitled to any blonde woman of his choosing, he also would feel very threatened if she chose to abandon him (before he abandoned her) due to (what I see as) his probably having this intense fear of abandonment as virtually both parents abandoned him before he became an adult.

    *If, on top of that, Reeva could have found out a secret about him during the days of their courtship, which could have threatened his worldwide popularity, sponsorships and reputation (such as taking steroids but he told her he had a plan so he could get away with it). But he pretended they are "herbal". Did she find out that he had the boxes of herbal ones there too in his drawer and the others were in his safe, for example? Of course the first thing he wanted to remove before the police got there, was these steroids. Perhaps it was not really about his financial records. Had Reeva seen him taking steroids (out of his safe) that night? Did she then decide to smash at least one of his trophies (if true) as she then believed he was a fake when she previously respected him so much?

    PS I know that Shane will not agree with this theory but IMO it is plausible and just my opinion. Otherwise why would OP choose to murder someone like Reeva who was the epitomy of love, pretend she was an intruder, risk his career in international athletics and a long jail sentence? There has to be more to it - hence the encrypted phones - perhaps.

    TXL, Estelle, for this also excellent post with your lots of very interesting and good theories
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  17. #859
    [quote=Estelle;9622069]

    Excellent post and I tend to agree with you but I also have some questions for you:

    *We do not know where the sofa really was that night. When the media call it a "sofa", I would call it a one-seater armchair. IMO a sofa seats 2 or 3 people like the one they were sitting on when the photos were taken of them with the monkey the week before by OP's neighbour and best friend, the Builder with the ladder. I think we have made certain suppositions based on that blood spray by trying to work out how it got there.

    *The assumption has been that she must have been down there at the beginning when the domestic violence began to account for this blood spatter. How do you account for it with your scenario?

    *The blood spatter on the walls of the stairs had to be accounted for and it appeared to me that his carrying her body down the stairs did not account for it very well.

    *We have assumed that she was not injured seriously enough downstairs and was able to go up the stairs perhaps to get her phone.

    *The violence downstairs could have begun with the cricket bat rather then the gun which was probably still upstairs.

    *Just because he usually keeps his gun or cricket bat upstairs does not mean he could not have secretly gone up to get it when he was angry with her. He could have gone up to get the bat to threaten her at first then brought it downstairs again and held it up to her as if to hit her, saying that if she did not keep quiet about whatever it was, or do whatever he wanted her to do, he would hit her with it. But she refused and he hit her. So she then ran upstairs to phone the police.

    *There had been arguing going on earlier in the night before midnight then reported and someone came to check at about 1pm I think. I imagine no violence had occurred at this stage if they had checked Reeva's welfare then.

    *But could neighbours really hear this arguing if it was done downstairs? Maybe only if the front door was open.

    *Was Reeva trying to escape so she had opened the front door ready to go. But she was so emotional that she had forgotten that her things were upstairs so she had to go up and get them first.

    *Was her car door really left and found open or not? Maybe she got to the car and only remembered her things then.

    *Can a woman then climb up the stairs after she has been bashed with a cricket bat?

    *Would being bashed with a cricket bat cause the blood spatter found on the sofa?

    *I do not really think she was going to stay the night after this argument at midnight but had earlier assumed she would (hence the call/text to the Myers about 10pm) so she had placed her things in the bedroom much earlier before they argued.

    *So she gets upstairs somehow to get her things and/or to phone either wounded or about to be.

    *OP could have even carried her up the stairs with his prosthetic legs still on if she was badly wounded or unconscious.

    *He then locks the bedroom door to either keep her captive or to prevent security guards from entering the bedroom. Maybe the front door was still left open? Or the guards might have had spare sets of his keys to get in unannounced.

    *Why did he state that the bedroom door was locked otherwise? I have often wondered the point of this.

    *If he was keeping her captive, she would still be conscious.

    *If he did not want anyone entering the bedroom, she could have been unconscious. But that would not be true as they argued again from 2-3am if neighbours reports are true. This screaming and arguing was heard because he had left the bathroom as well as the balcony doors open and was too angry to think of closing them.

    *So maybe they were in the bedroom for the first lot of arguing eg between about 11pm and 1am then it moved into the bathroom with more arguing between 2 and 3am. Reeva might have moved in there with her phone to make a call and he followed her in there with his gun in his hand to stop her.

    *Were the screams heard only before or after the first or second bullet of the first volley of three gunshots (if there were 3)? Then 17 minutes silence. No screams heard after the second volley of gunshots?

    *If so, that would be very telling and fit into your theory that Reeva was already dead in the bathroom before he fired the second volley through the door.

    *Injuries were to her right side so she might have been facing the vanity unit with her phone in her hand as he approached the bathroom. I think that was on the right side of the bathroom as we face it. He fired the shots to kill.

    *I had forgotten to add the initial cricket bat bashing in the bedroom theory to this new scenario.

    *Usually conflict escalates when you love (supposedly) someone so I am amazed that there are no defensive wounds on Reeva's body. But maybe there are and we have not been told yet or her injuries hide them. It often starts with arguing, then gets more and more physical with smashing of things too (hence I sort of believe that she might have smashed at least one of his trophies downstairs first) before you get physical with each other.

    *Only hit men can unemotionally murder someone with one gunshot so there is usually quite a lead up to murder.

    *The reason for their arguments? Who knows? We can only guess. Jealousy? Did they both have opposite sex friends? Or was OP the only one in his opinion allowed to flirt with or see other women? Or did Reeva find out a secret about OP that night that he did not want her to know in case she revealed it to others because it would affect his world-wide reputation?

    *Their conflict could have been ongoing for weeks before but Reeva thought she could resolve it with her communication skills. As he was a celebrity, she did not want to tell others about her problems with OP apparently. Little did she know who she was dealing with - a narcissistic sociopath. IMO he definitely has NPD (narcissistic personal disorder). It all began in his childhood. If you want to know more, read all of this about the narcissist's mother:
    http://samvak.tripod.com/faq64.html

    *But there is more about his past that could be relevant too. Does OP have a fear of abandonment? Having had a father who divorced your mother at age 6yo and a mother who died at age 15/16yo, that can trigger an intense fear of abandonment.

    *So what we have here is a man who, because of his narcissism, not only feels entitled to any blonde woman of his choosing, he also would feel very threatened if she chose to abandon him (before he abandoned her) due to (what I see as) his probably having this intense fear of abandonment as virtually both parents abandoned him before he became an adult.

    *If, on top of that, Reeva could have found out a secret about him during the days of their courtship, which could have threatened his worldwide popularity, sponsorships and reputation (such as taking steroids but he told her he had a plan so he could get away with it). But he pretended they are "herbal". Did she find out that he had the boxes of herbal ones there too in his drawer and the others were in his safe, for example? Of course the first thing he wanted to remove before the police got there, was these steroids. Perhaps it was not really about his financial records. Had Reeva seen him taking steroids (out of his safe) that night? Did she then decide to smash at least one of his trophies (if true) as she then believed he was a fake when she previously respected him so much?

    PS I know that Shane will not agree with this theory but IMO it is plausible and just my opinion. Otherwise why would OP choose to murder someone like Reeva who was the epitomy of love, pretend she was an intruder, risk his career in international athletics and a long jail sentence? There has to be more to it - hence the encrypted phones - perhaps.

    Estelle , thanks to you for yr well thought and suggestive post also

    *Right . Blood splatter on the sofa ? is a big question depending on where it was and have no idea how those splatters got there. I'm not an expert on that but those splatters are not somewhat linear drops . I mean it rather seems to me that they occurred because of kind of shot/hit not some falling drops from hair.. not sure..

    *As for blood splatters on the wall and the open front door ...

    I'm assuming that splatters on the wall might have occurred while he was carrying her downstairs.. He had opened the front door before and the Estate Manager and neighbor happened to arrive in very same moment while he was on those stairs and I think that he was somehow shaking her ,calling her Reeva dont..maybe crying and posing to save her life..as the securites rushed in. and those splatters might have occurred because of his such movements..

    *If her car door was really open,then its obvious that violence started downstairs and she tried to run away.....But I rather think the police or Botha opened her car and checked in and left the door open and someone among that crowd invented that the door was open when she was killed.

    *I'm sure he has a very very good reason for mentioning that bedroom door locked but have got no exact idea
    Last edited by MURDERER_SERVANT; 07-02-2013 at 02:55 PM.

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  19. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    I saved these photos of the "sofa-story"


    1. A sofa located under the stairs sometimes before the shooting




    2. From the leaked crime scene photos = looks like the same stairs but NO sofa located under the stairs




    3. Also from the leaked crime scene photos = Sky News (who leaked all the photos) reported this sofa was located under the stairs



    It looks like the sofa in photo 1 - doesn't it? But where it is in photo 2 if they reported it was located under the stairs? And how could there be blood spatter on the sofa if it wasn't located under the stairs?

    I am confused, too
    This sofa reminded me of neighbor's ladder..Where was the ladder that night ? was it under the bathroom window? who left it there ?

    To me , the sofa in yr 1st photo and 3rd doesn't look like each other much .. Aren't they different models ? I think the 3rd photo looks more like the one with the monkey on it as Estelle mentioned..Just an opinion..
    Last edited by MURDERER_SERVANT; 07-02-2013 at 03:24 PM.

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  21. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    This sofa reminded me of neighbor's ladder..Where was the ladder that night ? was it under the bathroom window? who left it there ?

    To me , the sofa in yr 1st photo and 3rd doesn't look like each other much .. Aren't they different models ? I think the 3rd photo looks more like the one with the monkey on it as Estelle mentioned..Just an opinion..
    The couch Laurie mentioned in the post above, the one in the bedroom on Reeva's side where her bag and slippers were placed. Could this be the couch/sofa with the blood spots in the crime scene picture. It could have been brought upstairs for sitting watching TV etc. since the same sofa with black cushion in Pisto's photo's above 1 and 3 as Pisto spotted seems to be no longer under the stairs. The commentator in the crime scene video could have got their wires crossed.
    Last edited by whiterum; 07-02-2013 at 04:07 PM.

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  23. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    @ all - I love the very interesting theories/discussions of what might have happened


    And let me say first:

    I don't trust the reports about "a missing bullet with brain particles and blood in the toilet" on it at all.

    1. There is water inside the toilet bowl so, brain particle and blood wouldn't stick to the bullet for hours (till they found and retrieved this bullet)

    2. If there were brain particles on the bullet this would mean this shot must have been a penetrating gunshot wound. But Botha said in the bail hearing:




    BIB


    Concerning this you (and a good many others ) forget an important factor - called adrenaline.




    And in my next post I will give you some examples for what is possible if people were wounded

    Very interesting ideas and articles you ve posted... You may be right with the brain tissue thing on the bullet but I still think one way or another that missing bullet was taken from the scene for being used either to cover sth or at an advantage of OP.

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  25. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    *I'm sure he has a very very good reason for mentioning that bedroom door locked but have got no exact idea

    He hasn't only one single but at the minimum 4 reasons to mention the bedroom door was locked

    1. To cover up there could be an argument/fight downstairs.

    2. To explain, Reeva only could have gone into the bathroom while he brought in the fan.

    3. To explain, why he went into the bathroom - confronting himself danger - to protect Reeva who couldn't leave the bedroom.

    4. To explain, why there was no other opportunity to deliver from danger.

    I guess, his DT was fully aware this casual remark could prevent a lot of questions.
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  27. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    The couch Laurie mentioned in the post above, the one in the bedroom on Reeva's side where her bag and slippers were placed. Could this be the couch/sofa with the blood spots in the crime scene picture. It could have been brought upstairs for sitting watching TV etc. since the same sofa with black cushion in the photo and crime scene picture seems to be no longer under the stairs. The commentator in the crime scene video could have got their wires crossed.
    Well it can be possible and if it is so it strengthens the theory of bedroom/
    bathroom / toilet triangle..

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  29. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    Very interesting ideas and articles you ve posted... You may be right with the brain tissue thing on the bullet but I still think one way or another that missing bullet was taken from the scene for being used either to cover sth or at an advantage of OP.

    I totaly agree with the BIB point
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  31. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post

    I'm sure he has a very very good reason for mentioning that bedroom door locked but have got no exact idea

    IMO it helps him explain how he almost immediately knew it could be Reeva in the toilet when she did not respond to his second call and he went back to check the bed. With the door unlocked she could have ran for help at his first call, out of the unlocked bedroom door , down the stairs , to a neighbours, anywhere. With a strong possibility that Reeva could have ran for help, he would not need to go back to the bathroom at all, since the supposed intruder could still be in the toilet.

    He could at that point just have ran out the door and looked for Reeva, phoned security,they would have been there in minutes. Security could have gotten to that toilet and on finding Reeva, given help to her sooner. All blood and bloodied items would have been contained within the toilet, Reeva would be in the position she fell, the door would be intact but IMO that would not fit the crime scene findings, would it .

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  33. #867
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    OP and media make us totally confused and our brain is spinning


    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    To me , the sofa in yr 1st photo and 3rd doesn't look like each other much .. Aren't they different models ? I think the 3rd photo looks more like the one with the monkey on it as Estelle mentioned..Just an opinion..
    The sofa with the monkey is a blue one and a totally different model


    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    The couch Laurie mentioned in the post above, the one in the bedroom on Reeva's side where her bag and slippers were placed. Could this be the couch/sofa with the blood spots in the crime scene picture. It could have been brought upstairs for sitting watching TV etc. since the same sofa with black cushion in Pisto's photo's above 1 and 3 as Pisto spotted seems to be no longer under the stairs. The commentator in the crime scene video could have got their wires crossed.
    BIB - I agree, this could be possible
    and TXL to Laurie for this info/transcript I didn't know before


    Then I remembered a re-enactment by ABC 20/20 with an image of the bedroom including the wretched sofa/couch (it was a hard search )

    But attention - this isn't the original sofa/couch because it's only a re-enactment of the scene



    more information about this re-enactment:
    http://au.businessinsider.com/heres-...lfriend-2013-3

    Unfortunately, the included link where you can watch the entire ABC 20/20 segment isn't available for all territories. So, if you can't see it, try this one (at 3:03)
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq_8XmfQ-A0"]The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius: Valentine's Day - YouTube[/ame]
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  35. #868
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    Sorry, I haven't seen there were 5 parts The above video was part 3 - here are part 1 + 2 + 4 + 5


    Part 1 (without re-enactment)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FthK6MGKNTE&list=PLo9Qa3jir1GZAj4rY-wCU-m-ZuIcwZnqs"]The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius: Blades of Glory - YouTube[/ame]


    Part 2 (without re-enactment)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FThAoxBIue4&list=PLo9Qa3jir1GZAj4rY-wCU-m-ZuIcwZnqs"]The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius: The Need for Speed - YouTube[/ame]


    Part 4 (without re-enactment)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz5yZ8ptjfg&list=PLo9Qa3jir1GZAj4rY-wCU-m-ZuIcwZnqs"]The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius: Cracks in the Case? - YouTube[/ame]


    Part 5 (with re-enactment)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL4cN305-KM&list=PLo9Qa3jir1GZAj4rY-wCU-m-ZuIcwZnqs"]The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius: 'She Died in My Arms' - YouTube[/ame]
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  37. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    OP and media make us totally confused and our brain is spinning




    The sofa with the monkey is a blue one and a totally different model




    BIB - I agree, this could be possible
    and TXL to Laurie for this info/transcript I didn't know before


    Then I remembered a re-enactment by ABC 20/20 with an image of the bedroom including the wretched sofa/couch (it was a hard search )

    But attention - this isn't the original sofa/couch because it's only a re-enactment of the scene



    more information about this re-enactment:
    http://au.businessinsider.com/heres-...lfriend-2013-3

    Unfortunately, the included link where you can watch the entire ABC 20/20 segment isn't available for all territories. So, if you can't see it, try this one (at 3:03)
    The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius: Valentine's Day - YouTube

    Was it blue ? Haahaha LOH.. really confused..

    This is a photo of bedroom taken a while before , can this be the couch
    with Reeva's bag on it ?



    Oscar Pistorius-sofa bedroom.jpg
    Last edited by MURDERER_SERVANT; 07-03-2013 at 04:56 AM.

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  39. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    I saved these photos of the "sofa-story"


    1. A sofa located under the stairs sometimes before the shooting




    2. From the leaked crime scene photos = looks like the same stairs but NO sofa located under the stairs




    3. Also from the leaked crime scene photos = Sky News (who leaked all the photos) reported this sofa was located under the stairs



    It looks like the sofa in photo 1 - doesn't it? But where it is in photo 2 if they reported it was located under the stairs? And how could there be blood spatter on the sofa if it wasn't located under the stairs?

    I am confused, too


    IMO the photo I sofa is a fold out bed / settee.

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  41. #871
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    There is also this pic taken by Andy Hooper in 2012. You can glimpse a cream sofa on the right-hand side of the pic.



    Notice that the picture on the wall of a car is the same as the picture on the wall in the leaked crime scene photo. However, the photo that shows the cream sofa has a different picture on the wall. I have no idea what this means. Just odd.

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  43. #872
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    [QUOTE=Pisto_lius;9622857]I saved these photos of the "sofa-story"


    2. From the leaked crime scene photos = looks like the same stairs but NO sofa located under the stairs




    What is that mark on the right hand side of the photo on the ceiling above the white cornice. Looks like a bullet hole with soot burn scorch marks LOL.

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  45. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by shane13 View Post
    OK. Thanks.
    I presume you used that GolF estate to get the scale, as he lives in SIlver Woods Estate and that Golf Estate is different.
    Is the entrance near what the map says is that photography place?

    If so,then the distance appears to be 200-300 meters.

    I aksed because I believe that at least one of the witnesses is one or more security people. At BH, what Botha first said was 600 meters, and changed to 300 meters, may be security gate people. IMO.

    Again I asked why they did not go to OP's house.

    Now it was answered that they could not know where the shot came from.

    But months ago, I posted a link-- first online from BEELD-- that security people were at his house, due to all the screaming, a couple of hours before the shooting.
    So it would have been a good assumption to call or head out there immediately at the sound of a shot.

    So again it gets curiouser and curiouser...
    I am not sure the security guards get paid enough to go towards the sound of live shots. Are they trained for such actions? Usually they would just be expected to call for LE and stay in their positions at the entrance gate.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

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  47. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by shane13 View Post
    OK. Thanks.
    I presume you used that GolF estate to get the scale, as he lives in SIlver Woods Estate and that Golf Estate is different.
    Is the entrance near what the map says is that photography place?

    If so,then the distance appears to be 200-300 meters.

    I aksed because I believe that at least one of the witnesses is one or more security people. At BH, what Botha first said was 600 meters, and changed to 300 meters, may be security gate people. IMO.

    Again I asked why they did not go to OP's house.

    Now it was answered that they could not know where the shot came from.

    But months ago, I posted a link-- first online from BEELD-- that security people were at his house, due to all the screaming, a couple of hours before the shooting.
    So it would have been a good assumption to call or head out there immediately at the sound of a shot.

    So again it gets curiouser and curiouser...
    I am not sure the security guards get paid enough to go towards the sound of live shots. Are they trained for such actions? Usually they would just be expected to call for LE and stay in their positions at the entrance gate.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  48. #875
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    TXL for this photo with date when it was taken

    The armchair, table/stool (?) and shelf are the same as in "my" first photo. And the sofa of which you can see only the corner in "your" photo looks also like the sofa in "my" first photo

    But now I think, armchair and this sofa are made of fabric because of folds you can see at the sofa. And it looks like the sofa with blood spatter isn't also a fabric sofa but a leather sofa because there are no folds on it and the seating surface is glossy. If the sofa with blood spatter was made of fabric the blood would be absorbed by the fabric.

    Laurie, you made an excellent observation regarding the picture on the wall of a car

    You can see the same picture - with the little wooden rack (like on "my" second photo) under it - in the background of the leaked photo that shows the other side of the stairs with blood spatter.




    So, we have the stairs from two sides with the same picture of a car, but there isn't a sofa in the leaked photo under the stair-rail side

    Because of my above thoughts about the sofa I would say we are right in our opinion that Sky News was wrong when they reported the sofa with blood spatters was located under the stairs.

    The more I think about this I believe it was located in the bedroom, directly beside the passage to the bathroom and it's this sofa where investigators found Reeva's overnight bag.
    Last edited by Pisto_lius; 07-04-2013 at 06:42 PM.
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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